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Why is the term "heavy rock" rarely used?
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AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
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    Posted: October 09 2020 at 12:11
I was thinking about this today for some reason although it was probably partly because of the recent passing of Eddie Van Halen. Van Halen weren't really heavy metal but they were sort of beyond hard rock(imo).

For some reason the term "heavy rock" never really caught on. I think back in the 70's and 80's there were several bands who were more than just regular hard rock(ie Foreigner or ZZ Top)but not quite heavy metal. I think what happened was when the term heavy metal started to get used bands would get lumped into that category even if they didn't really quite fit that box entirely(Queen, Thin Lizzy, Deep Purple to name a few). So it sort of got to be where you were either hard rock or heavy metal with no real acknowledgement of anything in between. I think a lot of debates about whether this band or that band is heavy metal could be settled just by using the term "heavy rock." I think at one point it was used(probably just before HM became common)but not so much anymore. I think ultimately music critics just saw no need to use the term heavy rock because they didn't see a need for it. Any opinions on this or suggestions for other bands you might categorize this way?

Bands who I would categorize as "heavy rock" include the following:

Led Zeppelin
Queen
Van Halen
Def Leppard
Deep Purple
Rainbow
Whitesnake
Maybe some "hair metal" bands(I'll let you guys decide which ones)
Uriah Heep
UFO
Thin Lizzy
Several grunge bands(except Pearl Jam who aren't really that heavy imo)
Aerosmith (admittedly debatable)
Kiss
Rush
Judas Priest (first album only)
AC/DC
Blue Oyster Cult


hard rock and not heavy rock imo:

Foreigner
Journey (although some stuff borders on "heavy rock")
Kansas
ZZ Top
Boston (same as Journey with the above)
Styx




Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - October 09 2020 at 12:46
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He's not heavy, he's my brother.
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I've always had basically two groupings
Heavy Metal
Hard Rock

I don't think I've described a band as heavy rock, maybe ever.
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AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

I've always had basically two groupings
Heavy Metal
Hard Rock

I don't think I've described a band as heavy rock, maybe ever.

Well, it's not just you. I think that's how most people categorize this stuff. I've had arguments with people about whether Def Leppard, Van Halen, Queen, Led Zeppelin, Rush and others are heavy metal and it just seems to me that hard rock doesn't fit but heavy metal doesn't either. I see the debate about Rush a lot and it drives me up the wall. LOL Van Halen or Rush in the same category(as far as heaviness goes)as Foreigner, Bon Jovi as ZZ Top? Seriously? Eddie Van Halen definitely had an influence on heavy metal so I can see them sort of fitting in especially when they started out. 

I just added Blue Oyster Cult to the list. For me they are the perfect example of what I'm talking about. Heavy metal? No not really. Hard rock? To me they were beyond hard rock and that's the same thing with AC/DC but like AC/DC not really full blown metal either. It doesn't have to be heavy rock but there should be another term instead of just hard rock and heavy metal. Maybe extra hard rock or almost metal. Lol.


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - October 09 2020 at 12:49
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How about just hard rock for VH? Just a suggestion as they're not super heavy. And remember, they made songs like Jump too.



Edited by SteveG - October 09 2020 at 12:50
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

How about hard rock for VH? Just a suggestion as their not super heavy.


That term has already been used. The point of this thread is that there are bands who I think go beyond standard hard rock and yet aren't typically(or always) considered heavy metal(AC/DC is a good example).

Edit: For VH I think they were beyond hard rock especially the first DLR era albums. Would you put VH in the same category as Boston, Foreigner or ZZ Top? I wouldn't. I have even seen VH referred to as glam metal but they were before that and other than DLR's hair nothing really glammy about them.

Yeah, they made songs like "jump." Black Sabbath made songs like "planet caravan" and "changes." ;)


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - October 09 2020 at 12:56
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

How about hard rock for VH? Just a suggestion as their not super heavy.


That term has already been used. The point of this thread is that there are bands who I think go beyond standard hard rock and yet aren't typically(or always) considered heavy metal(AC/DC is a good example).
Oh I see. You feel they're kind of a hybrid. Gotcha.
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AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

How about hard rock for VH? Just a suggestion as their not super heavy.


That term has already been used. The point of this thread is that there are bands who I think go beyond standard hard rock and yet aren't typically(or always) considered heavy metal(AC/DC is a good example).
Oh I see. You feel they're kind of a hybrid. Gotcha.

Well sort of. I think they were in between hard rock and heavy metal and the same thing with the other bands on my list. That's why I think there should be some term for stuff in between like "heavy rock." Apparently I've lost my marbles though. LOL
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

How about hard rock for VH? Just a suggestion as their not super heavy.


That term has already been used. The point of this thread is that there are bands who I think go beyond standard hard rock and yet aren't typically(or always) considered heavy metal(AC/DC is a good example).
Oh I see. You feel they're kind of a hybrid. Gotcha.

Well sort of. I think they were in between hard rock and heavy metal and the same thing with the other bands on my list. That's why I think there should be some term for stuff in between like "heavy rock." Apparently I've lost my marbles though. LOL
Ok, kind of like hard rock and a half. LOL Got it.
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Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

I've always had basically two groupings
Heavy Metal
Hard Rock

I don't think I've described a band as heavy rock, maybe ever.


I have used the term “heavy rock” occasionally, but more often it has been “hard rock”, “heavy metal”, and “heavy (heavy) duty (duty), heavy duty rock & roll”. That brings out the duty in my soul.
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

I've always had basically two groupings
Heavy Metal
Hard Rock

I don't think I've described a band as heavy rock, maybe ever.

Well, it's not just you. I think that's how most people categorize this stuff. I've had arguments with people about whether Def Leppard, Van Halen, Queen, Led Zeppelin, Rush and others are heavy metal and it just seems to me that hard rock doesn't fit but heavy metal doesn't either. I see the debate about Rush a lot and it drives me up the wall. LOL Van Halen or Rush in the same category(as far as heaviness goes)as Foreigner, Bon Jovi as ZZ Top? Seriously? Eddie Van Halen definitely had an influence on heavy metal so I can see them sort of fitting in especially when they started out. 

I just added Blue Oyster Cult to the list. For me they are the perfect example of what I'm talking about. Heavy metal? No not really. Hard rock? To me they were beyond hard rock and that's the same thing with AC/DC but like AC/DC not really full blown metal either. It doesn't have to be heavy rock but there should be another term instead of just hard rock and heavy metal. Maybe extra hard rock or almost metal. Lol.
I get where u coming from.......Here's the deal, at least for me. To call VH hard rock is fine for me, to call them heavy metal is not, for me. So for you they are somewhere in between, but those parameters of in between become so minute that they end up applying to almost all of them. And I don't even know what the parameters would be.
When discussing rock bands with rock fans (not prog fans) I think they are more general, I think my rock friends would never label VH as heavy metal. One of my friends, he's Swiss, absolutely loves AC/DC, Judas Priest, Scorps, Iron Maiden.....Our families go to Scorpions and Iron Maiden concerts, he's a Maiden club member so he buys the tickets and I pay him back, we get great seats.
He would not consider VH metal, nor Iron Maiden/Judas Priest hard rock, nor VH metal lite....Us prog fans are so used to navigating 45 different sub-genres within one major genre, its 2nd nature to us to subdivide a band, we are the only group that does that.......It's a wall we have built. "Git off my lawn!!!"

 
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Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

I've always had basically two groupings
Heavy Metal
Hard Rock

I don't think I've described a band as heavy rock, maybe ever.


I have used the term “heavy rock” occasionally, but more often it has been “hard rock”, “heavy metal”, and “heavy (heavy) duty (duty), heavy duty rock & roll”. That brings out the duty in my soul.
Ahh yes a duty cleansing.....good for the soul!
 


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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

How about hard rock for VH? Just a suggestion as their not super heavy.


That term has already been used. The point of this thread is that there are bands who I think go beyond standard hard rock and yet aren't typically(or always) considered heavy metal(AC/DC is a good example).
Oh I see. You feel they're kind of a hybrid. Gotcha.

Well sort of. I think they were in between hard rock and heavy metal and the same thing with the other bands on my list. That's why I think there should be some term for stuff in between like "heavy rock." Apparently I've lost my marbles though. LOL
Ok, kind of like hard rock and a half. LOL Got it.

Yep. Close enough. Wink
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Foreigner
Journey (although some stuff borders on "heavy rock")
Kansas
ZZ Top
Boston (same as Journey with the above)
Styx

Kansas isn't hard rock.

ZZ Top is blues rock.

Styx is pomp rock, like Angel.

Boston is arena rock / AOR.

Journey started life as "Prog Related" (just kidding) and went AOR / arena rock.


Edited by verslibre - October 09 2020 at 13:50
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Ok, I don't think anyone here is against calling VH heavy rock, so to answer your question "why is it used rarely used?" I would say that it's probably a term that's not in the people's consciousness like hard rock or heavy metal. If you're old enough you can remember commercials for compilation records by companies like K-tel, who advertised "the best songs in hard rock and heavy metal!" They didn't say "the best in heavy rock! Take down this number and call now!" And that's the descriptions that radio DJ's use too. They never say grunge or nu metal or thrash metal. (see Jose, they do have subgenres!) They still call groups like Zeppelin rock and roll! Yikes. It's the best that I can think of.

Edited by SteveG - October 09 2020 at 13:53
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AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
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Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Foreigner
Journey (although some stuff borders on "heavy rock")
Kansas
ZZ Top
Boston (same as Journey with the above)
Styx

Kansas isn't hard rock.

ZZ Top is blues rock.

Styx is pomp rock, like Angel.

Boston is arena rock / AOR.

Journey started life as "Prog Related" (just kidding) and went AOR / arena rock.

Kansas not hard rock? What do you consider them(other than prog rock)? Wikipedia lists them as hard rock(among other genres)so that's good enough for me. Same thing with Styx and Boston.

I am not very familiar with Angel. I guess I need to check them out. 

Anyway, all your opinion. Stop speaking like you have the final say on everything(other than your own opinion). 




Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - October 09 2020 at 14:12
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Anyway, all your opinion. Stop speaking like you have the final say on everything(other than your own opinion).

What's with the 'tude? Have fun.
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AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
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Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Anyway, all your opinion. Stop speaking like you have the final say on everything(other than your own opinion).

What's with the 'tude? Have fun.

Ha ha. I knew you would respond with something like that. You're so predictible. Wink
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Terms, terms, terms... LOL

Hard rock is a "solid" one. (pun intended)

Heavy metal? Not so much. I'd have coined the genre as "sharp metal" or something. 

Heavy rock could make sense to denote the hybridity of heavy metal & hard rock, yet the name is not very classy per se, IMO.

Edited by Shadowyzard - October 09 2020 at 14:56
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Anyway, all your opinion. Stop speaking like you have the final say on everything(other than your own opinion).

What's with the 'tude? Have fun.

Ha ha. I knew you would respond with something like that. You're so predictible. Wink

You're predictable as a Jack-in-the-Box. LOL (Notice it's a comparison. I'm not calling you that. Tongue )
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