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Four non English prog bands from the 70's.........

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AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
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    Posted: July 07 2020 at 19:09
........to break through commercially in the US in the 70's. 

I could be wrong on this but it seems to me that there were only four bands not from England to achieve some kind of signifcant success in the 70's (in the US at least). Those bands were:

1. Focus
2. PFM
3. Kansas
4. Rush

All four charted in the US (yes even PFM believe it or not).

Some people might say Nektar(who also charted but they were English so I don't really count them). Some might say Triumvirat but I don't think they had any real chart success in the US. Also, Eloy didn't break through in America and neither did Banco. Tangerine Dream might have but they were more electronic and probably not really considered progressive rock at the time. Also, I don't really count Styx since they were closer to art rock/pomp rock or even arena rock.

I would be curious to know if there any from the 80's or 90's(or even later)but I doubt it.


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - July 07 2020 at 19:16
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote dougmcauliffe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2020 at 19:15
Mother Dear and A Day by Styx, really great prog tunes with the former being especially unique, the later sounds like the love child of Take a Pebble and Sailors Tale. I got nothing to add though.

Edited by dougmcauliffe - July 07 2020 at 19:18
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2020 at 19:20
Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Mother Dear and A Day by Styx, really great prog tunes with the former being especially unique. I got nothing to add though.

I know Styx had prog or proggy tracks back then but I had a hard time justifying their inclusion so I figured I would leave them off. 

I see that Ambrosia's first album charted so there's at least one already that I missed. However, that could be more art rockish also imo. 


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - July 07 2020 at 19:31
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2020 at 19:25
another one that charted in the states...

Bo Hansson 




Edited by micky - July 07 2020 at 19:25
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2020 at 19:30
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

another one that charted in the states...

Bo Hansson 




From wikipedia: " It was also moderately successful in America, where it reached number 154 on the Billboard Top LPs & Tapes chart.[7] ." 

Yep. Right you are. Bo Hansson wasn't a band but I won't be a d@#k about it. Wink It seems "Lord of the Rings" did even better than PFM's "Photos of Ghosts." 


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - July 08 2020 at 00:58
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Easy Money Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2020 at 19:41
Journey was a sort of progressive rock band for the first couple albums. They were often the opening act for visiting English prog bands back then
There is also Return to Forever, the Santana band and Zappa and the Mothers. Mahavishnu Orchestra is multi-national.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2020 at 19:48
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Journey was a sort of progressive rock band for the first couple albums. They were often the opening act for visiting English prog bands back then
There is also Return to Forever, the Santana band and Zappa and the Mothers. Mahavishnu Orchestra is multi-national.

Imo, Journey are on the bubble like Styx. Styx are crossover prog on here but Journey are only prog related. The early Journey albums were very proggish at least. A bit jazz rockish also.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Easy Money Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2020 at 20:24
The first three or more Chicago albums are progressive rock.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2020 at 21:24
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

The first three or more Chicago albums are progressive rock.


Unfortunately not everyone agrees with that. I remember telling my brother I thought Chicago were prog and he has seen them in concert and told me that nothing he heard sounded like prog. Maybe they cut the prog stuff from their set I don't know. Someone on here got on my case because I didn't make a distinction between prog and progressive rock. A band like Chicago is a good case for his point though. They were progressive rock but I have a hard time thinking of them as prog. Ultimately I will pass since I don't consider Chicago to be a prog band. They are kind of the same as Journey in that they started in that direction but ultimately became something different. 

Anyway, according to wikipedia only the first two and the seventh one are progressive rock and even those have other categories as well. They are crossover on here though.


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - July 07 2020 at 23:51
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2020 at 21:27
Ok, I stand corrected on a bunch of things. First of all Ambrosia, Styx and Journey are all prog related on here and Chicago is jazz/rock fusion so none of those get added to the list. I kind of wanted to add Ambrosia but if I make an exception for one I would have to do it for all of them and then it could just get a bit silly. 

A case could be made for Zappa but Santana, Mahavishnu, RTF, Weather Report, etc are all jazz rock/fusion imo. May as well mention Steely Dan. LOL Yes, they are all on here but I think this site has a defintion of prog that goes way beyond what could normally be considered prog by most.


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - July 07 2020 at 21:36
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Awesoreno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2020 at 23:24
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

The first three or more Chicago albums are progressive rock.


Unfortunately not everyone agrees with that. I remember telling my brother I thought Chicago were prog and he has seen them in concert and told me that nothing he heard sounded like prog. Maybe they cut the prog stuff from their set I don't know. Someone on here got on my case because I didn't make a distinction between prog and progressive rock. A band like Chicago is a good case for his point though. They were progressive rock but I have a time of thinking of them as prog. Ultimately I will pass since I don't consider Chicago to be a prog band. They are kind of the same as Journey in that they started in that direction but ultimately became something different. 

Anyway, according to wikipedia only the first two and the seventh one are progressive rock and even those have other categories as well. They are crossover on here though.

I think that was me haha. Thanks for giving my point some credit. Though I think your view on it is valid as well.

As for Chicago, I would take a listen to get a better sense of them, particularly the first five albums (well, the fourth is a triple live album, but it's between III and V, so they consider it four I guess). These ones have the most amount of prog moments. And yes, I mean Prog, with multi-track suites, extended fusion solos, and some modernist classical compositional techniques, almost Zappa-esque (particularly II and III). VI is ok, shows where they were going, which was more commercial territory; the first disc of VII is very fusion-oriented, while the second disc is more like VI. After that, they kind of lost the prog until maybe their comeback with XX. If we could ascribe multiple genres here on PA, I'd say Chicago's first five albums live right in the sweet spot between Crossover and Fusion.

They were incredibly popular in the States and elsewhere, and if you can include Kansas, who are also mostly beloved on this site for their first five albums, I could see Chicago on that list. However, they certainly are not as influential in the prog realm as the four you have listed, so I could understand not including them. Especially if you're being strict on the fusion exclusion (that's a catchy phrase, "fusion exclusion" heh).


Edited by Awesoreno - July 07 2020 at 23:26
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2020 at 00:34
Dutch band Kayak did have some minor success in the US in the late seventies but their only chart entry was 55 in the Billboard charts with the single Want You To Be Mine

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2020 at 00:49
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Dutch band Kayak did have some minor success in the US in the late seventies but their only chart entry was 55 in the Billboard charts with the single Want You To Be Mine


I don't think any of their albums charted in the US though and that song is rather disco sounding. May as well suggest ABBA. :P Wink Actually I wish I could include them since I like Kayak quite a bit.


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - July 08 2020 at 00:51
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2020 at 00:53
I just realized what other US band qualifies and that is Utopia. All their seventies albums charted in the top 100 album charts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2020 at 02:47
Tai Phong had a kinda sorta hit single (Sister Jane) I think. I don't think it was ever at no. 1 but it did get some radio play.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2020 at 05:37
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

...
Anyway, according to wikipedia only the first two and the seventh one are progressive rock and even those have other categories as well. They are crossover on here though.

Hi,

Ohhhh ... so now Wiki is the boss in ideas and comments!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2020 at 11:45
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

...
Anyway, according to wikipedia only the first two and the seventh one are progressive rock and even those have other categories as well. They are crossover on here though.

Hi,

Ohhhh ... so now Wiki is the boss in ideas and comments!

Angry

They are often just as reliable as this site. Tongue

Anyway, it turns out Chicago are jazz rock/fusion on here so if I include them I also have to include all the other jazz rock/fusion bands including the ones that were mentioned already. 


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - July 08 2020 at 11:57
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dwill123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2020 at 16:39
Fireballet (first album "Night On Bald Mountain" produced by Ian McDonald).  The first album had limited but respectable success earning them a lot of air play in the Ney City area.  Their second album ('Two, too...') tanked. (possibly because of the hideous cover).  They eventually changed it.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2020 at 16:51
There was only one Dutch prog band who were the Focus of attention in England in the 1970's, although I've since discovered many other great Dutch bands since I first visited ProgArchives back in 2010. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2020 at 17:25
Fireballet is certainly a band I have heard of (I even have a t shirt by them that I got for free) but I don't think they had any chart success in the US. 

I was just about to mention Supertramp and add them to the list until I realized they are from the UK. Doh! 

The Dixie Dregs are worth mentioning but they are more jazz rock/fusion plus not sure they charted anyway. 

I thought of the band Zebra but although they had one song I personally consider to be a prog classic("who's behind the door")over all they were more hard rock and I don't even think they are on this site as prog related. Nonetheless they somehow managed to headline one year at Rosfest and they were great. So they are imo at least worth mentioning(since they did chart) even though they don't quite hit the mark in the prog department.

I did find another one that does fit the bill though and that is the band Art in America. They are on here as symphonic prog although maybe crossover might be more accurate imo. Their debut made it to number 176.





Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - July 08 2020 at 17:26
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