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SteveG View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Did Rush influence Prog Metal?
    Posted: October 05 2020 at 12:00
I say it was more a case of inspiration on bands like Dream Theater as opposed to actual musical influence. What say you?

Edited by SteveG - October 05 2020 at 12:01
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2020 at 12:04
yes, they did, not just DT, but even Fates Warning, Queensryche, Enchant as well as German bands like Sieges Even, Poverty's No Crime, Soul Cages, Crises. I'm sure there are others, but that's what I could think right this moment. 

Edited by Cristi - October 05 2020 at 12:04
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2020 at 12:09
The same could be said about Yes, Styx, Kansas and other bands not necessarily prog. On their "Seasons of change" ep they do a bunch of covers none of which are really metal or even that heavy and in most cases not even really prog. The Pink Floyd cover they do on there is from the Wall so that's kind of in the middle. 

In my opinion though they were definitely influenced by Rush especially Mike Portnoy(although he's no longer in DT). I admit there is a thin line between being inspired by someone and being influenced by them but Rush were heavy enough to make it plausible they were both. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2020 at 12:10
Queensryche sound like a straight up hard rock band to me with obvious Floyd influences and a few concepts. Nothing they did makes me think of Rush. Same for Fates Warning but with more complex songs. Again, I'm asking if is influence or inspiration which are not the same thing.

Edited by SteveG - October 05 2020 at 12:12
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2020 at 12:11
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

yes, they did, not just DT, but even Fates Warning, Queensryche, Enchant as well as German bands like Sieges Even, Poverty's No Crime, Soul Cages, Crises. I'm sure there are others, but that's what I could think right this moment. 

Enchant is prog metal? LOL Not to me they weren't. Tiles would be a better example although they weren't really prog metal either.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2020 at 12:14
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

yes, they did, not just DT, but even Fates Warning, Queensryche, Enchant as well as German bands like Sieges Even, Poverty's No Crime, Soul Cages, Crises. I'm sure there are others, but that's what I could think right this moment. 

Enchant is prog metal? LOL Not to me they weren't. Tiles would be a better example although they weren't really prog metal either.

Tiles, how could I forget about them. 
Enchant are more heavy prog than progressive metal. No need to laugh at me. I've seen them classified as progressive metal some places. 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2020 at 12:16
If the influence means that Rush gives a Prog Metal band an idea of what to create, then I would call that inspiration. Influence and inspiration are related terms. From what I've read, Rush was an influence and an inspiration to various prog metal bands. Yes and Pink Floyd (Pink Floyd as mentioned already) were also inspirations.

It might help if you define the terms as you are using them.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2020 at 12:17
No.   Rush influenced many musicians in terms of ambition and attitude, and inspired young musicians to play quality rock.   But they had almost nothing to do with the rise of progressive metal which emerged from early heavy metal ~ Sabbath, the Scorps, Maiden, Priest, etc. ~ rather than the rock-art of Crimson, ELP, or Yes.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2020 at 14:12
They did Steve.....back when they were touring 350 days a year they were known for a very hard and LOUD live show. Many back then considered it metal, heavy metal or metalish, not in the vein of what we consider metal to be today. 
They were not the originators of metal, like I would not put them next to Black Sabbath, but they had an influence on progressive metal. By that I mean they influenced bands and allowed them to record music like Yes or Genesis or Pink Floyd but with a much harder attitude, essentially Rush music since they themselves were influenced by Yes for example.
In very fine well defined buckets, to me Black Sabbath influenced the creation of hard heavy metal like say Iron Maiden, Judas Priest. Rush helped bands like Tool, DT, Riverside create much harder rock, maybe call it metal-lite with prog attributes. I try not to mix those two buckets......And we all know Rush were influenced by Zeppelin, Yardbirds, Cream but also listened to Yes, Genesis and put those two together and you have the start of prog-metal and in early days, Rush.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2020 at 14:18
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

yes, they did, not just DT, but even Fates Warning, Queensryche, Enchant as well as German bands like Sieges Even, Poverty's No Crime, Soul Cages, Crises. I'm sure there are others, but that's what I could think right this moment. 

Enchant is prog metal? LOL Not to me they weren't. Tiles would be a better example although they weren't really prog metal either.

Tiles, how could I forget about them. 
Enchant are more heavy prog than progressive metal. No need to laugh at me. I've seen them classified as progressive metal some places. 


I wasn't laughing at you. I was laughing at the statement. I just thought it was funny to lump them in with prog metal. Yeah, I've seen them put in prog metal sometimes too but I've seen Porcupine Tree in with prog metal also.


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - October 05 2020 at 14:19
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2020 at 14:21
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

yes, they did, not just DT, but even Fates Warning, Queensryche, Enchant as well as German bands like Sieges Even, Poverty's No Crime, Soul Cages, Crises. I'm sure there are others, but that's what I could think right this moment. 

Enchant is prog metal? LOL Not to me they weren't. Tiles would be a better example although they weren't really prog metal either.

Tiles, how could I forget about them. 
Enchant are more heavy prog than progressive metal. No need to laugh at me. I've seen them classified as progressive metal some places. 


I wasn't laughing at you. I was laughing at the statement. I just thought it was funny to lump them in with prog metal. Yeah, I've seen them put in prog metal sometimes too but I've seen Porcupine Tree in with prog metal also.

PT had metal influences in the 2000s. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2020 at 14:22
I’ve seen the Osmonds lumped in with extreme death metal (facetiously I’m sure). It takes all kinds.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2020 at 14:22
Prog metal was influenced by many things and I think Rush was one of the important bands in that regard.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2020 at 14:23
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

yes, they did, not just DT, but even Fates Warning, Queensryche, Enchant as well as German bands like Sieges Even, Poverty's No Crime, Soul Cages, Crises. I'm sure there are others, but that's what I could think right this moment. 

Enchant is prog metal? LOL Not to me they weren't. Tiles would be a better example although they weren't really prog metal either.

Tiles, how could I forget about them. 
Enchant are more heavy prog than progressive metal. No need to laugh at me. I've seen them classified as progressive metal some places. 


I wasn't laughing at you. I was laughing at the statement. I just thought it was funny to lump them in with prog metal. Yeah, I've seen them put in prog metal sometimes too but I've seen Porcupine Tree in with prog metal also.

PT had metal influences in the 2000s. 

So did Arena. I think that's when bands started to be able to be prog with metal influences but not prog metal per se. I hope that makes sense. There were some examples before that though like Mastermind and Par Lindh Project.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2020 at 15:03
Caress of Steel and 2112 are early totems on the highway to progressive metal.

Rush has influenced and inspired many musicians and bands.

In a late 1980s issue of Guitar for the Practicing Musician, in the introduction to an interview with Geddy, Rush was cited as "father to bands such as Queensryche and Dream Theater."

Dream Theater? Absolutely. All you have to do is play their debut When Dream and Day Unite and it's apparent. Rush was one of the bands those guys clearly worshipped, along with Iron Maiden, Led Zeppelin and Deep Purple.

At the time, I didn't agree with the Queensr˙che part, and I still don't. They liked Rush, no doubt, but their early sound is firmly of the Iron Maiden template. I do hear some Rush in Rage for Order, where they spread their wings a bit.

Tiles was brought up. They wanted to be "Rush Part Deux," but that's a lot harder to actually do than put on paper.

Mastermind's debut Volume One — minus the vocals, IMO, was a more successful attempt to emulate Rush and ELP...simultaneously! Derivative as hell, but I love it.

This will surprise some, not all.



Edited by verslibre - October 05 2020 at 16:44
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2020 at 15:05
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Queensryche sound like a straight up hard rock band to me with obvious Floyd influences and a few concepts. Nothing they did makes me think of Rush. Same for Fates Warning but with more complex songs. Again, I'm asking if is influence or inspiration which are not the same thing.

I hate their big hit "Silent Lucidity." That's the song responsible for the Floyd comparison. Nothing else in their catalog sounds like that.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2020 at 15:10
Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Queensryche sound like a straight up hard rock band to me with obvious Floyd influences and a few concepts. Nothing they did makes me think of Rush. Same for Fates Warning but with more complex songs. Again, I'm asking if is influence or inspiration which are not the same thing.

I hate their big hit "Silent Lucidity." That's the song responsible for the Floyd comparison. Nothing else in their catalog sounds like that.

Interesting because that's the song that got me into Queensryche. I bought that album(cd) "Empire" just because of that song. I still think it's one of the best songs of the 90's. Guilty pleasure? Maybe but I don't care. We like what we like right? It always did remind me a bit of PF so maybe that's part of it. But regardless I always thought it was a very powerful song.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2020 at 15:15
Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Queensryche sound like a straight up hard rock band to me with obvious Floyd influences and a few concepts. Nothing they did makes me inthink of Rush. Same for Fates Warning but with more complex songs. Again, I'm asking if is influence or inspiration which are not the same thing.


I hate their big hit "Silent Lucidity." That's the song responsible for the Floyd comparison. Nothing else in their catalog sounds like that.
Silent Lucity also made them prog metal darlings. Before that they were heavy metal with a concept on Operation Mind Crime. I do like Silent Lucity btw.

Edited by SteveG - October 05 2020 at 15:17
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2020 at 15:20
^ It made Queensryche mainstream and gave them a bank account, I too like the song.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2020 at 15:24
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

I hate their big hit "Silent Lucidity." That's the song responsible for the Floyd comparison. Nothing else in their catalog sounds like that.
 
Interesting because that's the song that got me into Queensryche. I bought that album(cd) "Empire" just because of that song.
 
I don't know "Silent Lucidity", but Operation: Mindcrime reminds me of The Wall.
 
 
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