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Modern/New Prog |
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Awesoreno 
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: October 07 2019 Location: Culver City, CA Status: Offline Points: 3041 |
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 Posted: July 11 2020 at 13:44 |
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Agree about it being a wave rather than a cohesive genre. But there are certainly similarities in this new wave when it comes to attitude and production as opposed to the the actual style of writing.
Maybe it could be useful in the guides section to talk about different waves of prog. We could even get more specific about the waves of some specific sub-genres (electronic and fusion, for example, would have their own histories and waves). I get a little tired of people saying there are three "eras" of prog, the third usually being post-2000 or starting with the mid-90s retro prog wave. There was definitely a fourth wave that came in the very late 2000s/early 2010s. And I think we're experiencing a new one even now (as well as in several other scenes of music, my music producer friend is convinced the '20s will be a return to the adventurousness of the early 70s, with a completely new sound of course, because average listeners are bored and don't even know it). And even that description is kind of narrow. It makes sense, since most people who only categorize three waves are not only not listening to a lot of new stuff, but are only really referring to a bunch of bands from symph, eclectic, crossover, some RIO/avant/Canterbury, and MAYBE some metal. Which is ok if that's what they want to listen to. But you can't be an authority on something you only know a little bit about.
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richardh
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 28070 |
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Posted: July 12 2020 at 00:44 |
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Big Big Train actually made the UK charts last year for the first time in their history. I love their music as much as anything that was made in the seventies. Don't care that's it's not cutting edge . If 'New prog' is a bunch of randomly collected noises then I'm not interested.
Edited by richardh - July 12 2020 at 00:44 |
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FatherChristmas
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2020 Location: LandofGrey&Pink Status: Offline Points: 2457 |
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Posted: July 12 2020 at 04:41 |
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Thanks, very helpful.
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"Music is the wine that fills the cup of silence" - Robert Fripp
"I am an anti-Christ" - Johnny Rotten |
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Awesoreno
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 07 2019 Location: Culver City, CA Status: Offline Points: 3041 |
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Posted: July 12 2020 at 12:26 |
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Well you're in luck, because it isn't. Just take a listen to iNFiNiEN, and Endless Sporadic, Haken, etc.
Edited by Awesoreno - July 12 2020 at 12:26 |
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Raff
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 29 2005 Location: None Status: Offline Points: 24429 |
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Posted: July 12 2020 at 13:24 |
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Very well said
 . I don't understand why so many people think that is something is not retro-prog then it's random noise. There is a large grey area between "retro" and "avant-garde". Glad to see you mentioned iNFiNiEN, who made a great impression at ProgDay a couple of years ago. I'll add North Sea Radio Orchestra, Ut Gret, Thieves' Kitchen, Herd of Instinct... The list is endless. As regards Big Big Train, my problem with them is not that they are retro, but that their albums all sound the same to me. |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17529 |
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Posted: July 12 2020 at 14:08 |
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Hi, Which is a real shame ... because it tells you that some folks don't care about music continuing to be alive and would rather live in the past! I, for one, get tired of any new GENESIS song bs thread .... when there are so many bands out there that deserve much better attention! My guess is that the folks that "believe" in progressive something or other, don't really believe in music ... to them it's all about the top 5, not anything new under the sun! You can tell who these folks are when they compare this to a JT or YES or GENESIS something or other ... meaning the new artist will not get a chance to be heard!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17529 |
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Posted: July 12 2020 at 14:23 |
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Hi, (jokey!!!) Ohhh ... so the site is still mired in DB3 and can not get inside SQL properly or a better improvement than that? The only thing I know is that a database is only as good as the main person running it, and controlling it. And yes, some changes are very tough as it deals with the architecture of the whole thing, and when you have something that big, it could be an issue. But there are ways to get around that ... not discuss'able on this thread! (/jockey!!!) My take on the "new" thing, is that some of these folks are going elsewhere to get away from PA and other sites, where some of these bands do not have a chance to get a fair listen and a fair review, as the majority of its folks are way too involved inside the top ten format of things, up to and INCLUDING the song "format" which was not an option in the early days of progressive music! I can't blame them, and sometimes I wish them success ... however, separation is the worst form of disappointment and luck ... it's hard being so far out there that no one can relate to it or see it or appreciate it. And it's harder when someone says ... the keyboard player is using blah and blah just like Tony Bullaballo did in the band The Skies Opened and Cried $hit ... and honestly, this is the part that PA needs to address ... start separating ADMINS, from REVIEWERS and other folks assigned to the definition and design of the divisions and subdivisions ... but above all, PA would have to say ... your favorites are not allowed and any overt show of that will remove you from that vote we're discussing ... kind of thing ... We have to disrupt the top 5/top 10 thing ... and it has to be the Admins, Reviewers and other special folks at PA ... but, in my book, their choice of folks (sometimes) leaves a lot to be desired ... A LOT ... and I'm not sure those folks should have been there .... let me put it this way ... I managed 2 restaurants for 6 years ... and I would not have hired any of those folks ... and I had a good record with employees ... better paid, and their efficiency was high ... and I also had one of the lowest turnovers in the company in those years ... it wasn't worth being on training mode all the time!!!!! Edited by moshkito - July 12 2020 at 14:24 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 28070 |
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Posted: July 12 2020 at 15:11 |
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This is so so sad. There is just music and that's it. This site quite rightly has a reverence to the great seventies bands that created the genre. If you go too far away from that it becomes something else. The site is absolutely fine as far as I'm concerned but there is strong understanding of that.
Moshkito - why on earth can't you say something constructive for a change? Who are all these folks that are leaving and why aren't you one of them if you are so unhappy here?
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I prophesy disaster
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 31 2017 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 4800 |
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Posted: July 12 2020 at 15:12 |
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I disagree. The people here do seem to have an interest in new music. But, whereas classic 70s prog is an area of commonality between us that allows for rich discussion, interest in new music is quite divergent in that one person's interest do not correspond to other people's interest, and so discussions don't go anywhere. |
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No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man.
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 28070 |
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Posted: July 12 2020 at 15:17 |
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Thieves Kitchen are excellent , clearly I wasn't including them! My favourite album of last year was Waste Of Space Orchestra - Syntheosis but I only found out about via the collaborators lists. But at least that was something and it shows that lists really do have a place. Haken are one of my favourite bands but I also reserve the right to enjoy Lonely Robot and The Mute Gods , no doubt scorned on for not being 'interesting'.
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chopper
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 13 2005 Location: Essex, UK Status: Offline Points: 20030 |
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Posted: July 13 2020 at 03:59 |
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Maybe it's time you volunteered to become an admin then as you are so brilliant?
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Nogbad_The_Bad
Forum & Site Admin Group
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl & Eclectic Team Joined: March 16 2007 Location: Boston Status: Online Points: 20867 |
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Posted: July 13 2020 at 04:28 |
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Why the hell would he be wanted as an admin?
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Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
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Mortte
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 11 2016 Location: Finland Status: Offline Points: 5538 |
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Posted: July 13 2020 at 04:31 |
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Finnish band "Absoluuttinen Nollapiste" made modern prog two part masterpiece "Pisara & Lammas" in 2012-14. So sad no-one non-Finnish canīt understand that great story in it, that has influences from Greek mythology & the Bible. Also those albums are not in spotify or youtube, all the way they got much praising reviews in Finland when they came, but no-one seems to remember them anymore. Hereīs one vid from those in youtube:
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chopper
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 13 2005 Location: Essex, UK Status: Offline Points: 20030 |
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Posted: July 13 2020 at 04:41 |
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 Good question! My feeling is if you're going to continually criticise people who are carrying out a particular role (voluntarily) then you should be prepared to step forward for the role yourself. Whether you'd be accepted or not is a different matter.
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chopper
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Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 13 2005 Location: Essex, UK Status: Offline Points: 20030 |
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Posted: July 13 2020 at 04:53 |
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iNFiNiEN are a new one for me, not come across them before but really good stuff. A bit like Bent Knee but a bit more jazzy.
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Raff
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Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 29 2005 Location: None Status: Offline Points: 24429 |
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Posted: July 13 2020 at 05:15 |
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I am very glad you liked it! Very nice people too. Their guitarist and main composer, Matt Hollenberg, is also involved in a number of more experimental outfits. Anyway, my main point was that finding some modern prog bands not particularly interesting does not automatically mean liking noise. The "panhead" thing might have been funny at first, but after a while it got rather old. As far as I am concerned, I love a good song with a good melody, but a lot of prog bands are not particularly good at songwriting.
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Meltdowner
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Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 25 2013 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 10232 |
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Posted: July 13 2020 at 05:30 |
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Never heard of iNFiNieN but I'll surely listen to them when I have the chance.  |
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chopper
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Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 13 2005 Location: Essex, UK Status: Offline Points: 20030 |
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Posted: July 13 2020 at 06:36 |
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I'm a big fan of The Underfall Yard and English Electric but their more recent releases haven't really grabbed me as much.
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Meltdowner
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Posted: July 13 2020 at 07:35 |
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^ I heard these three albums and also tried a couple of songs from more recent albums, to no avail.
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Raff
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Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 29 2005 Location: None Status: Offline Points: 24429 |
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Posted: July 13 2020 at 07:43 |
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I actually like The Underfall Yard a lot. I reviewed it when I was on Progressor (over 10 years ago), and gave it 6 stars, which is almost the highest rating. However, when I tried listening to their following albums, I found they all sounded the same to my ears.
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Tapfret wrote:
) is more of a wave of bands than a subgenre... it still seems very under promoted at PA. I'd only really heard of the newer bands Spock's Beard, the Mars Volta, Steven Wilson and Dream Theater before making this topic, and I'm not that ignorant. (Well, I don't know... I hadn't heard of Caravan until recently)