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SteveG View Drop Down
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Points: 20604 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2021 at 13:26
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Steven Wilson ruined prog.


Nobody can ruin prog, but trust me I know exactly your sentiment here.

Wilson continues to prove all my assumptions about his personality correct, without fail.

His new music sucks and I think it's a perfect, and logical, reflection of his attitude TBQH.
Actually, this is a take off of some loony's thread on the Progressive Ears web forum titled "Phil Collins Ruined Prog". I'm afraid that this thread is as silly and uselessly negative as that one was.
I hate to make such a statement without an explanation. I have no desire to listen to Wilson's latest. But after the man made 16 prog albums in various styles with PT, and remixed over 40 prog albums by other artists and toured extensively, it's a good guess that he may actually have gotten tired of prog. It happens. Or he may like to have some commercial success. We don't know his reasons so perhaps, at this point, we can give him the benefit of the doubt. There is still 16 studio albums of prog for the die-hards to listen to with twice that many live albums and DVDS. Not exactly a prog desert.

Edited by SteveG - March 06 2021 at 13:37
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

The woman he recently married probably hates prog and is no doubt an influence on his recent pop direction and insulting prog and prog fans. Maybe.

You're blaming his wife for his recent album? And for his insulting prog fans??  
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Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

The woman he recently married probably hates prog and is no doubt an influence on his recent pop direction and insulting prog and prog fans. Maybe.


You're blaming his wife for his recent album? And for his insulting prog fans??  
I've seen a few wives brake up bands, so it's possible. Not likely, but still possible.
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

  Or he may like to have some commercial success. 

I don't think this makes much sense (of course you're not claiming it directly, but others have done so). His prog work was in fact quite commercially successful, and surely it isn't predictable that moving to more poppy music will bring better sales if you're well established in a different community. People can think of his latest albums whatever they want (and I'm not a fan), but this idea that people go away from prog not because they genuinely and for musical reasons want to do something else but rather in order to be commercially successful doesn't hold water for me. For every Genesis there are five examples where this failed miserably. I think people should stop thinking that Wilson went this direction in order to make money.
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Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

  Or he may like to have some commercial success. 

I don't think this makes much sense (of course you're not claiming it directly, but others have done so). His prog work was in fact quite commercially successful, and surely it isn't predictable that moving to more poppy music will bring better sales if you're well established in a different community. People can think of his latest albums whatever they want (and I'm not a fan), but this idea that people go away from prog not because they genuinely and for musical reasons want to do something else but rather in order to be commercially successful doesn't hold water for me. For every Genesis there are five examples where this failed miserably. I think people should stop thinking that Wilson went this direction in order to make money.
Being commercially successful does not always translate to making money. Not in the modern world of digital downloads and Spotify. It does translate to being a better known artist and that opens a lot of doors not available to a niche artist. Perhaps he'll get Brian May or Lady Gaga to perform on his next album, because he'll need wider recognition to get artists like that on board.
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

I've seen a few wives break up bands, so it's possible.

I doubt any wife is solely to blame, especially when you factor in years of frustration and bitterness within any given band. 

If anything, the wife is usually the sacrificial lamb. The easy target. The one person everyone can point to and blame because she, "said that annoying thing one time" so they don't have to blame one another.
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Steven Wilson having his head up his own arse is not shock news LOL
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^ It is clear that you - and apparently some others here - have not listened to the interview. He is not insulting his fans, nor Genesis, nor putting Abba on a pedestal. He's just saying that there is very good and sophisticated pop music out there (citing The Beatles and Abba...) and that he cannot relate to people who dismiss pop because it is pop. In the same way he can not engage with people (e.g. prog fans) who dismiss his music when it is not prog enough. That seams to me a very sane stance that every artist should take. He does what he wants to do: making music (be it prog or not).

I listened to his new album. To my ears it is rather forgettable, although one song stands out: Personal Shopper - it has an interesting Frankie Goes To Hollywood-vibe over it...
Which maybe points to something why I don't like much of his music: for me it is often a mix of styles and music that I've heard before - it lacks originality. I could never relate to PT or his solo albums. Actually, in my opinion, Steven Wilson has done his most original work with Tim Bowness under the No-Man monniker - there are a couple of No-Man albums that I really enjoy. Not always very proggy, but who cares...

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Originally posted by Spacegod87 Spacegod87 wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

I've seen a few wives break up bands, so it's possible.

I doubt any wife is solely to blame, especially when you factor in years of frustration and bitterness within any given band. 

If anything, the wife is usually the sacrificial lamb. The easy target. The one person everyone can point to and blame because she, "said that annoying thing one time" so they don't have to blame one another.
Bullsh*t. You have no idea of what you're talking about. There's quite a lot of that in this thread, so you're going in good company. I'm getting tired of trying to defend Wilson in this thread, someone I personally don't care for, while listening to nonsense from daydreamers like you. Tell me of all the artists you're familiar and worked with. I've recorded The Grateful Dead, CSNY, Blue Oyster Cult, Patti Smith, The Good Rats, Mink DeVille and many, many others. When you've had the same experience, then talk to me about artist's wives. I don't like losing my temper like this but I've had quite enough with these types of posts. Btw, I didn't say that was a paramount reason for band tensions but, occasionally, one of them.

Edited by SteveG - March 07 2021 at 08:16
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dr prog View Drop Down
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Someone doesn’t love genesis boohoohoo
They’re not in my top 5 either
All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
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Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

... His prog work was in fact quite commercially successful, and surely it isn't predictable that moving to more poppy music will bring better sales if you're well established in a different community.
...
Hi,

I have thought before that his liking some "pop music" is more about creating new material that has the usual "slick" style of a lot of pop music, which he might feel that a lot of his material (early?) probably lacked that slick'ness and cleanliness that he might have liked. The stuff he is doing now, to me, looks like an "experiment" to see how his sensibility will end up fitting into what he does ... it will probably mean that a lot of his music might reach the "prog" area, but it will have elements of "pop music". 

I have no issue with his comments about fans, and how abusive and stuck up they can be because their "favorite artist" made an album they did not like ... and when he says he doesn't have time for some people ... I'm betting that a good 90% of musicians have to say that ... !!! 

The social media aspect of the music is hurting artists and their artistry ... everyone is a critic and every one hates something and everyone likes something ... and the comments, are not (always) about the music itself ... they are just a personal choice ... which should NOT interfere with the music or the artist ... but a lot of socialistic folks don't see that at all ... 

Everyone has a right to say something, but in this day and age, there is excuse for saying something bad about someone, and instead just say forget it, and GO LISTEN TO SOMETHING ELSE!


Edited by moshkito - March 07 2021 at 20:50
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I have no issue with Steven Wilson making the current music he is making and I have no issue with him liking ABBA because I happen to think ABBA was a great band too. Personally I like his new album. More a problem that I have with Steven Wilson is that an album like Hand. Cannot Erase. which is rated so highly here loses it's luster after several playings. Maybe that's just me because I've played Future Bites about 4 times and I'm still liking it very much. Very much a personal view not shared here. I prefer To The Bone to Hand. Cannot Erase. Also prefer the middle to late period of Porcupine Tree. Albums like In Absentia and Lightbulb Sun and Stupid Dream I can come back to several years later and they still sound fresh to me.
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Bullsh*t. You have no idea of what you're talking about. There's quite a lot of that in this thread, so you're going in good company. I'm getting tired of trying to defend Wilson in this thread, someone I personally don't care for, while listening to nonsense from daydreamers like you. 

Tell me of all the artists you're familiar and worked with. I've recorded The Grateful Dead, CSNY, Blue Oyster Cult, Patti Smith, The Good Rats, Mink DeVille and many, many others. When you've had the same experience, then talk to me about artist's wives.
 I don't like losing my temper like this but I've had quite enough with these types of posts. Btw, I didn't say that was a paramount reason for band tensions but, occasionally, one of them.

Why are you getting so upset over this?
I just said it was a bit much to blame wives for breaking up a band, that's all mate...whether you agree or not, there was no need to bite my head off like that. Kind of weird..
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Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Steven Wilson ruined prog.

Nobody can ruin prog, but trust me I know exactly your sentiment here.

Wilson continues to prove all my assumptions about his personality correct, without fail.

His new music sucks and I think it's a perfect, and logical, reflection of his attitude TBQH.


<3 that comment. Perfectly encapsulates my assumptions on Steven Wilson dating back to 2004 or so
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Originally posted by Spacegod87 Spacegod87 wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Bullsh*t. You have no idea of what you're talking about. There's quite a lot of that in this thread, so you're going in good company. I'm getting tired of trying to defend Wilson in this thread, someone I personally don't care for, while listening to nonsense from daydreamers like you. 

Tell me of all the artists you're familiar and worked with. I've recorded The Grateful Dead, CSNY, Blue Oyster Cult, Patti Smith, The Good Rats, Mink DeVille and many, many others. When you've had the same experience, then talk to me about artist's wives.
 I don't like losing my temper like this but I've had quite enough with these types of posts. Btw, I didn't say that was a paramount reason for band tensions but, occasionally, one of them.

Why are you getting so upset over this?
I just said it was a bit much to blame wives for breaking up a band, that's all mate...whether you agree or not, there was no need to bite my head off like that. Kind of weird..

I've occasionally seen wives and girlfriends either being the target of other band member's interests or having an interest in other band members, which results in tensions. Why you think that this is strange is beyond me, but accept my apologies for "biting your head off". As I stated, I don't enjoy going off the handle like that but I do get annoyed when I'm continually challenged, by you and other posters, over this type of minutia that is not really germane to the discussion.

Edited by SteveG - March 08 2021 at 04:11
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Getting back to Wilson's interview, I disagree with his statement that he finds it incredulous that someone would listen to 3rd rate prog over 1st rate pop. If the pop music consists of artists like Pink and Lady Gaga, I would give both the prog and pop a pass.

Edited by SteveG - March 08 2021 at 08:28
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Spacegod87 Spacegod87 wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Bullsh*t. You have no idea of what you're talking about. There's quite a lot of that in this thread, so you're going in good company. I'm getting tired of trying to defend Wilson in this thread, someone I personally don't care for, while listening to nonsense from daydreamers like you. 

Tell me of all the artists you're familiar and worked with. I've recorded The Grateful Dead, CSNY, Blue Oyster Cult, Patti Smith, The Good Rats, Mink DeVille and many, many others. When you've had the same experience, then talk to me about artist's wives.
 I don't like losing my temper like this but I've had quite enough with these types of posts. Btw, I didn't say that was a paramount reason for band tensions but, occasionally, one of them.

Why are you getting so upset over this?
I just said it was a bit much to blame wives for breaking up a band, that's all mate...whether you agree or not, there was no need to bite my head off like that. Kind of weird..

I've occasionally seen wives and girlfriends either being the target of other band member's interests or having an interest in other band members, which results in tensions. Why you think that this is strange is beyond me, but accept my apologies for "biting your head off". As I stated, I don't enjoy going off the handle like that but I do get annoyed when I'm continually challenged, by you and other posters, over this type of minutia that is not really germane to the discussion.

Alan Niven's then wife was in an affair with Great White's Jack Russell when Al wrote Love Is A Lie, sensing that his wife was going to leave him, but not knowing who she was leaving him for, not knowing that it was the guy mouthing his own lyrics. LOL Imagine Jack singing Love Is A Lie with a straight face, likely knowing what it was about. And he sang it with a lot of feeling too. LOL
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I always felt him to be a bit of a bore and a bit up himself to be honest.
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Getting back to Wilson's interview, I disagree with his statement that he finds it incredulous that someone would listen to 3rd rate prog over 1st rate pop. If the pop music consists of artists like Pink and Lady Gaga, I would give both the prog and pop a pass.

Yeah, what good pop there is doesn't set the charts on fire anymore.  Lianne La Havas' s/t was beautiful and exactly the sort of album that is not going to go 'viral'. Tastes have been ruined beyond repair at this point by 'loudness', autotune and the Amy Winehouse staccato.
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Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

I always felt him to be a bit of a bore and a bit up himself to be honest.

Kind of a complainer/whiner vibe.  And is hilariously close minded about 80s guitar. 
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