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Are RUSH actually Prog?
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Catcher10 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Un Amico Un Amico wrote:

I think for me Progressive means it has to expand the boundaries and take some risks. The risk is to be commercially unsuccesful. Underground is probanly a better word for it. The tightrope walk rather than the climb up the charts. Something along those lines anyway. Does that match your thoughts in some way?

Not really, but I appreciate your expressing your thoughts on what is prog/progressive, again its just way to generalized....which is not progressive thinking.
You should really, if you have not, read up on the definitions of prog/progressive sub-genres here on PA, they are very specific and ground level.
Remember, Progressive Rock music is the umbrella and all the sub-genres fall under it. Both Rush and JTull fall under a specific sub-genre of Progressive Rock music.
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That's fine, I do not have anything against Rush and Tull are one of my favorite bands. I am surprised Todd Rundgren does not come up more often here. He is the embodiment of the Prog spirit (the way I see it) in many ways.
I ran away from home at age 13 to go and see Gentle Giant open for EL&P...I was at the Lyceum in London in 1976 for a Colosseum II gig at 3am..
and I never stopped listening since. I do have a fairly selective approach to 'Progressive' music, in my mind not all of the stuff on this page qualifies, but I do not try to stop people enjoying what they like. Guidelines are fine as every club has its rules. I understand that.
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Originally posted by The Anders The Anders wrote:

What in the world is regular rock?

There are many branches of rock music, one of them being prog...

Music that is just labelled rock and doesn't have terms like progressive attached to it.
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Originally posted by Un Amico Un Amico wrote:

I think for me Progressive means it has to expand the boundaries and take some risks. The risk is to be commercially unsuccesful. Underground is probanly a better word for it. The tightrope walk rather than the climb up the charts. Something along those lines anyway. Does that match your thoughts in some way?

...and you do also realize that JTull APP was a #1 album in the US on Billboard Pop Albums, as well only reaching #16 on UK Album Charts?? So being that APP was a commercial success not make it prog now?
Rush Moving Pictures only reached #3 in US on Billboard 200.
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Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by Un Amico Un Amico wrote:

I think for me Progressive means it has to expand the boundaries and take some risks. The risk is to be commercially unsuccesful. Underground is probanly a better word for it. The tightrope walk rather than the climb up the charts. Something along those lines anyway. Does that match your thoughts in some way?

...and you do also realize that JTull APP was a #1 album in the US on Billboard Pop Albums, as well only reaching #16 on UK Album Charts?? So being that APP was a commercial success not make it prog now?
Rush Moving Pictures only reached #3 in US on Billboard 200.

Thick as a Brick also went to #1 in the States. Every Yes album from Fragile to Tormato was in the top ten both in the States and the UK. Yes were way too poppy in that period. LOL


Edited by The Dark Elf - May 04 2021 at 11:06
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Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

I understand there are MANY artists who probably shouldn't be here. I would like to see Santana, Chicago, Steely Dan and many others kicked off the site even though i love many albums from all three.

Kick Steely Dan, change Vangelis to Crossover, and we're good! LOL

Vangelis in crossover? Why? Progressive electronic is not right for that? LOL

I wouldn't mind (better than Prog Related), but Vangelis also plays drums, bass, piano, organ, you name it. He's not just electronic.
I'd prefer The Dan and Chicago in Prog Related. 
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To make things easier, give examples of music that you listen to that you consider to be prog rock. That might help your arguments. I think that you are in the classic symphonic prog fan base.

Edited by SteveG - May 03 2021 at 21:40
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Originally posted by Un Amico Un Amico wrote:

What I said was that in a hypothetical web page that lists Prog records instead of artists, you could have TAAB and PP, two albums that helped define Prog, and maybe not the rest of JT's production, which is more Blues-based or Folk-based. Also, if for exampke Michael Buble' released a Prog album in, say, 2022, you could have that album listed on the website without having to issue Michael with a Prog artist'passport'. Rush could have their Proggier albums listed (and their poppier ones would be left out) and Threads like this one would cease to exist. I think the web sitecshould showcase Prog music rather than bands who have at some point in their career been pkaying Progressive Rock.we could have Foxtrot and Nursery Cryme here but not Invisible Touch, which makes sense when you think about it.i hope I didn't make you hold your breath for too long! I was asleep.
Right, but now we're veering into "how come PA doesn't label albums by genre as opposed to artists by genre?" territory. This is a near-identical argument. I'll let you in on the secret: despite the fact that a decent portion of members want this, it'll never happen.
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

To make things easier, give examples of music that you listen to that you consider to be prog rock. That might help your arguments. I think that you are in the classic symphonic prog fan base.

and that was 'prog' in the seventies but then people were not so obsessed with labels

ELP and Yes (71-77) because of popularity were very much up there in people's minds as 'prog'. After that certainly Genesis, Tull and Crimson were as well. The interesting case was always Pink Floyd. They were a lot less technical than those other bands to the point that I believe there was in actuality a 'Big Five' and then Floyd were just tagged on later because of lazy thinking. Rush were never called 'prog' it's true, from what I recollect, but there was an understanding that they were filling a bit of a hole left by many bands that packed up around the time of punk. I suspect that Rush were not keen to be called 'prog' anyway and were quick to divert away from it when it stopped being 'cool'! 
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

To make things easier, give examples of music that you listen to that you consider to be prog rock. That might help your arguments. I think that you are in the classic symphonic prog fan base.


and that was 'prog' in the seventies but then people were not so obsessed with labels

ELP and Yes (71-77) because of popularity were very much up there in people's minds as 'prog'. After that certainly Genesis, Tull and Crimson were as well. The interesting case was always Pink Floyd. They were a lot less technical than those other bands to the point that I believe there was in actuality a 'Big Five' and then Floyd were just tagged on later because of lazy thinking. Rush were never called 'prog' it's true, from what I recollect, but there was an understanding that they were filling a bit of a hole left by many bands that packed up around the time of punk. I suspect that Rush were not keen to be called 'prog' anyway and were quick to divert away from it when it stopped being 'cool'! 


Nah. Rush were geeks who loved prog and never cared about being hip. They just did their own thing.
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Originally posted by Un Amico Un Amico wrote:

I think for me Progressive means it has to expand the boundaries and take some risks. The risk is to be commercially unsuccesful. Underground is probanly a better word for it. The tightrope walk rather than the climb up the charts. Something along those lines anyway. Does that match your thoughts in some way?

No. 
Expand boundaries - sounds vague, but yes.
Take risks - yes.
Most bands were successful, thank God. A lot of prog albums charted. 
It was not underground. 

You forgot the two basic components of progressive music - experimentation and going way beyond the "verse-chorus-verse" pattern. 
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Jeez, we should just rename this thing "Rush Archives!" LOL

OK, they are a very good band, but I don't hear one thing from Rush that rivals "The Revealing Science of God," where Squire emulates a concert tympani by playing his fretless Guild bass guitar with a plectrum, or "Gates of Delerium," where Howe destroys his modified Telecaster for nearly 30 minutes.  I could go on.  
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Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Jeez, we should just rename this thing "Rush Archives!" LOL

OK, they are a very good band, but I don't hear one thing from Rush that rivals "The Revealing Science of God," where Squire emulates a concert tympani by playing his fretless Guild bass guitar with a plectrum, or "Gates of Delerium," where Howe destroys his modified Telecaster for nearly 30 minutes.  I could go on.  
Rush are not in my prog top ten either Charles, but I think how much or little we like them is besides the point of the thread.
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cstack3 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Jeez, we should just rename this thing "Rush Archives!" LOL

OK, they are a very good band, but I don't hear one thing from Rush that rivals "The Revealing Science of God," where Squire emulates a concert tympani by playing his fretless Guild bass guitar with a plectrum, or "Gates of Delerium," where Howe destroys his modified Telecaster for nearly 30 minutes.  I could go on.  
Rush are not in my prog top ten either Charles, but I think how much or little we like them is besides the point of the thread.

OK, what exactly is progressive about Rush?  I just don't hear it.   An AOR band like Journey has more prog cred IMHO.  Check out Schon's guitar in this song from their debut, featuring former Zappa drummer Aynsley Dunbar. 





Edited by cstack3 - May 04 2021 at 06:54
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Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Jeez, we should just rename this thing "Rush Archives!" LOL

OK, they are a very good band, but I don't hear one thing from Rush that rivals "The Revealing Science of God," where Squire emulates a concert tympani by playing his fretless Guild bass guitar with a plectrum, or "Gates of Delerium," where Howe destroys his modified Telecaster for nearly 30 minutes.  I could go on.  
Rush are not in my prog top ten either Charles, but I think how much or little we like them is besides the point of the thread.

OK, what exactly is progressive about Rush?  I just don't hear it.   An AOR band like Journey has more prog cred IMHO.  Check out Schon's guitar in this song from their debut, featuring former Zappa drummer Aynsley Dunbar. 




LOL
you call Journey AOR and then post a  song from their early period, first album, when they were not poppy. LOL
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^If you added conga drums to that and closed your eyes the first few minutes would sound exactly like Santana.
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Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

OK, what exactly is progressive about Rush?  I just don't hear it.   

Caress Of Steel and 2112 both have side long suites.
A Farewell to Kings has Xanadu - that's about as prog as it gets
Hemisphere has another side long suite and it has La Villa Strangiato - if that ain't prog I dunno what is.

Admittedly from after Moving Pictures things changed, but I would definitely consider the Caress of Steel to Permanent Waves period prog.
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Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:
OK, what exactly is progressive about Rush?  I just don't hear it.   An AOR band like Journey has more prog cred IMHO.  Check out Schon's guitar in this song from their debut, featuring former Zappa drummer Aynsley Dunbar.
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Again, your opinion is based on unfamiliarity, like the OP. You don't like Rush, so you're not going to investigate songs like this not found on the radio. This 20 minute epic is prog Charles, as good as Journey, Yes, whatever.

Edited by SteveG - May 04 2021 at 09:30
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 As many have already stated here,  in the 70's Rush produced several albums that most people would consider to be prog rock ( 2112, AFTK, Hemispheres) In the early 80's they started to streamline their music  like many other prog bands,( Yes, Genesis, ELP...)  The songs became shorter & more accessible but still had prog rock components like time signature changes (Freewill, Tom Sawyer...) or feel changes and different movements within the song ( The Camera Eye, Natural Science...)
In short they changed over the years but always incorporated elements of prog rock in their music. 
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It amazes how cstack3 makes the same early prog argument for Journey as others have done for Rush but can't see the parallels.
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