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Marillion's Brave: A Classic or Overblown Mess?
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Points: 12810 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2021 at 20:50
Well, after a while seeing how well rated it is, along with Marbles, I finally goth them both... sort of. I got a few live albums that included both albums in their whole. I was actually disappointed... I don't remember that much, but there wasn't so much to enjoy from them. I think Neverland comes Marbles... now, that song I do love.
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Of all the crazy stuff I've delved into, I've still yet to do so with Marillion.

"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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Originally posted by Prog-jester Prog-jester wrote:

Originally posted by Prog-jester Prog-jester wrote:

both could've been decent 40-45 mins long LPs
yeah, I know, concepts and all, but look:

"Living with the Big Lie" – 6:46
"Runaway" - 4:40
"Goodbye to All That" – 12:26
"Alone Again in the Lap of Luxury" – 8:13
"Brave" – 7:54
"The Great Escape" – 6:29

&

"The Invisible Man" – 13:37
"Fantastic Place" – 6:12
"The Damage" – 4:35
"Angelina" – 7:42
"Drilling Holes" – 5:11
"Neverland" – 12:10
bonus: "Ocean Cloud" – 17:58

I could hear it. But Brave would be missing Made Again, so it would still be incomplete.
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Brave is one of the best Marillion albums. Marbles is elevator music.
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Originally posted by someone_else someone_else wrote:

Marbles is elevator music.

must be some very cool elevators you've been in, Marbles is playing there... 
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Marilliion just aren't for me. Their music sounds like 'prog by numbers' to my ears.
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Originally posted by Ronstein Ronstein wrote:

Marilliion just aren't for me. Their music sounds like 'prog by numbers' to my ears.

I keep seeing the expression "prog by numbers", I don't know what it means exactly, just that is used negatively. 
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Ronstein Ronstein wrote:

Marilliion just aren't for me. Their music sounds like 'prog by numbers' to my ears.

I keep seeing the expression "prog by numbers", I don't know what it means exactly, just that is used negatively. 

It comes from the 'painting by numbers' books that used to be around (and probably still are). It implies creating by formula (or recipe, if that makes more sense) rather than chucking a load of ingredients in and seeing what happens, then picking out the best.

https://lovebyletterbox.co.uk/products/personalised-paint-by-numbers-canvas?currency=GBP&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&utm_campaign=gs-2020-07-17&utm_source=google&utm_medium=smart_campaign&gclid=Cj0KCQiA3smABhCjARIsAKtrg6Jp0RmvFhLDbZELK26ye12O9c-tiXtefcAxkq9p3lziaU1jxgZQXjsaAs1kEALw_wcB&variant=32776602386514
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Originally posted by Ronstein Ronstein wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Ronstein Ronstein wrote:

Marilliion just aren't for me. Their music sounds like 'prog by numbers' to my ears.

I keep seeing the expression "prog by numbers", I don't know what it means exactly, just that is used negatively. 

It comes from the 'painting by numbers' books that used to be around (and probably still are). It implies creating by formula (or recipe, if that makes more sense) rather than chucking a load of ingredients in and seeing what happens, then picking out the best.

https://lovebyletterbox.co.uk/products/personalised-paint-by-numbers-canvas?currency=GBP&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&utm_campaign=gs-2020-07-17&utm_source=google&utm_medium=smart_campaign&gclid=Cj0KCQiA3smABhCjARIsAKtrg6Jp0RmvFhLDbZELK26ye12O9c-tiXtefcAxkq9p3lziaU1jxgZQXjsaAs1kEALw_wcB&variant=32776602386514



well then, it's a worse insult than I thought and i disagree. 
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:


well then, it's a worse insult than I thought and i disagree. 

It's not an insult, and it's just my opinion. Plenty of bands, especially the more commercially driven ones (and those forced to by record companies or circumstances) set out to create music for a specific market. Not everyone has the inspiration or the freedom to create whatever they want.
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I'm not a fan of Marillion with Hogarth; I detest his singing


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Points: 45602 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 28 2021 at 03:58
Originally posted by Ronstein Ronstein wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:


well then, it's a worse insult than I thought and i disagree. 

It's not an insult, and it's just my opinion. Plenty of bands, especially the more commercially driven ones (and those forced to by record companies or circumstances) set out to create music for a specific market. Not everyone has the inspiration or the freedom to create whatever they want.

how are Marillion commercial? 
Specific market? What's Marillion's market? They have some of the most loyal fans, and that's about it. 

They have their own label, they went away from EMI who tried to control them and have their own small label. So yeah, they've been doing whatever they wanted since being on their own. 
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^true that
Originally posted by Ronstein Ronstein wrote:

Their music sounds like 'prog by numbers' to my ears
lol, that's probably because literally hundreds of bands followed their sound. It's like disliking The Beatles because you heard Oasis first
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Originally posted by Prog-jester Prog-jester wrote:

^true that
Originally posted by Ronstein Ronstein wrote:

Their music sounds like 'prog by numbers' to my ears
lol, that's probably because literally hundreds of bands followed their sound. It's like disliking The Beatles because you heard Oasis first

Nope, I'm an oldie, I heard it all in date order Wink
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I think Brave is a classic. Unlike a lot of other concept albums, I don't think it comes anywhere near close to being overblown. From the Hogarth era, I still think Afraid of Sunlight is their best album and I'm sure I'm a minority opinion on that. 
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Not a classic, but "overblown mess" might be a bit strong. It's okay and it has its moments, but it doesn't come close to Misplaced Childhood or Clutching at Straws.
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Originally posted by someone_else someone_else wrote:

Brave is one of the best Marillion albums. Marbles is elevator music.

Well, if you want to put it in these terms I think both are elevator music. I never understood the hype around Brave (or Marbles), because I too think it's a bit dull, too gently meandering music. I prefer Afraid of Sunlight or Marillion.com over these (maybe less prog, but more to my liking...). They did some other good albums afterwards, but none really excelled, to my ears, regarding previous work.


Edited by suitkees - January 28 2021 at 10:50

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Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

Originally posted by someone_else someone_else wrote:

Brave is one of the best Marillion albums. Marbles is elevator music.

Well, if you want to put it in these terms I think both are elevator music. I never understood the hype around Brave (or Marbles), because I too think it's a bit dull, too gently meandering music. I prefer Afraid of Sunlight or Marillion.com over these (maybe less prog, but more to my liking...). They did some other good albums afterwards, but none really excelled, to my ears, regarding previous work.

what hype? Where? I wanna see it. I'd be happy to see people talking positively about Marillion for once. 

I don't think there is a worse insult for someone's music than calling it "elevator music". 
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About prog by numbers...
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Ronstein Ronstein wrote:

It's not an insult, and it's just my opinion. Plenty of bands, especially the more commercially driven ones (and those forced to by record companies or circumstances) set out to create music for a specific market. Not everyone has the inspiration or the freedom to create whatever they want.

how are Marillion commercial? 
Specific market? What's Marillion's market? They have some of the most loyal fans, and that's about it. 

They have their own label, they went away from EMI who tried to control them and have their own small label. So yeah, they've been doing whatever they wanted since being on their own. 

I agree with Cristi here. Marillion has never been about "prog by numbers". They have always gone their own way and generated a diverse fan-base. Some prefer Fish-era, others Hogarth-era, some (like me) like both, but not necessarily everything they produce.
The formulaic prog-approach, I hear it in many modern prog bands, but Marillion really have their own distinctive style and sound, also thanks to some very recognizable musicians and singer (which could be at the same time my critique on the band that they didn't sufficiently evolve over time, but that's another discussion...).

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Points: 9050 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote suitkees Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 28 2021 at 11:07
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

Originally posted by someone_else someone_else wrote:

Brave is one of the best Marillion albums. Marbles is elevator music.

Well, if you want to put it in these terms I think both are elevator music. I never understood the hype around Brave (or Marbles), because I too think it's a bit dull, too gently meandering music. I prefer Afraid of Sunlight or Marillion.com over these (maybe less prog, but more to my liking...). They did some other good albums afterwards, but none really excelled, to my ears, regarding previous work.

what hype? Where? I wanna see it. I'd be happy to see people talking positively about Marillion for once. 

I don't think there is a worse insult for someone's music than calling it "elevator music". 

When Marbles came out, it was considered by many (and I remember the reviews on DPRP, especially) as a masterpiece. That raises expectations, which,, in my case were not fulfilled with this album.

BTW, there is some very good elevator music out there, but regarding Marillion I was expecting (and hoping for) something more energetic and diverse within one and the same album. In that sense, and for me, I think neither Brave nor Marbles are delivering that.


Edited by suitkees - January 28 2021 at 11:10

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