Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Music Lounge
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - So, Who Exactly is a Member of the Big Six?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

So, Who Exactly is a Member of the Big Six?
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 56789 13>
Author
Message
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Boboulo View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: August 21 2020
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 676 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Boboulo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2020 at 05:30
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Originally posted by Boboulo Boboulo wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Originally posted by Boboulo Boboulo wrote:

Return to Forever.

Why not? The Big Four are Jethro Tull, ELP, Yes and Genesis and we can add what we want to meet the Big Six requirement.

Applying your own twisted logic, we can discount Jethro Tull as they have many more Blues Rock & Folk Rock albums than Prog. Yes have disbanded so many times its hard to keep track so they're out. Genesis are much more popular as a pop band and have't released a prog album since '78 so cut them.

Guess our Big 6 is .... Emerson Lake and Palmer.
Return to Forever certainly were more "proggy" than psychedelic rock band Pink Floyd.

In your opinion. That's all it is, an opinion, like arseholes we all have one. You're opinion is no more valuable than anyone elses and can be discounted whenever you apply garbage logic to match up with your personal tastes.
Not my opinion actually. Jazz-Rock is a genre that once belonged to meta-genre called "Progressive music", while Psychedelia was something else. And you can't rewrite the history of rock music.
Back to Top
kenethlevine View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Prog-Folk Team

Joined: December 06 2006
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 9070 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2020 at 06:50
Originally posted by Awesoreno Awesoreno wrote:

If I'm remembering what I've read correctly, GG were much more popular in the US than in their native Britain. Same for JT at first I believe.

yep, much more popular yet still hardly household names.  Tull was big in UK too, maybe not quite as big.  KC and Genesis were also very big in UK even in the early days.
Back to Top
Nogbad_The_Bad View Drop Down
Forum & Site Admin Group
Forum & Site Admin Group
Avatar
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl & Eclectic Team

Joined: March 16 2007
Location: Boston
Status: Offline
Points: 21296 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2020 at 07:13
Originally posted by Boboulo Boboulo wrote:

 Not my opinion actually. Jazz-Rock is a genre that once belonged to meta-genre called "Progressive music", while Psychedelia was something else. And you can't rewrite the history of rock music.

Fantastic! Accusing others of what you do every day, I wonder why you keep getting thrown off so many sites?
Ian

Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com

https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/
Back to Top
Catcher10 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 17964 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2020 at 07:45
Originally posted by Boboulo Boboulo wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Originally posted by Boboulo Boboulo wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Originally posted by Boboulo Boboulo wrote:

Return to Forever.

Why not? The Big Four are Jethro Tull, ELP, Yes and Genesis and we can add what we want to meet the Big Six requirement.

Applying your own twisted logic, we can discount Jethro Tull as they have many more Blues Rock & Folk Rock albums than Prog. Yes have disbanded so many times its hard to keep track so they're out. Genesis are much more popular as a pop band and have't released a prog album since '78 so cut them.

Guess our Big 6 is .... Emerson Lake and Palmer.
Return to Forever certainly were more "proggy" than psychedelic rock band Pink Floyd.

In your opinion. That's all it is, an opinion, like arseholes we all have one. You're opinion is no more valuable than anyone elses and can be discounted whenever you apply garbage logic to match up with your personal tastes.
Not my opinion actually. Jazz-Rock is a genre that once belonged to meta-genre called "Progressive music", while Psychedelia was something else. And you can't rewrite the history of rock music.
Definition of "rantings of a raving musical lunatic....." God here we go again with the jazz rock, prog, proggy, psychedelia labels that rule your posts for the past 10yrs. It's like a scab that will never heal.....
I don't think you have a clue what you mean anymore......sad


Edited by Catcher10 - September 09 2020 at 07:45
Back to Top
Hercules View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: June 14 2007
Location: Near York UK
Status: Offline
Points: 7024 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hercules Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2020 at 11:33
Originally posted by Boboulo Boboulo wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Boboulo Boboulo wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

As for ELP they were big but aside from King Crimson they were the only major prog band who didn't have any platinum albums(all of their 70's albums went gold but that's it). 
King Crimson have disbanded in 1974. Thus, they have been the past already in 1976.
you could argue that things started to go downhill after 1974 anyway. 
Actually, "Prog" was the most popular in 1975-1977 when the younger generation of fans arrived.
Codswallop.
I was alive then and prog was most popular from 1971 to 1975. It waned somewhat from 1975 to 1977 (whilst still being popular) but then fell off a cliff until 1983, when Marillion and a few other bands rejuvenated the genre to some extent.
A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life.
Back to Top
Hercules View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: June 14 2007
Location: Near York UK
Status: Offline
Points: 7024 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hercules Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2020 at 11:36
Originally posted by Boboulo Boboulo wrote:

Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

The Big Six are actually The Big Five plus a sixth one of your choosing. This allows everyone to think that their favourite band is part of The Big Six...
It's "the Big Four", actually. I mean, four British bands from the early days of movement that have achieved commercial success on both sides of the Atlantic, i.e. Jethro Tull, Emerson, Lake & Palmer, Yes and Genesis.
As "Psychedelic rock" and Pink Floyd were almost synonyms in the 70's, Pink Floyd weren't considered as a "Progressive rock" band back in the day so they couldn't be one of "Big Four".
Again - absolute bo**ocks.
Pink Floyd were ALWAYS considered to be a seminal prog rock band.
A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life.
Back to Top
Boboulo View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: August 21 2020
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 676 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Boboulo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2020 at 11:51
Originally posted by Hercules Hercules wrote:

Originally posted by Boboulo Boboulo wrote:

Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

The Big Six are actually The Big Five plus a sixth one of your choosing. This allows everyone to think that their favourite band is part of The Big Six...
It's "the Big Four", actually. I mean, four British bands from the early days of movement that have achieved commercial success on both sides of the Atlantic, i.e. Jethro Tull, Emerson, Lake & Palmer, Yes and Genesis.
As "Psychedelic rock" and Pink Floyd were almost synonyms in the 70's, Pink Floyd weren't considered as a "Progressive rock" band back in the day so they couldn't be one of "Big Four".
Again - absolute bo**ocks.
Pink Floyd were ALWAYS considered to be a seminal prog rock band.
Maybe in an alternate history.
Back to Top
lazland View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 13792 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2020 at 11:58
Originally posted by Boboulo Boboulo wrote:

Originally posted by Hercules Hercules wrote:

Originally posted by Boboulo Boboulo wrote:

Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

The Big Six are actually The Big Five plus a sixth one of your choosing. This allows everyone to think that their favourite band is part of The Big Six...
It's "the Big Four", actually. I mean, four British bands from the early days of movement that have achieved commercial success on both sides of the Atlantic, i.e. Jethro Tull, Emerson, Lake & Palmer, Yes and Genesis.
As "Psychedelic rock" and Pink Floyd were almost synonyms in the 70's, Pink Floyd weren't considered as a "Progressive rock" band back in the day so they couldn't be one of "Big Four".
Again - absolute bo**ocks.
Pink Floyd were ALWAYS considered to be a seminal prog rock band.
Maybe in an alternate history.

The alternate history, you utterly mad Loon, is entirely of your own making.
Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org

Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
Back to Top
Boboulo View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: August 21 2020
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 676 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Boboulo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2020 at 12:13
Originally posted by Hercules Hercules wrote:

Originally posted by Boboulo Boboulo wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Boboulo Boboulo wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

As for ELP they were big but aside from King Crimson they were the only major prog band who didn't have any platinum albums(all of their 70's albums went gold but that's it). 
King Crimson have disbanded in 1974. Thus, they have been the past already in 1976.
you could argue that things started to go downhill after 1974 anyway. 
Actually, "Prog" was the most popular in 1975-1977 when the younger generation of fans arrived.
Codswallop.
I was alive then and prog was most popular from 1971 to 1975. It waned somewhat from 1975 to 1977 (whilst still being popular) but then fell off a cliff until 1983, when Marillion and a few other bands rejuvenated the genre to some extent.
Unlike the hippie generation who had listened to rock music in the 60's and grew up listening to The Beatles, Bob Dylan, Jefferson Airplane and Mamas and Papas, for the crowds of new kids who were just got old enough in 1975-1977 to start buying records and attending concerts, the idols were Emerson, Lake & Palmer, Jethro Tull, Yes and Genesis. That new bunch of kids has increased the fan base for "Symphonic rock" bands but also for hard-rock bands like Black Sabbath, Blue Öyster Cult, Rainbow and Boston.
Back to Top
The Dark Elf View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 13215 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2020 at 13:48
Originally posted by Boboulo Boboulo wrote:

Originally posted by Hercules Hercules wrote:

Originally posted by Boboulo Boboulo wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Boboulo Boboulo wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

As for ELP they were big but aside from King Crimson they were the only major prog band who didn't have any platinum albums(all of their 70's albums went gold but that's it). 
King Crimson have disbanded in 1974. Thus, they have been the past already in 1976.
you could argue that things started to go downhill after 1974 anyway. 
Actually, "Prog" was the most popular in 1975-1977 when the younger generation of fans arrived.
Codswallop.
I was alive then and prog was most popular from 1971 to 1975. It waned somewhat from 1975 to 1977 (whilst still being popular) but then fell off a cliff until 1983, when Marillion and a few other bands rejuvenated the genre to some extent.
Unlike the hippie generation who had listened to rock music in the 60's and grew up listening to The Beatles, Bob Dylan, Jefferson Airplane and Mamas and Papas, for the crowds of new kids who were just got old enough in 1975-1977 to start buying records and attending concerts, the idols were Emerson, Lake & Palmer, Jethro Tull, Yes and Genesis. That new bunch of kids has increased the fan base for "Symphonic rock" bands but also for hard-rock bands like Black Sabbath, Blue Öyster Cult, Rainbow and Boston.

Again, you obviously weren't there, and obviously have no clue what you are talking about. ELP, Jethro Tull and Yes had their greatest selling albums and their highest points on the charts from 1971-1975 -- their greatest years of popularity in the 70s, not 75-77. This is not arguable. This is unequivocal. 

As far as Black Sabbath, you clearly are out of your league here, junior. Everyone was listening to Paranoid, Master of Reality and Vol. 4 right along with Aqualung, Thick as a Brick, Fragile, CTTE, Trilogy and Brain Salad Surgery. They were also listening to Deep Purple because Rainbow wasn't a band yet.

You are wrong. Everyone else is right. And you are Svetonio about to banned again as eventually as you were the last ten times.
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
Back to Top
FatherChristmas View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: June 30 2020
Location: LandofGrey&Pink
Status: Offline
Points: 2477 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FatherChristmas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2020 at 14:03
I must admit, Boboulo's views seem a bit delusional to me. Perhaps history of prog is different where he comes from.
"Music is the wine that fills the cup of silence" - Robert Fripp
"I am an anti-Christ" - Johnny Rotten
Back to Top
Spaciousmind View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: September 07 2020
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 724 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spaciousmind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2020 at 14:19
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:


As far as Black Sabbath, ........ Everyone was listening to Paranoid, Master of Reality and Vol. 4 right along with Aqualung, Thick as a Brick, Fragile, CTTE, Trilogy and Brain Salad Surgery. They were also listening to Deep Purple because Rainbow wasn't a band yet

You know what is funny is that I can't exactly remember us calling it Progressive Rock... i think we were just fans of Progressive music... anything that was different to the norm.  And yes Black Sabbath was also part of the must have collection.

Wow adding Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple and Black Sabbath does give the big 6 question a totally different outlook :).... just missing Tommy from the Who... regards.

Rainbow only took shape after Richie Blackmore left DP.
Back to Top
essexboyinwales View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: April 27 2015
Location: Bridgend
Status: Offline
Points: 5223 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote essexboyinwales Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2020 at 15:59
Fun thread. Bringing the best out in everyone....
Back to Top
Hercules View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: June 14 2007
Location: Near York UK
Status: Offline
Points: 7024 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hercules Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2020 at 16:04
Originally posted by Boboulo Boboulo wrote:

Originally posted by Hercules Hercules wrote:

Originally posted by Boboulo Boboulo wrote:

Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

The Big Six are actually The Big Five plus a sixth one of your choosing. This allows everyone to think that their favourite band is part of The Big Six...
It's "the Big Four", actually. I mean, four British bands from the early days of movement that have achieved commercial success on both sides of the Atlantic, i.e. Jethro Tull, Emerson, Lake & Palmer, Yes and Genesis.
As "Psychedelic rock" and Pink Floyd were almost synonyms in the 70's, Pink Floyd weren't considered as a "Progressive rock" band back in the day so they couldn't be one of "Big Four".
Again - absolute bo**ocks.
Pink Floyd were ALWAYS considered to be a seminal prog rock band.
Maybe in an alternate history.
It was a history I was alive through and very much part of. So, unlike you, I know EXACTLY what happened and when.
How old are you, by the way?
A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life.
Back to Top
Hercules View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: June 14 2007
Location: Near York UK
Status: Offline
Points: 7024 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hercules Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2020 at 16:09
Originally posted by Spaciousmind Spaciousmind wrote:

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:


As far as Black Sabbath, ........ Everyone was listening to Paranoid, Master of Reality and Vol. 4 right along with Aqualung, Thick as a Brick, Fragile, CTTE, Trilogy and Brain Salad Surgery. They were also listening to Deep Purple because Rainbow wasn't a band yet

You know what is funny is that I can't exactly remember us calling it Progressive Rock... i think we were just fans of Progressive music... anything that was different to the norm.  And yes Black Sabbath was also part of the must have collection.

Wow adding Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple and Black Sabbath does give the big 6 question a totally different outlook :).... just missing Tommy from the Who... regards.

Rainbow only took shape after Richie Blackmore left DP.

You know what is funny is that I can't exactly remember us calling it Progressive Rock

Correct. In the late 60s/early 70s, it was just "prog" or "progressive music".
A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life.
Back to Top
Sacro_Porgo View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: July 15 2019
Location: Cygnus
Status: Offline
Points: 2062 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sacro_Porgo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2020 at 16:29
Originally posted by Boboulo Boboulo wrote:

Originally posted by Sacro_Porgo Sacro_Porgo wrote:

If we're considering trying to establish a new, more agreeable version of the big six...

What are the odds anyone knows some good candidates who aren't 100% white dudes?

I'm ashamed to say off the top of my head I don't, though I'm sure there must be quite a few and I've just never looked into them.
Return to Forever.

Why not? The Big Four are Jethro Tull, ELP, Yes and Genesis and we can add what we want to meet the Big Six requirement.

RTF is a decent start, though I believe that's still all dudes. Does anyone know some good female artists or other artists from non-european cultures which could round out the list?
Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :)
Back to Top
AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 02 2016
Location: Philly burbs
Status: Offline
Points: 18880 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2020 at 16:40
You are wrong. Everyone else is right. And you are Svetonio about to banned again as eventually as you were the last ten times.


Regarding Boboulo, he might be Svetonio and he might not be. If he admit's it then he is and even if he doesn't he still might be but unless you have his ip address it could be difficult to prove. To paraphrase Forest Gump trolling is as trolling does. If he doesn't actually engage in trolling or inappropriate behavior then no reason to sound the alarm(imo).

Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - September 09 2020 at 16:43
Back to Top
Spaciousmind View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: September 07 2020
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 724 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spaciousmind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2020 at 17:48
Originally posted by Awesoreno Awesoreno wrote:

If I'm remembering what I've read correctly, GG were much more popular in the US than in their native Britain. Same for JT at first I believe.

Here is what Phil Shulman wrote when asked about why they were not more popular in England:

The fact is in Europe we were very popular as well but you have to remember there was something else holding us back here (England) my brothers and I were very much remembered as what was called a POP group (S.Dupree) and its very hard to discard those old clothes and people were very suspect of the fact that we would get pissed off at what we were it changed things radically.






Edited by Spaciousmind - September 09 2020 at 17:49
Back to Top
Catcher10 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 17964 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2020 at 18:02
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

You are wrong. Everyone else is right. And you are Svetonio about to banned again as eventually as you were the last ten times.


Regarding Boboulo, he might be Svetonio and he might not be. If he admit's it then he is and even if he doesn't he still might be but unless you have his ip address it could be difficult to prove. To paraphrase Forest Gump trolling is as trolling does. If he doesn't actually engage in trolling or inappropriate behavior then no reason to sound the alarm(imo).
It's him....He did the same thing over at Hoffman Forums in the music section on a prog thread, trying to spread his delusional theories about music.
Ask him to give you his thoughts on Dream Theater.......basically called them the greatest prog band ever. Then u get sucked into his diatribe about what is prog and progressive and proggy and psych and symphonic and what bands fit where and since they don't fit in one they can't be another. I don't think he is trolling....YET. But it will happen, for now he exists for my comedic relief, so hope the admins leave him be. LOL 
Back to Top
AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 02 2016
Location: Philly burbs
Status: Offline
Points: 18880 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2020 at 18:10
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

You are wrong. Everyone else is right. And you are Svetonio about to banned again as eventually as you were the last ten times.


Regarding Boboulo, he might be Svetonio and he might not be. If he admit's it then he is and even if he doesn't he still might be but unless you have his ip address it could be difficult to prove. To paraphrase Forest Gump trolling is as trolling does. If he doesn't actually engage in trolling or inappropriate behavior then no reason to sound the alarm(imo).
It's him....He did the same thing over at Hoffman Forums in the music section on a prog thread, trying to spread his delusional theories about music.
Ask him to give you his thoughts on Dream Theater.......basically called them the greatest prog band ever. Then u get sucked into his diatribe about what is prog and progressive and proggy and psych and symphonic and what bands fit where and since they don't fit in one they can't be another. I don't think he is trolling....YET. But it will happen, for now he exists for my comedic relief, so hope the admins leave him be. LOL 


Ok, I stand corrected then. Why not just have him locked in a room and have him listen to Justin Beiber and Brittany Spears songs for a few hours? 
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 56789 13>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.188 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.