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The Wall Movie: Good, Bad or Ugly?

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rogerthat View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2021 at 00:06
For a Floyd fan intimately familiar with the storyline of The Wall, it's brilliant. Yeah, don't know how it would translate for those unfamiliar with the material.

I particularly love the videos for In The Flesh reprise and Waiting For The Worms. Downright eerie to watch in the times we live in. It's almost like Waters knew that evil would reign again someday.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2021 at 02:10
I think the original question is a little misleading. It’s ugly, and unashamedly so. The question is, do you find its ugliness good or bad?

Listening to the album, or watching the film, it’s impossible to avoid the ugliness of the main character, and the descent into even greater ugliness as the album/film progresses - leading ultimately to The Trial.

I love the album, and honestly, as much as I enjoy the film, I think the album far surpasses the film. But I do think the film does probably the best job that is possible of translating the album to film. And Scarfe’s animation is amazing and iconic.

The ugliness of the film even extended to the making of the film, which I believe Parker, Scarfe and Waters have all said was miserable and unpleasant.

I do think the album works better for those who are already acquainted with the album, although all I have is anecdotal evidence for this. Firstly, when we watched this in class at high school, where those who knew the album found the film easier to follow and analyse than those who didn’t; and then when watching it with my wife, who had never heard the album, and found the film hard to follow.

With this in mind, it’s tempting to say it’s a bad film, as it isn’t easy on the audience, if they go in without prior knowledge. But I don’t really believe that. There are plenty of films out there, which are highly acclaimed, but can be almost impenetrable and confusing the first time one watches them. But watch a second time, and everything clicks into place, and you realise how good the film really is, and why it is so acclaimed.

For some reason, though, people who watch The Wall and don’t get it, have no interest in watching it again. And this, I think, again goes back to its intrinsic ugliness. It is an in your face ugly experience, and those who don’t get it first time around probably don’t want to be brutally subjected to hammering ugliness a second time to try and understand it better.

Personally, I think it’s a good film, because of its ugliness. The way it can create such extreme reactions from those who watch it the first time is actually a pretty good indication that there is something very good lying there under the ugly surface. And the way it gives greater reward for those who do come back for seconds (having eaten their meat first, of course. How can you have any pudding if you don’t eat your meat?) is also indicative of a good film.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2021 at 05:26
Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

I think the original question is a little misleading. It’s ugly, and unashamedly so. The question is, do you find its ugliness good or bad?

Listening to the album, or watching the film, it’s impossible to avoid the ugliness of the main character, and the descent into even greater ugliness as the album/film progresses - leading ultimately to The Trial.

I love the album, and honestly, as much as I enjoy the film, I think the album far surpasses the film. But I do think the film does probably the best job that is possible of translating the album to film. And Scarfe’s animation is amazing and iconic.

The ugliness of the film even extended to the making of the film, which I believe Parker, Scarfe and Waters have all said was miserable and unpleasant.

I do think the album works better for those who are already acquainted with the album, although all I have is anecdotal evidence for this. Firstly, when we watched this in class at high school, where those who knew the album found the film easier to follow and analyse than those who didn’t; and then when watching it with my wife, who had never heard the album, and found the film hard to follow.

With this in mind, it’s tempting to say it’s a bad film, as it isn’t easy on the audience, if they go in without prior knowledge. But I don’t really believe that. There are plenty of films out there, which are highly acclaimed, but can be almost impenetrable and confusing the first time one watches them. But watch a second time, and everything clicks into place, and you realise how good the film really is, and why it is so acclaimed.

For some reason, though, people who watch The Wall and don’t get it, have no interest in watching it again. And this, I think, again goes back to its intrinsic ugliness. It is an in your face ugly experience, and those who don’t get it first time around probably don’t want to be brutally subjected to hammering ugliness a second time to try and understand it better.

Personally, I think it’s a good film, because of its ugliness. The way it can create such extreme reactions from those who watch it the first time is actually a pretty good indication that there is something very good lying there under the ugly surface. And the way it gives greater reward for those who do come back for seconds (having eaten their meat first, of course. How can you have any pudding if you don’t eat your meat?) is also indicative of a good film.

I didn't say that ugliness is a bad thing Nick. I think that's what you assumed I meant. Ugly and terrible aspects in art help to bring out a sense of the sublime on occasion. I feel that many scenes in the movie did just that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2021 at 05:51
I caught the movie twice in first-run movie house downtown upon its initial release...

Then another three (4?) times (usually with a pot-filled head) at second-run local theatre week-end midnight seance  during the early to mid-80's - as it became a regular feature along with Zep's TSRTS, Rocky Horror, Neil Young's Rust Never Sleeps , Quadrophenia, Tommy, Let It Be and other Beatles flicks, Woodstock, Monterey and plenty other rock movies. 

I bought the DVD some 15 years ago, but never viewed it in its entirety, but I was mostly interested in the bonus features, including the Hey You sequence that was fimed, but edited and not included in the original release.

Musically I prefer the studio album or even better the live Is There Anybody? to the movie, but it's clear that the movie adds a visual dimension that can't be surpassed.

Could I view it completely another time today? maybe, but I don't have the urge , especially knowing that some passages are difficult to watch now that I'm an old cumudgeon. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mathman0806 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2021 at 06:02
I liked it, but I think the last time I saw it was almost 30 years ago and involved ingesting various things.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blacksword Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2021 at 06:07
I've not seen it for over 30 years, but I remember liking it at the time. So..Good..I guess.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2021 at 07:04
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

I didn't say that ugliness is a bad thing Nick. I think that's what you assumed I meant. Ugly and terrible aspects in art help to bring out a sense of the sublime on occasion. I feel that many scenes in the movie did just that.

No, I know you didn’t, and no, that’s not what I assume you meant, I was referring only to the question as posed (The Wall Movie: Good, Bad or Ugly?). To me, the “or” infers a sort of mutual exclusivity, and that it must be one or the other. I guess I’m not sure why you didn’t just stick with “The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly”, which gives greater recognition that these are not mutually exclusive.

I’m not suggesting I’m right, and that anyone who disagrees with me is wrong, either. For me, it’s an unashamedly ugly film, and that ugliness is largely what leads people to either decide it is good or bad, or a bit of both. 🤷🏻‍♂️

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2021 at 08:07
Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

I didn't say that ugliness is a bad thing Nick. I think that's what you assumed I meant. Ugly and terrible aspects in art help to bring out a sense of the sublime on occasion. I feel that many scenes in the movie did just that.

No, I know you didn’t, and no, that’s not what I assume you meant, I was referring only to the question as posed (The Wall Movie: Good, Bad or Ugly?). To me, the “or” infers a sort of mutual exclusivity, and that it must be one or the other. I guess I’m not sure why you didn’t just stick with “The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly”, which gives greater recognition that these are not mutually exclusive.

I’m not suggesting I’m right, and that anyone who disagrees with me is wrong, either. For me, it’s an unashamedly ugly film, and that ugliness is largely what leads people to either decide it is good or bad, or a bit of both. 🤷🏻‍♂️

I also assumed that you could have a friendly conservation about art and it's aesthetic qualities, or a lack thereof. Silly me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Heart of the Matter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2021 at 08:30
I think The Wall isn't "good" in the sense of "good nature" or "good qualities". However, there's a stirring thing about it that makes it good art, as good as a punch to the subconscious mind can be.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2021 at 08:41
Originally posted by Heart of the Matter Heart of the Matter wrote:

I think The Wall isn't "good" in the sense of "good nature" or "good qualities". However, there's a stirring thing about it that makes it good art, as good as a punch to the subconscious mind can be.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2021 at 08:53
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

[QUOTE=nick_h_nz][QUOTE=SteveG]I also assumed that you could have a friendly conservation about art and it's aesthetic qualities, or a lack thereof. Silly me.

Is that not exactly what has been happening? Until this post, I was unaware there had been anything unfriendly said? What have I said to upset you? I’ll say no more then. It seems I am perpetually misunderstood on this forum.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2021 at 10:25
Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

[QUOTE=nick_h_nz][QUOTE=SteveG]I also assumed that you could have a friendly conservation about art and it's aesthetic qualities, or a lack thereof. Silly me.

Is that not exactly what has been happening? Until this post, I was unaware there had been anything unfriendly said? What have I said to upset you? I’ll say no more then. It seems I am perpetually misunderstood on this forum.

Hmm. You being British and I American, perhaps we are separated by a comon laugage. Lol. Ok, then, I misunderstood your tone. Let's put it behind us and continue as I appreciate your posts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaldFriede Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2021 at 11:47
The movie is on par with the album. This means it is so-so.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2021 at 12:00
Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

The movie is on par with the album. This means it is so-so.
Friede, you didn't.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaldFriede Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2021 at 14:08
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

The movie is on par with the album. This means it is so-so.
Friede, you didn't.

"The Wall" has good parts and bad parts. I don't like the self-pity parts of it.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2021 at 19:35
Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

The movie is on par with the album. This means it is so-so.
Friede, you didn't.

"The Wall" has good parts and bad parts. I don't like the self-pity parts of it.
Fair enough. I can understand that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blacksword Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2021 at 03:47
Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

The movie is on par with the album. This means it is so-so.
Friede, you didn't.

"The Wall" has good parts and bad parts. I don't like the self-pity parts of it.


I agree. It's tiring after a while.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2021 at 04:34
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

The movie is on par with the album. This means it is so-so.
Friede, you didn't.

"The Wall" has good parts and bad parts. I don't like the self-pity parts of it.


I agree. It's tiring after a while.
 

Yup, the more difficult moments to endure, really.
let's just stay above the moral melee
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2021 at 08:54
Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

The movie is on par with the album. This means it is so-so.
Hi,

The film makes a lot more "sense" when the whole thing is looked at from the PF "sound effects/visual effects" that went back to the first days of David Gilmour. Thus, from a "visual" perspective, TW makes sense and is really "the end" of the possibility of doing any more with it, since it would become repetitive. Not exactly a coincidence that the group was falling apart as well.

IF, TW, as an album had been done by another band, an unknown band, without the concert history that PF already had for visual shows, no one would have cared or given a damn ... and it would be trashed for being unclear and having its story cut up in vignettes that seemed to work but its "time" element was all out of whack.


Edited by moshkito - February 17 2021 at 08:55
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2021 at 09:00
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,
Bye,
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