Covid-19 and the madness of crowds

The Doctor wrote: rogerthat wrote: I do know of two persons from my circle of acquaintances who lost a parent to covid. And that's in person acquaintances.  From those I know online, one other person said he lost his father to covid.  So it happens.  And I am not an agent of Deep State or on the payroll of Build Back Better or Great Reset.  I just happen to know of it, that's all. So your not knowing of any such cases personally doesn't prove anything one way or the other, other than that it's likewise not necessary you know somebody who died in a car crash this year even though many more die from it than they did of covid.  You're absolutely right.  It doesn't prove anything one way or the other.  Nor was I claiming it did.  I'll be the first to tell you that lack of proof does not equal proof of lack.  You must know me from other posts, although I post rarely here, as I didn't mention the Deep State, Build Back Better or Great Reset, although I don't like the Deep State or the Build Back Better nonsense.  Perhaps my objection to government, establishment overreach pointed you in that direction.  The biggest conspiracy theory of all is that the government has our best interests at heart.

The Doctor wrote: rogerthat wrote: I do know of two persons from my circle of acquaintances who lost a parent to covid. And that's in person acquaintances.  From those I know online, one other person said he lost his father to covid.  So it happens.  And I am not an agent of Deep State or on the payroll of Build Back Better or Great Reset.  I just happen to know of it, that's all. So your not knowing of any such cases personally doesn't prove anything one way or the other, other than that it's likewise not necessary you know somebody who died in a car crash this year even though many more die from it than they did of covid.  You're absolutely right.  It doesn't prove anything one way or the other.  Nor was I claiming it did.  I'll be the first to tell you that lack of proof does not equal proof of lack.  You must know me from other posts, although I post rarely here, as I didn't mention the Deep State, Build Back Better or Great Reset, although I don't like the Deep State or the Build Back Better nonsense.  Perhaps my objection to government, establishment overreach pointed you in that direction.  The biggest conspiracy theory of all is that the government has our best interests at heart.

There's nothing that I can add to Chester's (The Doctor) last line. That says it all.

The Doctor wrote: At this point in my life, I pretty much trust nothing I hear third hand from the media.  But I do know a few people who have had Covid.  And it's pretty unpleasant from the people I know who have had it.  But I don't know anyone who died from it.  That said, on the few occasions I leave my house (once a week, me and the old lady go grocery shopping and that's about it), I do wear a mask and try to keep my distance from others, and fuss at my wife if she doesn't have her mask on right.  I work from home, so I don't need to worry about getting it at work (everyone I know who had it either got it from work or got it from a family member who got it at work).  And having multiple cats and being allergic to cats, I wash my hands almost OCD anyway.  But I'm generally of the live and let live variety, with a few exceptions.  If someone's not wearing a mask, it really isn't my business.  Unless they get up in my face and start coughing on me.  Then there's a problem.  But I don't like the government overreach on this.  Crashing the economy in the name of public safety just doesn't work for me, nor does government mandating what people wear or don't wear on their faces.  And I really don't like governments calling for people to turn each other in for gathering or not wearing a mask.  That just strikes me as too much USSR or Nazi Germany for my taste.  As for how they count Covid deaths, I've heard multiple things and I don't know what to believe on that. Whatever is going on with that, I think governments of the west are using it as an opportunity to seize power that they have no business seizing.

Another opinion that I'll throw out is that the state governments that have done the exact opposite of what Trump mandated as far as no masks, no shutdowns, etc., was absolutely the right thing to do. Please remember that Trump didn't give a rat's ass about the health of US citizens, so any opposing positions to the man that advocated ingesting bleach and Lysol was, at the time, the right thing to do. That may not carry over now, but was correct at the time.

Lewian wrote: The Doctor wrote:   Crashing the economy in the name of public safety just doesn't work for me, nor does government mandating what people wear or don't wear on their faces. What is flawed about this is the idea that the economy would be less crashed without governments taking action. Obviously some people would be in a better situation to earn a living at times of severe lockdown measures, but surely letting infection numbers go through the roof isn't exactly a good incentive to do business. We better try to get them down and control them so that people are encouraged to go out and buy, eat out, and go to concerts without fear.

Good point from Lewian here, not much could be worse for the economy than a lot of sick people with hospital bills and a long period of being too sick to work.
As I mentioned before, it does not matter to me what the government does or does not mandate, I know what to do to keep myself safe and I wish others did the same. From what I read on local social media, there are still too many who do not know how to stop spreading this.

One more thing about businesses. Covid shut down my business of 30 years entirely. With much time consuming difficulty I built a new business using Zoom and the internet. I make %60 of what I used to make but its enough. I'm sorry, but if people want to keep the economy rolling, they may have to get busy and learn some new methods.

Edited by Easy Money - December 26 2020 at 07:05

The Doctor wrote: ....... As for how they count Covid deaths, I've heard multiple things and I don't know what to believe on that. Whatever is going on with that, I think governments of the west are using it as an opportunity to seize power that they have no business seizing.

lazland wrote: dr wu23 wrote: The Doctor wrote: ....... As for how they count Covid deaths, I've heard multiple things and I don't know what to believe on that. Whatever is going on with that, I think governments of the west are using it as an opportunity to seize power that they have no business seizing.  Er,...how exactly are these governments of the west 'seizing power thay they have no business seizing'? These are the rules in Wales for Christmas Day. Just one day. https://gov.wales/making-christmas-bubble-friends-and-family  There is an extremely powerful argument, in my opinion, that such micromanagement of citizens lives is utterly inappropriate, and I assume an example of what the Good Doctor was stating.

Unfortunately Steve, if governments did nothing then they would be branded as criminals. How and where does one when draw the line?

Edited by SteveG - December 26 2020 at 10:02

Blimey, I had to put on my thinking cap on as this is probably the first time that I've seen the word apposite used in a post in any forum.   Yes, I agree about the whole micromanagement farce. At least in the States we're given suggestions  that are much more vague, such as staying home for the holidays and not having crowds over 10 people, etc. I always felt that it was due to either laziness or lack of thinking on the part of our government moderators, which I now feel is a blessing.

Edited by SteveG - December 26 2020 at 10:32

That's an excellent point. What does the government get out of it? Very little. This is quite different from the social restrictions or mind control that one finds in Orwell's 1984. That type of micro managing had a purpose.

yeah that's my argument against the deep state conspiracy theory.   I suppose there are people in power who would like to exert more control over the populace but for the most part I think they just want the easy money and kickbacks, though I'm sure some really do want to serve and legitimately welcome the opportunity to make a positive difference in a crisis.  Every time I saw the Governor of Massachusetts talking about COVID it seemed clear to me that, while he wasn't abrogating, he would never have signed up for a second term if he knew about a looming pandemic.   Trump is an example of one who wanted to be president for every wrong reason.  Even now, while he could legitimately be claiming credit for the speed of vaccine development even as his negligence and secrecy doomed hundreds of thousands, he doesn't seem to even care about it, like he has long since moved on and has no interest in seeing anything through.