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Progressive 80’s pop / sophisti-pop
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omphaloskepsis View Drop Down
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Points: 6418 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote omphaloskepsis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2021 at 13:30
The pioneers of Shoegaze were The Jesus and Mary Chain, Ride, My Bloody Valentine, and Cocteau Twins. The Jesus and Mary Chain and Ride were more song oriented. My Bloody Valentine and Cocteau Twins relied more on textures. That said, nobody would ever mistake My Bloody Valentine for the Cocteau Twins.

     Some claim the term was coined while watching "Ride" stare at their shoes during concerts. Others say, the term was coined because the bands stood still during live performances in a detached, introspective state with their heads down. The heavy use of effects pedals meant the performers were often looking down at the readouts on their pedals...thus shoegazing.  




Edited by omphaloskepsis - March 13 2021 at 13:30
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nick_h_nz View Drop Down
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Points: 6737 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2021 at 13:56
My Bloody Valentine and Cocteau Twins were both the first bands I ever heard called dream pop, and then the first bands I ever heard called shoegaze.

I’d always read the term shoegazing came from a joke about dreampop bands spending all their time looking at their pedals.

There’s a great deal of dreampop/shoegaze that I love. - on both the rockier and poppier sides.
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SteveG View Drop Down
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Points: 20616 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2021 at 14:52
True, peddle gaze is a better name for it. Especially with Ride, as they played it up once people starting talking about it.
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Although I like many of the artists named so far aren't we really just sticking shiny new labels on very old bottles of 'Pop' here? I mean there was a thread recently on the equally spurious Zolo genre and now Sophisti-Pop?. It boils down to this: All people prefer certain Pop Music over others but elitists believe themselves too 'deep and smart' for Pop Music so the Pop Music they prefer they don't call Pop Music because Pop Music is also enjoyed by 'shallow and dumb' people ergo, the Pop Music elitists prefer is really Sophisto-Pop. This is pitiful. Pop Music doesn't have to be a pejorative term.

That said, this cranky rodent will enter into the discussion in the spirit I hope it was intended:

Stan Ridgway
the Specials and the Special A.K.A
the Colourfield
Heaven 17
China Crisis
OMD
Deacon Blue
the Style Council

Is Steven Wilson live Footgaze?




Edited by ExittheLemming - March 13 2021 at 20:37
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Points: 411 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Crane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2021 at 20:50
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

It boils down to this: All people prefer certain Pop Music over others but elitists believe themselves too 'deep and smart' for Pop Music so the Pop Music they prefer they don't call Pop Music because Pop Music is also enjoyed by 'shallow and dumb' people ergo, the Pop Music elitists prefer is really Sophisto-Pop. This is pitiful.

Said the guy on the prog rock forum LOL
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Crane View Drop Down
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Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

China Crisis

They’re wonderful. Have you heard their latest, 2015’s ‘Autumn in the Neighbourhood?’ It’s fantastic!:
“Art is the recognition of the universal presence of God.” —Ernest Hello
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Crane View Drop Down
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Points: 411 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Crane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2021 at 20:57
For those who don’t know it, Franco Battiato’s ‘La Voce del Padrone’ is certainly worth mentioning amidst the topic of progressive sophisti-pop:
“Art is the recognition of the universal presence of God.” —Ernest Hello
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Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

Although I like many of the artists named so far aren't we really just sticking shiny new labels on very old bottles of 'Pop' here? I mean there was a thread recently on the equally spurious Zolo genre and now Sophisti-Pop?. It boils down to this: All people prefer certain Pop Music over others but elitists believe themselves too 'deep and smart' for Pop Music so the Pop Music they prefer they don't call Pop Music because Pop Music is also enjoyed by 'shallow and dumb' people ergo, the Pop Music elitists prefer is really Sophisto-Pop. This is pitiful. Pop Music doesn't have to be a pejorative term.

That said, this cranky rodent will enter into the discussion in the spirit I hope it was intended:

Stan Ridgway
the Specials and the Special A.K.A
the Colourfield
Heaven 17
China Crisis
OMD
Deacon Blue
the Style Council

Is Steven Wilson live Footgaze?



From what I gather, sophisto pop is sort of an amalgamation or basket that includes both blue eyed soul and smooth jazz.  Wiki says Aztec Camera, Swing Out Sister, Simply Red, Prefab Sprout, Sade, Level 42 are all sophisto pop but that then is a very wide basket. I don't quite know why AC and Prefab Sprout should be in that group whereas I see some similarity or association between Level 42, Simply Red and SOS.  I believe the Level 42 bassist joined SOS for the latter's performance of Breakout at the Prince's Trust concert in 1989.

Whether it needed a new term is, indeed, highly debatable.  But hey, it's no worse than the millions of death metal/black metal sub genres out there which get increasingly dubious with vanishingly few differences between the sub genres. 
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Points: 411 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Crane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2021 at 21:02
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

From what I gather, sophisto pop is sort of an amalgamation or basket that includes both blue eyed soul and smooth jazz.  Wiki says Aztec Camera, Swing Out Sister, Simply Red, Prefab Sprout, Sade, Level 42 are all sophisto pop but that then is a very wide basket. I don't quite know why AC and Prefab Sprout should be in that group whereas I see some similarity or association between Level 42, Simply Red and SOS.  I believe the Level 42 bassist joined SOS for the latter's performance of Breakout at the Prince's Trust concert in 1989.

I run a sophisti-pop group on Facebook, and I’ve had this discussion a lot. I generally concur that Prefab Sprout is out of place with these other groups. Especially since Sprout’s sound is so unique and eclectic. Yet, they’re considered one of the premiere representations of the genre. Go figure!

Quote Whether it needed a new term is, indeed, highly debatable.  But hey, it's no worse than the millions of death metal/black metal sub genres out there which get increasingly dubious with vanishingly few differences between the sub genres. 

Agree! Good point!
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I haven't spent much time Shoegazing at my unpolished shoes, so I thought I'd turn my gaze onto my Sophisti-Pop CD collection instead by listing them all here:-

Basia (2 albums)
The Blow Monkeys (1 album)
Deacon Blue (7 albums)
The Divine Comedy (5 albums)
Everything But the Girl (6 albums)
Bryan Ferry (6 albums)
Julia Fordham (3 albums)
Go West (1 album)
Hothouse Flowers (1 album)
Level 42 (1 album)
Lighthouse Family (3 albums)
Prefab Sprout (6 albums)
Roxy Music (2 albums)
Rumer (4 albums)
Simply Red (8 albums)
Spandau Ballet (1 album)
Swing Out Sister (3 albums)
Tears for Fears (5 albums)
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Points: 11420 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ExittheLemming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2021 at 06:39
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

The Divine Comedy (5 albums)



Damn, forgot the inestimable talents of Mr Neil Hannon & Co. One of my favorite artists everThumbs Up
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My 2 cents worth: I always feel that artists like Ultravox, John Foxx, Magazine and Simple Minds are leaning beyond pop and straight into tinges of progland. While SM has great songs and solid albums (Real Life) , my ears always veer towards Mel Gaynor's magnificent drum style, with a big thunderous sound that gets me every time . Magazine is another oddity in that Barry Adamson's bass is upfront and in your face. John Foxx is a genius of icy mechanical pop and Ultravox has many overt progressive adornments as well as great vocals.
Second tier: Alphaville with the great voice of Marian Gold, ABC with the great voice of Martin Fry, the Fixx (the Cy Curnin and Jamie West-Oram combo), Icehouse and OMD . Many more.....

Another missing person is Tony Mansfield (master producer with Aha, Naked Eyes, Minor Detail and many others) but his band New Musik made just that: unique and original synth pop with tons of details, pings and echoes, sounding like The Korgis (A Stackridge offshoot). 




Edited by tszirmay - March 14 2021 at 09:02
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Crane View Drop Down
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tszirmay, speaking of Alphaville, I don’t enjoy everything they’ve done. They don’t seem to have a characteristic sound of their own. That said, this is a particularly interesting, progressive track:
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My Best Live drum performances:

John Bonham -Led Zep

Craig Blundell -Steve Wilson and Steve Hackett tours

Gavin Harrison- Ptree

Bill Bruford- KC- Yes and UK

Phil Collins- Genesis+ solo

Leon Ndugu Chancler- Santana

Franz di Cioccio- PFM

Mel Gaynor- Simple Minds

 
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I will pitch into the pile and say the first 5 Saga albums are excellent Sophist pop/rock, songs like Humble Stance and Dont Be Lite are slaying and the early beggings os Chapters concept. Pay atention to the guitar / keyboard unisons if Ian Crichton and Jim Gilmour

Also solo album of Roger Hodgson "In the Eye of the Storm" is majestic and impressive spessialy the last track where Roger playes the best guitar solo of hes carear.
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Roxy Music- Avalon is the lushest and most earthy album ever made
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Originally posted by Icarium Icarium wrote:

Roxy Music- Avalon is the lushest and most earthy album ever made

I SECOND THAT EMOTION !Clap
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A bit off topic, but I'm surprised that Simple Minds, Ultravox, Echo and the Bunnymen and Magazine to name a few aren't on PA as prog related. To my ears they are more 'proggy' than many who are on here.
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Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

A bit off topic, but I'm surprised that Simple Minds, Ultravox, Echo and the Bunnymen and Magazine to name a few aren't on PA as prog related. To my ears they are more 'proggy' than many who are on here.
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To be honest, I would've been surprised to find any of those four bands listed in ProgArchives, but then again, I'm constantly surprised by the non-prog artists who are included here. Smile
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Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

A bit off topic, but I'm surprised that Simple Minds, Ultravox, Echo and the Bunnymen and Magazine to name a few aren't on PA as prog related. To my ears they are more 'proggy' than many who are on here.
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To be honest, I would've been surprised to find any of those four bands listed in ProgArchives, but then again, I'm constantly surprised by the non-prog artists who are included here. Smile
The elephant in the room is the  'prog-related' category. Many of the bands there are subjectively included and imho are no more prog oriented as the ones I named. Bowie, Zep, BOC, Wishbone Ash,,,,there is nothing especially prog  related about them imho . And of course there is crossover...some there are also borderline prog.
But this is another discussion we have had many times here.Wink
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