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Jethro tull is the most anti-religous, religous
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It seems that the OP made this one topic and hasn't visited the forum since.

Just saying.
"We're going to need a bigger swear jar."

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Originally posted by Sacro_Porgo Sacro_Porgo wrote:

Originally posted by Pelata Pelata wrote:

Critique, analysis, discussion...all well and good. But once you go "full Neal Morse", I'm out.


I haven't heard much Neal Morse at all. I take it the general consensus is he's too preachy?


Yeah, he's very in-your-face about it. Which is his prerogative, honestly. I just can't stomach it. It's very CCM lyrically, and I had enough of that in the 80s. Musically, he's very good...insanely talented...I adore his run with Spock's Beard. I even really liked his 'Testimony' album, because that was more the story of how he came to Christianity.

But, since then, he's gotten very "preachy", as you put it. Pretty much as preachy as any Nashville CCM scene band. It's the same reason I can't listen to John Elefante's solo stuff, even though I think his voice is pure buttered gold.
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Originally posted by Progishness Progishness wrote:

It seems that the OP made this one topic and hasn't visited the forum since.

Just saying.
A future candidate for Lazland's PA birthday thread, I dare say.

Edited by SteveG - April 23 2021 at 06:21
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Originally posted by Pelata Pelata wrote:

Originally posted by Sacro_Porgo Sacro_Porgo wrote:

Originally posted by Pelata Pelata wrote:

Critique, analysis, discussion...all well and good. But once you go "full Neal Morse", I'm out.


I haven't heard much Neal Morse at all. I take it the general consensus is he's too preachy?


Yeah, he's very in-your-face about it. Which is his prerogative, honestly. I just can't stomach it. It's very CCM lyrically, and I had enough of that in the 80s. Musically, he's very good...insanely talented...I adore his run with Spock's Beard. I even really liked his 'Testimony' album, because that was more the story of how he came to Christianity.

But, since then, he's gotten very "preachy", as you put it. Pretty much as preachy as any Nashville CCM scene band. It's the same reason I can't listen to John Elefante's solo stuff, even though I think his voice is pure buttered gold.
Oddly enough, I don't care for Neil's pro or Ian's anti religious rants, as both expend energy on a being that I doubt exists.
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Progishness Progishness wrote:

It seems that the OP made this one topic and hasn't visited the forum since.

Just saying.
A future candidate for Lazland's PA birthday thread, I dare say.


I just find it slightly puzzling.
"We're going to need a bigger swear jar."

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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Pelata Pelata wrote:

Originally posted by Sacro_Porgo Sacro_Porgo wrote:

Originally posted by Pelata Pelata wrote:

Critique, analysis, discussion...all well and good. But once you go "full Neal Morse", I'm out.


I haven't heard much Neal Morse at all. I take it the general consensus is he's too preachy?


Yeah, he's very in-your-face about it. Which is his prerogative, honestly. I just can't stomach it. It's very CCM lyrically, and I had enough of that in the 80s. Musically, he's very good...insanely talented...I adore his run with Spock's Beard. I even really liked his 'Testimony' album, because that was more the story of how he came to Christianity.

But, since then, he's gotten very "preachy", as you put it. Pretty much as preachy as any Nashville CCM scene band. It's the same reason I can't listen to John Elefante's solo stuff, even though I think his voice is pure buttered gold.
Oddly enough, I don't care for Neil's pro or Ian's anti religious rants, as both expend energy on a being that I doubt exists.


I always ask people who say "God doesn't exist" how they define God because most actually don't know. I even got the answer "I don't need to define him; he doesn't exist".


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Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Pelata Pelata wrote:

Originally posted by Sacro_Porgo Sacro_Porgo wrote:

Originally posted by Pelata Pelata wrote:

Critique, analysis, discussion...all well and good. But once you go "full Neal Morse", I'm out.


I haven't heard much Neal Morse at all. I take it the general consensus is he's too preachy?


Yeah, he's very in-your-face about it. Which is his prerogative, honestly. I just can't stomach it. It's very CCM lyrically, and I had enough of that in the 80s. Musically, he's very good...insanely talented...I adore his run with Spock's Beard. I even really liked his 'Testimony' album, because that was more the story of how he came to Christianity.

But, since then, he's gotten very "preachy", as you put it. Pretty much as preachy as any Nashville CCM scene band. It's the same reason I can't listen to John Elefante's solo stuff, even though I think his voice is pure buttered gold.
Oddly enough, I don't care for Neil's pro or Ian's anti religious rants, as both expend energy on a being that I doubt exists.


I always ask people who say "God doesn't exist" how they define God because most actually don't know. I even got the answer "I don't need to define him; he doesn't exist".


I honestly don't know whether a god (all-knowing, all-powerful, supreme, creation-being) exists at all. I just have, so far, not been given a reason to choose to believe that one does.
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Originally posted by Progishness Progishness wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Progishness Progishness wrote:

It seems that the OP made this one topic and hasn't visited the forum since.

Just saying.
A future candidate for Lazland's PA birthday thread, I dare say.


I just find it slightly puzzling.
They might be watching as we speak.
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True.
"We're going to need a bigger swear jar."

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Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

On the flip side, Neal Morse has been praising the imaginary one for 20 years.  

Always thought that was the flop side... Ermm

Hi,

I may be misinterpreting NM, but I always thought that simply quoting the "book" is not really a comment on anything ... except some idealistic thoughts, just like the Church of _____________ (name your own!) wants you to be and say, in order to collect a few coins on Sunday!

Ian, is much more "literary" in his comments, for lack of a better word, and he is no different than many writers, and artists around Europe that did the same ... although I think that at times he wanted to put forth the images but not say what he really wanted to say, to prevent direct criticism, specially from the the many folks that adhere to the Sunday thing, which would have cut a certain amount of fans ... 

The one thing that we know, is that rock music, and most pop music, has gone way beyond the church and other than a few countries where the secular law is more important than the civil law, in general, the younger fans of rock music do not exactly sit around and discuss religion ... 

I don't look at any, that I can mention right now, as anti-religious, at all ... I see a lot of comments, but the diversity is incredible.

One caution ... beware the "titles" for a piece ... the lyrics might not exactly describe what you think it is all about ... and we all end up thinking that it is this or that, and it might not be at all ... like us, there are many artists, writers and painters that are extremely clever and they can "hide" their real feelings and make us think something else ... unless you are into the kitchen/bathroom variety of mysticism that so much pulp fiction out there gives you! And you think the movie is great, of course!


Edited by moshkito - April 23 2021 at 09:22
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Originally posted by Pelata Pelata wrote:

Originally posted by Sacro_Porgo Sacro_Porgo wrote:

Originally posted by Pelata Pelata wrote:

Critique, analysis, discussion...all well and good. But once you go "full Neal Morse", I'm out.


I haven't heard much Neal Morse at all. I take it the general consensus is he's too preachy?


Yeah, he's very in-your-face about it. Which is his prerogative, honestly. I just can't stomach it. It's very CCM lyrically, and I had enough of that in the 80s. Musically, he's very good...insanely talented...I adore his run with Spock's Beard. I even really liked his 'Testimony' album, because that was more the story of how he came to Christianity.

But, since then, he's gotten very "preachy", as you put it. Pretty much as preachy as any Nashville CCM scene band. It's the same reason I can't listen to John Elefante's solo stuff, even though I think his voice is pure buttered gold.

I'm Catholic and I can't stomach most CCM either. Like, praising God is well and good and all for a variety of reasons I believe, but can't we find anything more interesting to say about such a potentially powerful topic? Also the music is usually as bland as humanly possible, actively asking its musicians to appeal to the lowest common denominator at times. At that point I just don't see how its art or entertainment, it's just sound. I was put off by the second side of Aqualung at first because of my aforementioned faith, but after getting more into Tull's other music and really giving the lyrics closer inspection, I realized that even if I disagreed with the sentiments or some of the logic I wasn't about to not listen to good art or try to understand a different perspective. 

So yeah, Aqualung is great, CCM is usually not, lol.
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Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Pelata Pelata wrote:

Originally posted by Sacro_Porgo Sacro_Porgo wrote:

Originally posted by Pelata Pelata wrote:

Critique, analysis, discussion...all well and good. But once you go "full Neal Morse", I'm out.


I haven't heard much Neal Morse at all. I take it the general consensus is he's too preachy?


Yeah, he's very in-your-face about it. Which is his prerogative, honestly. I just can't stomach it. It's very CCM lyrically, and I had enough of that in the 80s. Musically, he's very good...insanely talented...I adore his run with Spock's Beard. I even really liked his 'Testimony' album, because that was more the story of how he came to Christianity.

But, since then, he's gotten very "preachy", as you put it. Pretty much as preachy as any Nashville CCM scene band. It's the same reason I can't listen to John Elefante's solo stuff, even though I think his voice is pure buttered gold.
Oddly enough, I don't care for Neil's pro or Ian's anti religious rants, as both expend energy on a being that I doubt exists.


I always ask people who say "God doesn't exist" how they define God because most actually don't know. I even got the answer "I don't need to define him; he doesn't exist".
An agnostic like myself does not need to define God as not enough sensory information exists to provide that answer. Quite simple really.
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Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

I always ask people who say "God doesn't exist" how they define God because most actually don't know. I even got the answer "I don't need to define him; he doesn't exist".

That is an entirely appropriate answer. It is virtually impossible to define something that does not exist. Defining god is no different to defining a vampire, a werewolf or the Loch Ness Monster. There are various definitions and descriptions of these creatures, some of which are contradictory. Any of the definitions are merely subjective, as no objective construct has yet been found in reality. Any definitions are realistically only attempts to define the unknown. So there is no need to define god, if one believes he doesn’t exist. No need and and no way....
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Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

I always ask people who say "God doesn't exist" how they define God because most actually don't know. I even got the answer "I don't need to define him; he doesn't exist".


I'd say that most (if not all) atheists have a much better idea of what "God" or "NotGod" is or isn't than most religious are idolizing it withput even knowing what it is or isn't.Stern Smile

Religions believe, while atheism knows. Cool


.



Edited by Sean Trane - April 24 2021 at 05:39
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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But agnostics just don't know either way, so they avoid the belief  that no God exists. A lack of proof is not proof.

Edited by SteveG - April 24 2021 at 05:42
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Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

I always ask people who say "God doesn't exist" how they define God because most actually don't know. I even got the answer "I don't need to define him; he doesn't exist".


Do I have to hear the definition of God by billions of people before being an atheist? And, do I have to continue hearing its new definitions for eternity, so that I can never be an atheist in your eye?

This is ridiculous. We discussed this with you or Jeanine earlier. You (or she) claimed that there can actually be no atheists in the world.

I hate djent music, and I don't have to listen to all the music in that genre to be a "real" djent hater. I already am.

If you claim that there's a kind of a force that is responsible for the cosmic order and not call it a God, I might be interested.

Though, I'm an apatheist. That wouldn't influence me much. I'm only interested in scientifically proven facts in this regard.

Edited by Shadowyzard - April 24 2021 at 06:40
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Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

Amon Düül II are much more anti-religious. or maybe I should call it "blasphemous". "Dem Guten, Schönen, Wahren" from their first album "Phallus Dei" is by far the most blasphemous song I have ever heard


You haven't explored very much black metal. I would say the absolute pinnacle of anti-Christianity would go to Deathspell Omega and its intellectual journeys through Satanic theology. Of course there has always been anti-religious themes in rock music including the one you mentioned. Phallas Dei was really blasphemous for 1969, even more so than Black Sabbath's early stuff!

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Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

Amon Düül II are much more anti-religious. or maybe I should call it "blasphemous". "Dem Guten, Schönen, Wahren" from their first album "Phallus Dei" is by far the most blasphemous song I have ever heard


You haven't explored very much black metal. I would say the absolute pinnacle of anti-Christianity would go to Deathspell Omega and its intellectual journeys through Satanic theology. Of course there has always been anti-religious themes in rock music including the one you mentioned. Phallas Dei was really blasphemous for 1969, even more so than Black Sabbath's early stuff!

Black Sabbath had straight up Christian lyrics at times. Just singing about Satan doesn't make you Satanic. Depends on what you say about him.
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^ yeah, i never really considered Sabbath satanic but they seem to be viewed by some as such. Now King Diamond and Coven? Yep.

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Those of my generation viewed Sabbath as anti Satanic.
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