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What’s your biggest gripe with the top 100 |
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M27Barney 
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Joined: November 09 2006 Location: Swinton M27 Status: Offline Points: 3136 |
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 Posted: April 23 2020 at 01:18 |
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I have a few Radiohead CDs. I have spun them a couple of times to see what the appeal is...I think they are well produced but bland... but I think that some people who love them HAVE to say they are prog...but, even though I dont like discontinous thinking, I think they are crossover....just...
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geekfreak
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Joined: June 21 2013 Location: Musical Garden Status: Offline Points: 9872 |
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Posted: April 23 2020 at 05:59 |
I`m not a huge fanboy by along way but the albums I have got are amazing albums imho theses are "The Bends, Ok Computer, A Kid and Rainbow albums" as for being Prog/Crossover doesn't matter to me its just a MUSIC to me!
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Friedrich Nietzsche: "Without music, life would be a mistake."
Music Is Live Two people are better off than one, for they can help each other succeed. Keep Calm And Listen To The Music… < |
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richardh
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Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 27956 |
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Posted: April 24 2020 at 00:20 |
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Radiohead 'Progressive' or 'Prog'? I think the latter up until Ok Computer then Kid A was a massive change. Quite a stunning album that maintains the idea of progressive music by not sounding like anything else. If we embrace this then it should top 100. |
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KingCrimson250
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Joined: October 29 2008 Status: Offline Points: 573 |
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Posted: April 25 2020 at 11:24 |
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I think people will always be dissatisfied by the top 100 because these lists, by nature, highlight points of commonality. If I say my favourite albums are Hybris, Birds of Fire, and CTTE, and you say your favourite albums are Eros, Images and Words, and CTTE, and that person over there says their favourite albums are Anabelas, Moonmadness, and CTTE, then collectively our #1 top album is CTTE, even though we all ranked it at #3.
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joels344
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Joined: April 22 2020 Location: Nashville, TN Status: Offline Points: 9 |
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Posted: April 28 2020 at 13:09 |
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I'd say Dream Theater, Pain of Salvation, Opeth, Steven Wilson/Porcupine Tree, and Tool are my biggest gripes. Also, Rock Bottom by Robert Wyatt should be ranked much higher.
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jiminyCrikett
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Joined: March 05 2018 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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Posted: April 29 2020 at 08:30 |
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The fact that Images & Words is on this list is a travesty, even though I would have Scenes higher than it is!
A big exclusion for me is BBT - the underfall yard and english electric pt. 1 are absolute prog masterpieces
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Cristi
Special Collaborator 
Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Online Points: 43518 |
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Posted: April 29 2020 at 08:41 |
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My biggest gripe is that this thread keeps getting resurrected.
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dougmcauliffe
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Joined: February 23 2019 Location: US Status: Offline Points: 3895 |
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Posted: April 29 2020 at 08:56 |
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Why do people hate prog metal so much? I'm not the biggest pain of salvation fan, but bands like Opeth, Riverside and Dream Theater (in the early days) were a natural progression in progressive music. Opeth in particular really resonates because it's really some of the most extreme music i've heard, while still managing to have a grip on great melody and structure. I'm really starting to agree with Grumpyprogfan, I don't get how people can still listen to the same albums for years upon years and not accept changes in music and genres overtime. Yeah, I love close to the edge, foxtrot, DSOTM etc, but these albums have been talked about the death. I love hearing new challenging music that'll knock my socks off if I give it time. Seeing people in this thread pretty much saying that the top 100 should have no music made in the past 30 years in it is really making me scratch my head.
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The sun has left the sky...
...Now you can close your eyes |
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Grumpyprogfan
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Joined: July 09 2019 Location: Kansas City Status: Offline Points: 11555 |
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Posted: April 29 2020 at 09:08 |
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judahbenkenobi
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Posted: October 28 2020 at 17:48 |
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I STILL can't believe Wobbler's "From Silence to Somewhere" is ahead of any albums by ELP, Tangerine Dream, Dream Theater, Frank Zappa, Porcupine Tree, Marillion, Riverside, or ANY good album by ANY given band. And believe me, I keep listening to it with the most open mind I can, and STILL can't get to like it.
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judahbenkenobi
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Posted: October 28 2020 at 17:51 |
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^^And the way things are going, Wobbler's most recent album is on the way to the top also!
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dougmcauliffe
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Posted: October 28 2020 at 18:05 |
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I think From Silence to Somewhere is better than Close to the Edge tbh, should be top 20, the fact that there's a mere two albums from the last 30 years in the top 40 is so silly and laughable.
One omission i've come to realize recently is Death's Symbolic, that sh*t is fantastic and the definitive Tech Death Metal album.
Edited by dougmcauliffe - October 28 2020 at 18:12 |
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The sun has left the sky...
...Now you can close your eyes |
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wiz_d_kidd
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Posted: October 29 2020 at 10:09 |
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Curious about the whole ranking algorithm, I looked up an old thread from July 2005 (http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8462&PN=1&TPN=1) to understand it better. The thread appears to be closed now. Basically, it calculates a QWR value for each album: QWR = (NR + nr)/(N+n) where: r = the albums weighted average rating, n = the number of ratings for that album, R = the average rating across all albums in the database, N = the average number of ratings for all albums in the database. In the Top 100, you can see the values of r, n, and QWR for each album. Using CTTE (at #1 as of 10/29/2020) for example, r=4.67, n=4536, and QWR = 4.6546. They don't show the values of R or N, but they can be calculated from any pair of albums. I used the first (#1) and last (#100) to avoid round off error to get R=3.88 and N=87.7. With some more math, you can determine the criteria for YOUR FAVORITE ALBUM to make it onto the list, or to be at the top of the list. Given an average rating for your selected album, the number of reviews must satisfy: n >= (QWRmin - R)N/(r-QWRmin) >= 0 Right now, the #100 album has a QWRmin = 4.1887. Using the known values of R and N previously determined, your album must satisfy: n >= 27/(r - 4.1887) >= 0 just to make it onto the list. Notice that an average rating less than 4.1887 (i.e. QWRmin) it will NEVER make it onto the list, no matter how many reviews it gets! Let's say it's rating is slightly greater than 4.1887, say 4.2. It would take 27/(4.2-4.1887) = 2389 ratings to make it into the Top 100. To make it to the very top, your selected album must satisfy: n >= 68/(r - QWRmax) >= 0, where QWRmax is the QWR rating for the #1 album, currently 4.655. If the average rating is less than 4.655, it'll never make it to #1 (unless the current #1 drops in ranking). With an average rating of 4.7, it would take 68/(4.7 - 4.655) = 1511 ratings to get to #1. So if your favorite album isn't ranked where you would like to see it, it is because its ratings (r) and number of ratings (n) don't satisfy the above inequalities. I'm not saying this algorithm is good or bad, just that it is what it is. To paraphrase MikeEnRegalia from the 2005 thread... "Albums with only one rating start at the total average (R) and slowly
work their way up or down the chart as the number of ratings (n) increases.
The more ratings an album has, the more it's computed average (QWR) matches
the "real" average (r) ... the less ratings (n) an album has, the closer the
weighted average (QWR) "sticks" to the total average (R)." Or put another away, every album starts at the average R=3.88, and it takes sufficient number of votes to pull it up or down in the ranking. That sufficient number is given by the math above. If the algorithm has changed since 2005 and no longer obeys the mathematics I've described above then (to quote Emily Litella on Saturday Night Live)... "NEVER MIND". BRING OUT YOUR VOTES! Disclaimer: All of the example values (R, N, QWR, etc) used above are time-sensitive. Any time after 10/29/2020, all of these values will have changed, so don't take them as gospel.
Edited by wiz_d_kidd - November 11 2020 at 06:55 |
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Cristi
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Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Online Points: 43518 |
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Posted: October 29 2020 at 10:26 |
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my biggest gripe is that this thread exists and keeps getting resurrected.
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Psychedelic Paul
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Joined: September 16 2019 Location: Nottingham, U.K Status: Online Points: 39936 |
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Posted: October 29 2020 at 10:50 |
I have three Radiohead CD's too, but I've never thought of them as a prog band, until I arrived here. Radiohead have always been an Alternative Rock band to me, but I'm still glad they're here on ProgArchives. The more the merrier in my opinion.
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Nogbad_The_Bad
Forum & Site Admin Group
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl & Eclectic Team Joined: March 16 2007 Location: Boston Status: Offline Points: 20843 |
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Posted: October 29 2020 at 11:03 |
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If its good enough for Rick Wakeman it's good enough for me.
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Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
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Awesoreno
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Joined: October 07 2019 Location: Culver City, CA Status: Offline Points: 3036 |
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Posted: October 29 2020 at 17:32 |
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Alternatively, you could make a plan with others and have everyone rate a highly ranked album at one star to shift the dynamic, haha. Hypothetically, of course.
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anoopanunya
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Joined: June 12 2020 Location: new york Status: Offline Points: 44 |
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Posted: October 30 2020 at 10:02 |
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No gripe here. However I am a bit confused to see Tarkus not on there, or Brain Salad for that matter. Surely thats more iconic to prog than Billy Cobham, right? Also I love seeing my Camel ranked so highly. It’s all opinion though, albeit many opinions combined into 1.
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Cristi
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Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Online Points: 43518 |
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Posted: October 30 2020 at 10:09 |
that top 100 is not someone's personal opinion, is the overall rating of albums. ELP's debut is 4.23 top 100 ends with 4.24 that's a close one.
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Grumpyprogfan
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Posted: November 11 2020 at 06:24 |
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Why is Wobbler's Dwellers of the Deep currently the 51st best PA prog album ever? It was released less than two weeks ago. It has 150 ratings and is rated higher than those with 2000 ratings. Decent album but no way better than those ranked lower. This is my big gripe with the PA top 100. Laughable.
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M27Barney wrote: