Has Nationalism become a bad word?

It depends on what you mean but i general the term nationalist is not something you entitle yoursself; it would no look good in a jobb resume, but where on drives the line between patriotisme, nationalisme and national soisialisme/nazisme is emotionaly difficult to do. It is all about where the emphesize is; if its culturally motivate then it's ok (according to Walter Benjamin) if it's used politicly motivated; than it becomes a negative (accoording to Walter Benjamin)

Edited by Icarium - April 12 2021 at 10:58

Icarium wrote: It depends on what you mean but i general the term nationalist is not something you entitle yoursself; it would no look good in a jobb resume, but where on drives the line between patriotisme, nationalisme and national soisialisme/nazisme is emotionaly difficult to do. It is all about where the emphesize is; if its culturally motivate then it's ok (accordikg to Walter Benjamin) if it's used politicly motivated; than it becomes a negative (accoording to Walter Benjamin)

A very good answer. I suppose many people align it into the old socialist/Nazi meaning when it's meant as an expression of patriotism. And I need to check out Walter Benjamin.

SteveG wrote: octopus-4 wrote: It has always been a bad thing for me.  Think: proud for your nation (against each other)           proud for your region (against the rest of your nation)           proud for your city (against the rest of your region) ... and so on. Does it really makes sense? Proud for your tribe, your club, your relatives, your bedroom... I am a terrestrial. This the only label that I can accept. I understand your view. However, when a football fan is for his team and against the other, is that not the same thing, as geographical regions are what's being represented by the competing teams.

I think the widespread disavowal of nationalism in Europe was a reaction to the horrors of WW2 (as was the emergence of the rather bleak world view of Existentialism) You could also argue that the fear of a recurrence of something as abhorrent as the Nazi regime was one of the pivotal driving forces behind the formation of the European Union. I've always been deeply suspicious of entreaties to national identity and pride: How much talent or virtue does it take to be born within a country's borders? People often ask me if I'm proud to be Scottish. I always answer that I've never had to fight for my country, I've never invented or created anything for the betterment of my fellow creatures and I've never represented my nation in a sporting capacity so such sentiments strike me as basking in the reflected glory of my forebears. Identity politics is one of the banes of our age and similar to how we misappropriate the idea of culture, just becomes yet another self serving ploy for those who are either unable or unwilling to articulate their own ideas.


Edited by ExittheLemming - April 12 2021 at 07:47

ExittheLemming wrote: How much talent or virtue does it take to be born within a country's borders? People often ask me if I'm proud to be Scottish? I always answer that I've never had to fight for my country, I've never invented or created anything for the betterment of my fellow creatures and I've never represented my nation in a sporting capacity so such sentiments strike me as basking in the reflected glory of our forebears.

Some good arguments worth considering.

SteveG wrote: Vompatti wrote: SteveG wrote: octopus-4 wrote: SteveG wrote: octopus-4 wrote: It has always been a bad thing for me.  Think: proud for your nation (against each other)           proud for your region (against the rest of your nation)           proud for your city (against the rest of your region) ... and so on. Does it really makes sense? Proud for your tribe, your club, your relatives, your bedroom... I am a terrestrial. This the only label that I can accept. I understand your view. However, when a football fan is for his team and against the other, is that not the same thing, as geographical regions are what's being represented by the competing teams. I'm neither a football fan, effectively. That's commendable Luca, but it doesn't answer my question. Is it not the same thing? Yes, it's the same thing. The left is not for competitive sports. I know many lefties who are Ranger's fans and love it when Canadian teams get beaten. Perhaps that's just a North American thing.

Sean Trane wrote: Nationalism has always been bad, not just for left wingers. Nationalism means often expansionism and annexations, all the while excluding those who don't belong. It is a form of narrow parochialism or isolationism.

In the UK, English nationalism is usually sensationalised to a bunch of right wing nutcases, completely forgetting the vast silent majority who are proud of their country, but feel no need whatsoever to denigrate, or fight with, other nations.

Nationalism has taken on a bad reputation recently mostly fuelled by the utopist/anarchist crowd, who look to alter/erase history (not a good thing) to suit some agenda of absolute equality and purity.  In fact, there are 2 kinds of Nationalism . First, you have offensive militaristic warrior societies who want to expand their power (such as Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan and Soviet Russia), all have been historically condemned and rightly so. 

Edited by tszirmay - April 12 2021 at 08:24