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Steven Wilson - The Future Bites out today
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dougmcauliffe View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

No offense, there's way better pop out there.


like what? 


It will take a long time to list that, but even the newest two Taylor Swift albums are better than the newest Steven Wilson album.


god no... 


The new Taylor Swift albums are actually pretty good. They aren’t as well produced, but they don’t make you want to pull out your hair due to the pretentiousness
The sun has left the sky...
...Now you can close your eyes
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^ we're still on that? Confused
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It's an interesting album, whoever it was that said 12 Things stands out is correct - I like the song but it is out of place.
I do think this is has been over-hyped and perhaps the concept has p*ssed people off. I've seen people complain how long they've had to wait since pre-ordering it and others don't like the change of direction.
Well, I like it, maybe not as much as Raven but I will be playing it some more. Maybe it's a bit short?

Anyway, I'm afraid it's going on the back burner for a bit as the new Lifesigns album is available for download now. Clap
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Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Nothing wrong with Taylor Swift. And there’s nothing wrong with pop. I interviewed Julia Marcell after her prog-pop album Skull Echo was released last year, and one of the things we talked about was the narrow-minded thought processes a lot of so-called progressive fans have towards pop. It’s like it’s anathema to some people if a band dare go pop - especially if they experience commercial success because of it.

As for SW, he has definitely been doing pop since the beginning. The one song that doesn’t work for me as well as the others on TFB is 12 Things, because it is so similar to songs like Lazarus from his past.



Exactly. There's nothing with pop at all. Some people will not admit to liking it, but some of it is so catchy and it stays in my head for days.

Steven Wilson doing pop since the beginning? Not quite. There are elements of his music that has been pop but he always balanced it very well from other genres. 

For me, it's not about whether it's prog or not, but whether if it was well executed. Peter Gabriel or Kate Bush, for example, made some of the best pop we'll ever hear. Steven Wilson's new album is not very well executed. In fact, I'm bitterly disappointed by it, since To the Bone was pretty good.
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Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

It's an interesting album, whoever it was that said 12 Things stands out is correct - I like the song but it is out of place.

Well, I like it, maybe not as much as Raven but I will be playing it some more. Maybe it's a bit short?

That was likely me, as it was one of the first things that struck me on first listening - just how out of place 12 Things is, I like it, but it doesn’t belong on the album.

Raven is probably my least favourite SW solo album, so TFB easily beats it for me. As to whether it is better than HCE (my favourite SW solo album until now), I’m unsure. But the fact that is even a possibility says a lot for how much I do like it.

Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

Exactly. There's nothing with pop at all. Some people will not admit to liking it, but some of it is so catchy and it stays in my head for days.

Steven Wilson doing pop since the beginning? Not quite. There are elements of his music that has been pop but he always balanced it very well from other genres. 

For me, it's not about whether it's prog or not, but whether if it was well executed. Peter Gabriel or Kate Bush, for example, made some of the best pop we'll ever hear. Steven Wilson's new album is not very well executed. In fact, I'm bitterly disappointed by it, since To the Bone was pretty good.

Well, we will have to agree to disagree. Or perhaps we even agree, but are coming at the same opinion from different directions. Steven Wilson has been doing pop since the beginning BECAUSE there are elements of his music that have been pop. It’s not so much that he has always balanced it very well from other genres, so much as that he has tried to ignore genres entirely. There has been interview after interview with Wilson over the years, where he has railed against the idea of genre, and pigeonholing any music - let alone his own - into genres.

The Future Bites is no more a pop album than anything else Steven Wilson has done. I’m not even convinced Steven Wilson would be capable of writing a pop album, as that would require him to stick to just one genre, and the tropes of only that genre. He’s not done so, so far, and I don’t expect to zee him do so anytime soon.

This album perhaps has more overt pop elements at times, but as I’ve already stated, those elements have been there since the beginning. 🤷🏻‍♂️
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It can be tough to talk pop music on this site, it for sure is not in the normal DNA of a hardline prog music fan. The Taylor Swift cover is fine, he likes the song the beat the structure I'm sure and the topic obviously, so I can't judge him or find any reason to fault him for covering one of the most popular singers of the past 10yrs.

Going deeper, it makes sense if SW is trying to reach a different audience than just the furrowed browed 50yr old prog music fan who can't stand at a concert anymore LOL. Lets face it, pop music is where the money is at and SW now is married with a built in family and dog so wage and salary and benefits is now a concern for him....Phil Collins was not able to afford a US$30million water front estate in Miami from just the sales of Foxtrot or SEBTP, no no.
Even if him covering Taylor's song does not get him a duet down the road with her, but maybe some kind of work on her albums as a producer or engineer or studio musician, that would get his name out there even more, let's not forget SW is in his early 50's, I'm sure he'd like his big pay day soon.

I really don't have a problem with the direction he is going musically, but I am not a big fan of the social msg tone of TFB.

I will always listen to his music and go to his concerts, the songs have a deeper pleasure when heard live with the musicians he puts on stage.
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I don't think Mr Wilson is hurting for money....he's allegedly worth many millions of pounds/dollars....
and if the music is good like many have said that's what counts.
The new lp doesn't appeal to me this time around but the next one might. 
One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
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Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

I don't think Mr Wilson is hurting for money....he's allegedly worth many millions of pounds/dollars....
and if the music is good like many have said that's what counts.
The new lp doesn't appeal to me this time around but the next one might. 

If so then that is better to me, money wise. 100% what he is doing is for himself and expression......
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Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

It can be tough to talk pop music on this site, it for sure is not in the normal DNA of a hardline prog music fan. The Taylor Swift cover is fine, he likes the song the beat the structure I'm sure and the topic obviously, so I can't judge him or find any reason to fault him for covering one of the most popular singers of the past 10yrs.

Going deeper, it makes sense if SW is trying to reach a different audience than just the furrowed browed 50yr old prog music fan who can't stand at a concert anymore LOL. Lets face it, pop music is where the money is at and SW now is married with a built in family and dog so wage and salary and benefits is now a concern for him....Phil Collins was not able to afford a US$30million water front estate in Miami from just the sales of Foxtrot or SEBTP, no no.
Even if him covering Taylor's song does not get him a duet down the road with her, but maybe some kind of work on her albums as a producer or engineer or studio musician, that would get his name out there even more, let's not forget SW is in his early 50's, I'm sure he'd like his big pay day soon.

I really don't have a problem with the direction he is going musically, but I am not a big fan of the social msg tone of TFB.

I will always listen to his music and go to his concerts, the songs have a deeper pleasure when heard live with the musicians he puts on stage.

This is totally correct. He's trying to reach a different demographic than the fans he cultivated before with Porcupine Tree and his previous solo records. 

I also don't have a problem with him going pop, but I do have a problem with him putting out sub-standard pop instead of putting out something a bit more thoughtful. That is something that Steven Wilson has put out before many times and it's a shame that he decided to drop the ball with this record.


Edited by King of Loss - February 01 2021 at 11:29
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listening to it the third time through.

the more i listen to it the more pissed off i am.

i may have just bought my last steven wilson album.
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When he started releasing the singles for this album I thought I might actually not bother with it... or at least give it a good listen online before deciding what to do. Now I saw them posted again, and I thought it was not so bad... still, not as great as other stuff he has released, but I might still find something to enjoy from it... I guess I'll just have to listen to it a little bit more.
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Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

It can be tough to talk pop music on this site, it for sure is not in the normal DNA of a hardline prog music fan. The Taylor Swift cover is fine, he likes the song the beat the structure I'm sure and the topic obviously, so I can't judge him or find any reason to fault him for covering one of the most popular singers of the past 10yrs.

Going deeper, it makes sense if SW is trying to reach a different audience than just the furrowed browed 50yr old prog music fan who can't stand at a concert anymore LOL. Lets face it, pop music is where the money is at and SW now is married with a built in family and dog so wage and salary and benefits is now a concern for him....Phil Collins was not able to afford a US$30million water front estate in Miami from just the sales of Foxtrot or SEBTP, no no.
Even if him covering Taylor's song does not get him a duet down the road with her, but maybe some kind of work on her albums as a producer or engineer or studio musician, that would get his name out there even more, let's not forget SW is in his early 50's, I'm sure he'd like his big pay day soon.

I really don't have a problem with the direction he is going musically, but I am not a big fan of the social msg tone of TFB.

I will always listen to his music and go to his concerts, the songs have a deeper pleasure when heard live with the musicians he puts on stage.

This is totally correct. He's trying to reach a different demographic than the fans he cultivated before with Porcupine Tree and his previous solo records. 

I also don't have a problem with him going pop, but I do have a problem with him putting out sub-standard pop instead of putting out something a bit more thoughtful. That is something that Steven Wilson has put out before many times and it's a shame that he decided to drop the ball with this record.
What seems to be the main issue, with the songs I have heard on YT as I have not received my LP yet from across the pond, is that the "pop hook" is missing. Pop music has a hook or a pop riff, if you prefer, and I don't hear that and maybe other songs have it. So yea writing a great pop song is really hard, something prog fans don't give enough credit on....we think a 20 min song is brilliant but a pop song only needs 3-4min to get the point across. 
I think if SW continues down this pop rabbit hole, he may need 2-3 more albums to get it and possibly different musicians. I certainly doubt many prog fans will give him that much space......or he will be treated like Phil Collins post Gabriel era.

If anything, I'm glad he is pushing himself to try and make music he really likes (Prince, ABBA, Tears For Fears), it's not easy.
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

No offense, there's way better pop out there.

like what? 

Everything Everything?
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I've got to say that I actually had some expectations about Wilson going pop, as he was able to come up with some pretty good and catchy melodies in the old days. I didn't like the Raven and thought that concentrating more on being catchy and direct could help him. Unfortunately neither TTB nor what I've heard up to now from The Future Bites achieves that in my ears. Of course whether a poppy thing hooks me or not is quite subjective, but as opposed to those whose expectations were low, I am actually kind of disappointed.

Listen to Everything Everything really if you want good quality catchy art pop.


Edited by Lewian - February 02 2021 at 04:35
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Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

No offense, there's way better pop out there.

like what? 

Everything Everything?

aren't they more alternative rock than pop?
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

No offense, there's way better pop out there.

like what? 

Everything Everything?

aren't they more alternative rock than pop?

I tend to think that such categorisations are not that meaningful, but of course I committed to one when responding to you, so I can't complain that you come up with this...
I only can say they're great and catchy. I ultimately don't have much business putting them in the "right box". What I can say is that all the time I listen to Future Bites I think I'd rather listen to EE.


Edited by Lewian - February 02 2021 at 04:33
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Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

No offense, there's way better pop out there.

like what? 

Everything Everything?

aren't they more alternative rock than pop?

I tend to think that such categorisations are not that meaningful, but of course I committed to one when responding to you, so I can't complain that you come up with this...
I only can say they're great and catchy. I ultimately don't have much business putting them in the "right box". What I can say is that all the time I listen to Future Bites I think I'd rather listen to EE.

that's fine
A while ago I got into trouble in a conversation here about what is pop music (and what's not I guess LOL). 
So I'll stop here. Big smile
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Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

No offense, there's way better pop out there.

like what? 

It will take a long time to list that, but even the newest two Taylor Swift albums are better than the newest Steven Wilson album.

god no... 

I used to one of those close-minded people until I branched beyond progressive rock and progressive metal. There's lots of good music out there and the newest two Taylor Swift albums are actually pretty good. Aaron from the National co-wrote those songs and he is an excellent songwriter. I used to think Taylor Swift was utter trash and the two newest albums have convinced me otherwise. I think while she is not a fantastic musician, her newest two records are at least decent. Why would Steven Wilson cover her latest song from Folklore? Embarrassed

I do not listen exclusively to prog (rock and metal) and I listen to all sorts of music, but I will never be able to enjoy some one like Swift. And I tried a little bit. Plus you hear her music without ever wanting to as well. Dead

Then try her two newest records if you are truly open-minded. It is way different than anything she has released. 



LOLLOL
I just listened to this song, and it is easily better than anything on the new album.  
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There's an unreal amount of great pop of course, but some from the last 5 years off the top of my head:

(Not all of these are strictly pop, but it is def a key genre in the overall sound)

Fiona Apple - Fetch the Bolt Cutters
Radiohead - Moon Shaped Pool
Weyes Blood - Titanic Rising
MGMT - Little Dark Age
Lana Del Ray - Norman f**king Rockwell!
Currents - Tame Impala
The Weeknd - After Hours
King Gizzard - Paper Mache Dream Balloon 
Gorillaz - Song Machine

and yes, those two Taylor Swift albums
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Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

There's an unreal amount of great pop of course, but some from the last 5 years off the top of my head:

(Not all of these are strictly pop, but it is def a key genre in the overall sound)

Fiona Apple - Fetch the Bolt Cutters
Radiohead - Moon Shaped Pool
Weyes Blood - Titanic Rising
MGMT - Little Dark Age
Lana Del Ray - Norman f**king Rockwell!
Currents - Tame Impala
The Weeknd - After Hours
King Gizzard - Paper Mache Dream Balloon 
Gorillaz - Song Machine

and yes, those two Taylor Swift albums

That Tame Impala album is so f**king good, but most of those records are pretty good.
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