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lazland 
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 Posted: October 22 2020 at 11:10 |
 Easy Money wrote:
Re Lazland (again): Yes, suppress, that is the goal. Prolonged lockdown is not an option. Rampant poverty and social unrest would be worse than Covid.
Yes, the media loves to dramatize and exaggerate this, it doesn't help. My doctor told me about a woman who was in tears because she had to leave the house for a doctor's visit. In the bookstore the other day I saw a magazine called 'Covid'  How obsessed would someone have to be to get a subscription to such nonsense.
As Steve pointed out earlier, my concerns are about the US citizens I have to deal with. We are mostly a more spoiled and pampered lot than Europeans and it is really showing now.
How hard is it to just wear a mask and maintain some distance, my goodness, you would think these people were being put through some real hardship, and yes, its the trumpateers that are the worst offenders. Our hollywood sourced 'president', has been a disaster on this and a very destructive influence. This is a big part of why we are one of the most diseased countries in the world right now. From my personal perspective, I have known quite a few that have gotten this, its not pleasant at all. |
We had a call from our friend in London yesterday. Jill is 70, and has placed herself in virtual house arrest since March. She was in tears speaking to us when describing how she has massive panic attacks simply going to the supermarket down the road. What a terrible way to live, and what a shocking way to treat people. I speak as one who has had anxiety/panic attacks all of my life. Brain cancer, strokes, bowel cancer, heart attacks; you name them, my rather weird and at times nasty brain has convinced me I have had them. It is something I have learned to live with over those years, but it isn’t pleasant, and I think the media has done us all a disservice in how this pandemic has been reported.
As you know, I find the political situation with you lot over there fascinating, albeit in some ghastly way  I do not envy you your choice this year, believe me.
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lazland
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Posted: October 22 2020 at 11:14 |
SteveG wrote:
lazland wrote:
SteveG wrote:
lazland wrote:
Easy Money wrote:
Re Lazland:
The laws you mention may seem draconian when applied to young people, but the goal here is to stop the spreading. Young people may not be as likely to get severely ill (yet sometimes they do), but they can still be spreaders that eventually bring the germs to those that are old or have pre-existing conditions.
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I am fully aware of the purpose of the laws. They will never stop the spread of a virus, only suppress it a bit until such time as there is either a cure (which nobody believes will happen) or a vaccine which provides for sufficient herd immunity, which is also not a shoo-in by any stretch of the imagination.
The only effective way to stop the spread, rather than suppress it, is a full and total lockdown for an extended period and an effective localised testing and tracing system, a la China.
The first is not particularly desirable, and Western nations, especially yours and mine, seem incapable of putting the latter into effect.
I know that I am in a minority when it comes to the deadlines of this virus, but I am by no means a lone voice.
BTW, turning to Steve G’s comments, I would rather insert a 10 foot pole up my anus than vote for Trumpalot. As I have said many times before, it is perfectly possible to have rational and intelligent arguments between opposing views without descending into “redneck” territory.
I have been consistent throughout in my view that the measures put in place by my country and others will lead in the mid and long term to a damned sight more damage, including deaths, than this virus ever could. In historical terms, this pandemic is exceptionally mild.
People are more than welcome to disagree with me, and I respect those views as much as I expect respect for mine. That is what debating forums are for. |
I'm more measured on this issue Steve, but what is "redneck" territory? |
To quote you, Steve, the same mentality that put Trump in office.
I do, of course, offer fulsome apologies to any rednecks who might visit this forum, and took offence at my comments. |
Got ya. I thought you might have meant some geographical location, as that is a real thing in the US. Yes, most of the anti mask wearers in the US don't protest for lack of freedoms but to make a political statement, in other words, pro Trump, and anti science, as if that's a new scourge on humanity. And a few actually do resent the government mandate, which I actually do understand.
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I agree with all of this, Steve. The culture wars being fought in US and our country at the moment are not particularly pleasant, and certainly are not leading to better governance or citizen behaviours.
I actually think that we are witnessing the beginning of the end of the political systems we have grown up with, and huge changes are coming. I merely hope they are peaceful, although history teaches us that such systemic changes rarely are.
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Easy Money
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Posted: October 22 2020 at 11:14 |
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^ I understand where you are coming from now, you are sick of the hysteria, thats understandable. My perspective is I am sick of belligerent spoiled anti-science Americanos.
Different locales, different perspectives.
Edited by Easy Money - October 22 2020 at 11:15
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SteveG
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Posted: October 22 2020 at 11:25 |
lazland wrote:
SteveG wrote:
lazland wrote:
SteveG wrote:
lazland wrote:
Easy Money wrote:
Re Lazland:
The laws you mention may seem draconian when applied to young people, but the goal here is to stop the spreading. Young people may not be as likely to get severely ill (yet sometimes they do), but they can still be spreaders that eventually bring the germs to those that are old or have pre-existing conditions.
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I am fully aware of the purpose of the laws. They will never stop the spread of a virus, only suppress it a bit until such time as there is either a cure (which nobody believes will happen) or a vaccine which provides for sufficient herd immunity, which is also not a shoo-in by any stretch of the imagination.
The only effective way to stop the spread, rather than suppress it, is a full and total lockdown for an extended period and an effective localised testing and tracing system, a la China.
The first is not particularly desirable, and Western nations, especially yours and mine, seem incapable of putting the latter into effect.
I know that I am in a minority when it comes to the deadlines of this virus, but I am by no means a lone voice.
BTW, turning to Steve G’s comments, I would rather insert a 10 foot pole up my anus than vote for Trumpalot. As I have said many times before, it is perfectly possible to have rational and intelligent arguments between opposing views without descending into “redneck” territory.
I have been consistent throughout in my view that the measures put in place by my country and others will lead in the mid and long term to a damned sight more damage, including deaths, than this virus ever could. In historical terms, this pandemic is exceptionally mild.
People are more than welcome to disagree with me, and I respect those views as much as I expect respect for mine. That is what debating forums are for. |
I'm more measured on this issue Steve, but what is "redneck" territory? |
To quote you, Steve, the same mentality that put Trump in office.
I do, of course, offer fulsome apologies to any rednecks who might visit this forum, and took offence at my comments. |
Got ya. I thought you might have meant some geographical location, as that is a real thing in the US. Yes, most of the anti mask wearers in the US don't protest for lack of freedoms but to make a political statement, in other words, pro Trump, and anti science, as if that's a new scourge on humanity. And a few actually do resent the government mandate, which I actually do understand.
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I agree with all of this, Steve. The culture wars being fought in US and our country at the moment are not particularly pleasant, and certainly are not leading to better governance or citizen behaviours.
I actually think that we are witnessing the beginning of the end of the political systems we have grown up with, and huge changes are coming. I merely hope they are peaceful, although history teaches us that such systemic changes rarely are. |
Yes, I had to think about this a bit. I always assumed that we would return to the old political systems, ideals and behaviors after the kooks in office were displaced. But after mulling over your post, I now agree that the horse has left the barn. This is the beginning of a wholesale change and I'm afraid that there is simply no "going back" from here.
Edited by SteveG - October 22 2020 at 11:26
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lazland
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Posted: October 22 2020 at 11:34 |
SteveG wrote:
lazland wrote:
SteveG wrote:
lazland wrote:
SteveG wrote:
lazland wrote:
Easy Money wrote:
Re Lazland:
The laws you mention may seem draconian when applied to young people, but the goal here is to stop the spreading. Young people may not be as likely to get severely ill (yet sometimes they do), but they can still be spreaders that eventually bring the germs to those that are old or have pre-existing conditions.
|
I am fully aware of the purpose of the laws. They will never stop the spread of a virus, only suppress it a bit until such time as there is either a cure (which nobody believes will happen) or a vaccine which provides for sufficient herd immunity, which is also not a shoo-in by any stretch of the imagination.
The only effective way to stop the spread, rather than suppress it, is a full and total lockdown for an extended period and an effective localised testing and tracing system, a la China.
The first is not particularly desirable, and Western nations, especially yours and mine, seem incapable of putting the latter into effect.
I know that I am in a minority when it comes to the deadlines of this virus, but I am by no means a lone voice.
BTW, turning to Steve G’s comments, I would rather insert a 10 foot pole up my anus than vote for Trumpalot. As I have said many times before, it is perfectly possible to have rational and intelligent arguments between opposing views without descending into “redneck” territory.
I have been consistent throughout in my view that the measures put in place by my country and others will lead in the mid and long term to a damned sight more damage, including deaths, than this virus ever could. In historical terms, this pandemic is exceptionally mild.
People are more than welcome to disagree with me, and I respect those views as much as I expect respect for mine. That is what debating forums are for. |
I'm more measured on this issue Steve, but what is "redneck" territory? |
To quote you, Steve, the same mentality that put Trump in office.
I do, of course, offer fulsome apologies to any rednecks who might visit this forum, and took offence at my comments. |
Got ya. I thought you might have meant some geographical location, as that is a real thing in the US. Yes, most of the anti mask wearers in the US don't protest for lack of freedoms but to make a political statement, in other words, pro Trump, and anti science, as if that's a new scourge on humanity. And a few actually do resent the government mandate, which I actually do understand.
|
I agree with all of this, Steve. The culture wars being fought in US and our country at the moment are not particularly pleasant, and certainly are not leading to better governance or citizen behaviours.
I actually think that we are witnessing the beginning of the end of the political systems we have grown up with, and huge changes are coming. I merely hope they are peaceful, although history teaches us that such systemic changes rarely are. |
Yes, I had to think about this a bit. I always assumed that we would return to the old political systems, ideals and behaviors after the kooks in office were displaced. But after mulling over your post, I now agree that the horse has left the barn. This is the beginning of a wholesale change and I'm afraid that there is simply no "going back" from here.
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I agree. Glass half full comment from me here. As long as the likes of you, John, and others can influence change, then perhaps we can have hope for a better future.
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
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Cristi
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Posted: October 22 2020 at 11:46 |
oh my God, trim those quotes.
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Easy Money
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Posted: October 22 2020 at 11:47 |
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Speaking of disease and the media. There is an old Simpsons episode in which Mrs Hoover, the elementary school teacher, thinks she has lyme(sp) disease. When it turns out she doesn't, she explains to the class, 'When the media makes a big deal out of a sickness, its perfectly normal to think you have it'.
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JD
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Posted: October 22 2020 at 15:57 |
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Ahhhh...The Simpsons, the Oracles of OUR world.
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Thank you for supporting independently produced music
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essexboyinwales
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Posted: October 23 2020 at 03:36 |
Easy Money wrote:
Re Lazland:
The laws you mention may seem draconian when applied to young people, but the goal here is to stop the spreading. Young people may not be as likely to get severely ill (yet sometimes they do), but they can still be spreaders that eventually bring the germs to those that are old or have pre-existing conditions |
Exactly. Re this whole thread, I find it completely unbelievable how anyone with any level of intelligence can possibly think that covid19 is fake news. JUST THINK ABOUT IT SOME MORE..... 
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chopper
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Posted: October 23 2020 at 03:42 |
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someone_else
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Posted: October 23 2020 at 04:05 |
essexboyinwales wrote:
Re this whole thread, I find it completely unbelievable how anyone with any level of intelligence can possibly think that covid19 is fake news. JUST THINK ABOUT IT SOME MORE.....
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I could not find a single post in which anyone suggests that COVID-19 is fake news. JUST READ IT ONCE MORE.....  . It's just the fact that the measures are draconic beyond proportions and way more harmful to most people than the disease could ever be. And I (call me a conspiracy theorist if you want) suspect that the contamination rate may be cranked up because the reliability of the tests is moot. Fake news? No, but the way the journo's on the Dutch TV report about it, and the quantity (between 75% and 85% of all news is my guess), has more to do with brainwashing than with reporting and I find this extremely annoying. |
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lazland
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Posted: October 23 2020 at 04:12 |
f**k me this is tiresome.
I have not once, not once, suggested that Covid 19 is fake news. Not once.
I have accused the media and politicians of hysterical reporting and actions.
They are two completely different things.
Compare me to who you like, but Piers bloody Corbyn? He’s a loony. I would like to think I am a little bit more rational than that, at least until about sunset.
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lazland
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Posted: October 23 2020 at 04:12 |
someone_else wrote:
essexboyinwales wrote:
Re this whole thread, I find it completely unbelievable how anyone with any level of intelligence can possibly think that covid19 is fake news. JUST THINK ABOUT IT SOME MORE.....
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I could not find a single post in which anyone suggests that COVID-19 is fake news. JUST READ IT ONCE MORE..... . It's just the fact that the measures are draconic beyond proportions and way more harmful to most people than the disease could ever be. And I (call me a conspiracy theorist if you want) suspect that the contamination rate may be cranked up because the reliability of the tests is moot. Fake news? No, but the way the journo's on the Dutch TV report about it, and the quantity (between 75% and 85% of all news is my guess), has more to do with brainwashing than with reporting and I find this extremely annoying. |
Thanks Robert 
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chopper
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Posted: October 23 2020 at 04:16 |
lazland wrote:
f**k me this is tiresome.
I have not once, not once, suggested that Covid 19 is fake news. Not once.
I have accused the media and politicians of hysterical reporting and actions.
They are two completely different things.
Compare me to who you like, but Piers bloody Corbyn? He’s a loony. I would like to think I am a little bit more rational than that, at least until about sunset. |
I wasn't comparing you to Corbyn or suggesting that you had suggested anything. I was just making a general comment. My comment was not directed at you in any way.
Edited by chopper - October 23 2020 at 04:16
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someone_else
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Posted: October 23 2020 at 05:21 |
lazland wrote:
someone_else wrote:
essexboyinwales wrote:
Re this whole thread, I find it completely unbelievable how anyone with any level of intelligence can possibly think that covid19 is fake news. JUST THINK ABOUT IT SOME MORE.....
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I could not find a single post in which anyone suggests that COVID-19 is fake news. JUST READ IT ONCE MORE..... . It's just the fact that the measures are draconic beyond proportions and way more harmful to most people than the disease could ever be. And I (call me a conspiracy theorist if you want) suspect that the contamination rate may be cranked up because the reliability of the tests is moot. Fake news? No, but the way the journo's on the Dutch TV report about it, and the quantity (between 75% and 85% of all news is my guess), has more to do with brainwashing than with reporting and I find this extremely annoying. |
Thanks Robert |
You're welcome  . |
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essexboyinwales
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Posted: October 23 2020 at 05:22 |
someone_else wrote:
essexboyinwales wrote:
Re this whole thread, I find it completely unbelievable how anyone with any level of intelligence can possibly think that covid19 is fake news. JUST THINK ABOUT IT SOME MORE.....
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I could not find a single post in which anyone suggests that COVID-19 is fake news. JUST READ IT ONCE MORE....
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You came close with your reference to "cojona scam", and my point was that there are people out there who actually DO believe it's fake...
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someone_else
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Posted: October 23 2020 at 05:25 |
essexboyinwales wrote:
someone_else wrote:
essexboyinwales wrote:
Re this whole thread, I find it completely unbelievable how anyone with any level of intelligence can possibly think that covid19 is fake news. JUST THINK ABOUT IT SOME MORE.....
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I could not find a single post in which anyone suggests that COVID-19 is fake news. JUST READ IT ONCE MORE....
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You came close with your reference to "cojona scam", and my point was that there are people out there who actually DO believe it's fake... |
Now I understand your point. This one came rather close indeed . |
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essexboyinwales
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Posted: October 23 2020 at 05:27 |
lazland wrote:
f**k me this is tiresome.
I have not once, not once, suggested that Covid 19 is fake news. Not once.
I have accused the media and politicians of hysterical reporting and actions.
They are two completely different things.
Compare me to who you like, but Piers bloody Corbyn? He’s a loony. I would like to think I am a little bit more rational than that, at least until about sunset. |
Neither myself nor Chopper were suggesting that YOU thought that covid19 is fake news! I agreed with the comment from Easymoney in response to your post, then left a gap and made a further comment on the thread, not about you...and Chopper responded to that....
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SteveG
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Posted: October 23 2020 at 05:40 |
someone_else wrote:
essexboyinwales wrote:
Re this whole thread, I find it completely unbelievable how anyone with any level of intelligence can possibly think that covid19 is fake news. JUST THINK ABOUT IT SOME MORE.....
|
I could not find a single post in which anyone suggests that COVID-19 is fake news. JUST READ IT ONCE MORE..... . It's just the fact that the measures are draconic beyond proportions and way more harmful to most people than the disease could ever be. And I (call me a conspiracy theorist if you want) suspect that the contamination rate may be cranked up because the reliability of the tests is moot. Fake news? No, but the way the journo's on the Dutch TV report about it, and the quantity (between 75% and 85% of all news is my guess), has more to do with brainwashing than with reporting and I find this extremely annoying. |
Yes, we get it. This deadly and tragic disease is just exaggerated by the press and governments for the mere purpose of brainwashing people to stay home, wear masks and put people in a state of anxiety just for the fun of it. As you have offered no sensible reason for this mass exaggeration then just for fun is as good as any other.
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Posted: October 23 2020 at 06:09 |
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One thing puzzles me - the official Government stats page says covid deaths are "deaths within 28 days of positive test". Is that deaths for any reason? What happens if I test positive and then get run over by a bus the next day?
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