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Catcher10 
Forum Senior Member
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Points: 17966
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 Posted: June 26 2020 at 09:55 |
I don't think Trump is going to win, so coming "unhinged" is not needed. Back to back wins is a major issue IMO. All Biden can offer is being nice, talking very middle of the road and not really taking a side on any issue, he will be a pleasing POTUS, meaning he will please what ever crowd he needs to for zero confrontations. Borders will be wide open, trade deals that protect the American worker/jobs will be dismantled and we will have an unGodly amount of money spent on restart of Obamacare again....especially since Biden says we have had "120 million Covid deaths..."  |
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micky
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Joined: October 02 2005
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Points: 46838
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Posted: June 26 2020 at 09:48 |
yep... that he is...
there will come a point where the GOP bails on Trump.. knowing they have lost the Presidency.. but still might have a chance to hold on to the Senate. I think that time will come sooner than most might think.. again.. we are in a completely different reality than 2016 here. I think if Trump doesn't do a complete 180 in the next month.. they bail.. to try to give themselves enough time to try to save the Senate.
Personally I don't think Trump will suddenly become what he has never been.. in 3 1/2 years as President.. or his entire pathetic f**kign life hahah. A leader.. emphatic.. thinking of others first.. not himself
What he is doing now is a strong reflection of just how out of touch he is with the new reality.. the new reality of what his Presidency has done to America. Moved it not rightward.. but leftward
Trump is doubling down on the police, statues and protests for a reason. He thnks it will work
The first thought of someone my age is Nixon and law and order,” said an adviser to Biden, who is white and in his late 60s and admitted concern early on that the protests could benefit Trump. The person was granted anonymity in order to speak candidly. “But as long as we don’t have a reversion to looting and lawlessness, as long as it’s peaceful and about the inequality of society and the treatment of African Americans, this has seen a shift in Biden’s direction—and more than we thought it would be.”
Trump is playing this for a reason.. it has a target audience but...
The expected revolt of white suburbanites against the protests hasn’t materialized. Instead, they’ve joined them.
Edited by micky - June 26 2020 at 09:49
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10679
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Posted: June 26 2020 at 09:29 |
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Trump's endorsed candidates just lost two elections. A libertarian, I forget his name, who was particularly villified by trump, was one winner.
Here again we see trump at odds with true conservative values. As pointed out earlier, trump is not only a failure as a progressive, but also a failure as a conservative. I think he is coming unhinged.
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Help the victims of the russian invasion:
http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
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Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
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Points: 10679
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Posted: June 26 2020 at 09:25 |
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Re Mickey: Another high profile republican has come out against trump, Carly Fiorina. You may recall trump unnecessarily insulting her looks during the debates.
One of the dumbest things trump has done is create enemies where it was not needed to do so.
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Help the victims of the russian invasion:
http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446
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BaldJean
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 28 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10387
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Posted: June 26 2020 at 09:10 |
 Lewian wrote:
npjnpj wrote:
Just a quick word about the confederate flags and statues. I know about the argument concerning American history etc., but I can't for the life of me understand why they're still there. Descriptive history is in books, not in monuments.
Imagine a world where Germany, in the year 2020, would be thinking about taking statues of Hitler, Goering, and Goebbels down, and additionally debating whether to stop flying the Swastika on public buildings.
It beggars belief.
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The Germans lost the war though. Had they won chances are it would be very different indeed. As a German I am very suspicious of the idea that the Germans have somehow become immune of such things be it by bad experience or (even less credible) by intelligence. You can see things in current German discourse that are frightening. At this very moment it's a minority thing but before Covid that minority grew year to year (not sure to what extent Covid has stopped that). And if the Germans submit to such thought as a majority... well let's say one thing that seems pretty German to me is to do thoroughly whatever we do, good or bad... 
Surely being interested in American politics is a good thing also for a German, but there's a lot of stuff going on closer to you that is worthwhile keeping an eye on...
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while I basically agree with you I see the situation in Germany a bit different. the rise of the political party AfD (Alternative für Deutschland), which you probably refer to, is especially pronounced in Saxony, Saxony-Anhalt, Thuringia, Brandenburg and Mecklenburg-West Pomerania, the five federal states that constituted the former GDR. they were promised "blooming landscapes" by Helmut Kohl, but the truth is that they are on an economic decline, and many people living there are desperate. and desperate people will take to desperate measures.
this economic decline is what needs to be fought. and the people see very little effort by the politicians to change their destitute situation. they are losing faith in them and thus are easy prey for the far right demagogues of the AfD.
if you want to fight the AfD then you have to put money into the economy of these federal states. but that's not what is happening right now. and, like you, I fear what may come of it.
when politicians are asked about why there is not enough economic support for these federal states they will speak of "practical constraints" and "inherent necessities". but the people are tired of hearing about them. they want a scapegoat. and looking for a scapegoat often leads to xenophobia and racism
Edited by BaldJean - June 26 2020 at 09:16
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 A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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micky
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Joined: October 02 2005
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Points: 46838
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Posted: June 26 2020 at 09:06 |
well 4 months out now.. .. I think the next month will be very telling... answering a basic question I think many of us have wondered.
Is Trump's narcissism so complete he has zero.. nadda.. NO ability to admit he was wrong.. and change course.
I've read more and more GOP folk are telling him.. you need to stop what you are doing (and been doing for 3.5 years) or you are goiing to get crushed.
series of polls came out yesterday.. A+ rated pollster by the geeks at 538
because this is what the election looks like.. if Trump doesn't change and plays to the fantasy that there are milliopns of forgottten and unknown voters out there. Even if a major slip by Biden will not save him.. he never trailed HRC like this.. and pollsters are not wrong here.. this is well WELL outside the bounds of standard error. As I have long said.. 40%.. get you destroyed in general election.
this is what it would look like if the eldction were held today.. but the problem they are pointing out to Trump is... something has to change.. to change this. Will he listen.. is his self preservation mechanism greater than his self delusion and narcissism. As one prominent GOP politician said off the record.. 'he didn't think he'd win in 2016. He doesn't think he'll lose in 2020"
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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micky
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Joined: October 02 2005
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Points: 46838
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Posted: June 26 2020 at 08:50 |
Hercules wrote:
But what really baffles me is the American obsession with the flag and the National Anthem.
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hmmm.. trying to decide if that is a first .. now second beer of the day quesstion.. or seeing two monitors kind of reply which is when I do my best writing.. if not the most legible.
so that is indedd a valid question and one worthy of a good answer.. but that answer could turn into an essay so I'll go with still sober reply. 
I suspect you in the course of your substantial education you did take a few history classes and about your empire losing the colonies. Ameica truly is a unique country.. and has a very uinique culture. One my wife still is left befuddled by at times trying to understand and she has lived here for 12 years.
that obsession you call it.. is not as much for the flag itself but what it represents. A country that took in my grandparents.. at one time every goddamn one of our grandparents and gave them a chance of a better life where they were had freedom and a chance, regardless of where they came from, to pursue happiness.
I know the reality of this country has never lived up to the ideal.. but if the ideal itself is not treasured than we would hever have a chance to live up the lofty ideals this country was based upon.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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BaldJean
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 28 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10387
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Posted: June 26 2020 at 08:47 |
rushfan4 wrote:
While I agree with you 100%, the flag and the National Anthem are important for what they symbolize. We are the "Home of the Brave and the Land of the Free" and that is what they symbolize. Our soldiers are trained to give their lives to protect this flag and what it symbolizes. Honestly, I think of it as a really good job of brainwashing but Americans are all about rooting for our teams and rah rah America is our team. It really isn't much different to the horror certain people feel when people burn a bible or a Koran. It is just a book...a set of papers that are bound together with words on them that can be found in every hotel room bedroom in America, but "heaven forbid" someone desecrate this book. Again it is about what it symbolizes...and again it is the result of a history of brainwashing passed down from generation to generation. |
this is what I call "confusing the menu and the dish". you should care less about the symbol but instead what the symbol stands for. there is no use in worshiping a symbol when what it stands for is no longer true.
but sadly worshiping symbols often leads to forgetting what they stand for. that's why dictatorial regimes love symbols: they distract from reality
Edited by BaldJean - June 26 2020 at 08:53
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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20617
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Posted: June 26 2020 at 07:43 |
Atavachron wrote:
Saw a new anti-Biden ad last night highlighting his best mumbling, bumbling, dribbling & drowsing moments.
Oh it's good.
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Yeah man, I can't wait to see how Saturday Night Live rips on Joe if he's elected. It will be classic stuff!
Edited by SteveG - June 26 2020 at 07:43
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This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10679
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Posted: June 26 2020 at 07:39 |
Lewian wrote:
npjnpj wrote:
Just a quick word about the confederate flags and statues. I know about the argument concerning American history etc., but I can't for the life of me understand why they're still there. Descriptive history is in books, not in monuments.
Imagine a world where Germany, in the year 2020, would be thinking about taking statues of Hitler, Goering, and Goebbels down, and additionally debating whether to stop flying the Swastika on public buildings.
It beggars belief.
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The Germans lost the war though. Had they won chances are it would be very different indeed. As a German I am very suspicious of the idea that the Germans have somehow become immune of such things be it by bad experience or (even less credible) by intelligence. You can see things in current German discourse that are frightening. At this very moment it's a minority thing but before Covid that minority grew year to year (not sure to what extent Covid has stopped that). And if the Germans submit to such thought as a majority... well let's say one thing that seems pretty German to me is to do thoroughly whatever we do, good or bad...
Surely being interested in American politics is a good thing also for a German, but there's a lot of stuff going on closer to you that is worthwhile keeping an eye on...
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Yes, focusing on someone else's problems makes it convenient to ignore your own. At this point, I don't think there is a country in this world that is immune to fascist tendencies. The appeal of nationalism seems to be growing worldwide.
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Help the victims of the russian invasion:
http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20617
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Posted: June 26 2020 at 03:59 |
Man With Hat wrote:
If only people would actually be in love with the things it symbolizes instead of the actual symbol. |
This is, hands down, the best post that I've ever seen in any PA thread and will now be my new signature. Well done Hat Man.
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This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
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Lewian
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 09 2015
Location: Italy
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Points: 15153
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Posted: June 26 2020 at 02:37 |
npjnpj wrote:
Just a quick word about the confederate flags and statues. I know about the argument concerning American history etc., but I can't for the life of me understand why they're still there. Descriptive history is in books, not in monuments.
Imagine a world where Germany, in the year 2020, would be thinking about taking statues of Hitler, Goering, and Goebbels down, and additionally debating whether to stop flying the Swastika on public buildings.
It beggars belief.
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The Germans lost the war though. Had they won chances are it would be very different indeed. As a German I am very suspicious of the idea that the Germans have somehow become immune of such things be it by bad experience or (even less credible) by intelligence. You can see things in current German discourse that are frightening. At this very moment it's a minority thing but before Covid that minority grew year to year (not sure to what extent Covid has stopped that). And if the Germans submit to such thought as a majority... well let's say one thing that seems pretty German to me is to do thoroughly whatever we do, good or bad...
Surely being interested in American politics is a good thing also for a German, but there's a lot of stuff going on closer to you that is worthwhile keeping an eye on...
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Man With Hat
Collaborator
Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team
Joined: March 12 2005
Location: Neurotica
Status: Offline
Points: 166183
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Posted: June 25 2020 at 23:42 |
rushfan4 wrote:
While I agree with you 100%, the flag and the National Anthem are important for what they symbolize. We are the "Home of the Brave and the Land of the Free" and that is what they symbolize. Our soldiers are trained to give their lives to protect this flag and what it symbolizes. Honestly, I think of it as a really good job of brainwashing but Americans are all about rooting for our teams and rah rah America is our team. It really isn't much different to the horror certain people feel when people burn a bible or a Koran. It is just a book...a set of papers that are bound together with words on them that can be found in every hotel room bedroom in America, but "heaven forbid" someone desecrate this book. Again it is about what it symbolizes...and again it is the result of a history of brainwashing passed down from generation to generation. |
If only people would actually be in love with the things it symbolizes instead of the actual symbol.
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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
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Catcher10
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Joined: December 23 2009
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Points: 17966
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Posted: June 25 2020 at 23:24 |
npjnpj wrote:
Because it seems like a deliberate distraction to keep Americans from looking to where the real action is. People dying of a plague? Sing a national anthem. Soldiers being killed in the Middle East: Salute a flag. Trump f*cked something up again: Ooh look: two UFOs. The only function I can see is that whenever anything turns up that could make people feel bad, worried, or just plain puzzled: Let's sing about how great we all are and it'll all go away, just like the COVID deaths and infections. No substance, just feelgood fodder.
It wasn't like that before; it was a noble thing, but not any more, as far as I can see.
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You lose me by bringing in the current administration, which has nothing to do with your premise. Every administration has used the flag and anthem as a vehicle to pump up the nation, especially when tragedy happens. I would have no issue saying that you would be hard pressed to find a US soldier who does not fight for the flag....call it loyalty, service, duty, honor and unless you've done it you can't comprehend it. If we really thought singing the anthem would make C19 go away, then that's all that would be on TV 24/7.
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npjnpj
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Joined: December 05 2007
Location: Germany
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Points: 2720
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Posted: June 25 2020 at 19:31 |
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Point taken
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rushfan4
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Posted: June 25 2020 at 19:25 |
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While I agree with you 100%, the flag and the National Anthem are important for what they symbolize. We are the "Home of the Brave and the Land of the Free" and that is what they symbolize. Our soldiers are trained to give their lives to protect this flag and what it symbolizes. Honestly, I think of it as a really good job of brainwashing but Americans are all about rooting for our teams and rah rah America is our team. It really isn't much different to the horror certain people feel when people burn a bible or a Koran. It is just a book...a set of papers that are bound together with words on them that can be found in every hotel room bedroom in America, but "heaven forbid" someone desecrate this book. Again it is about what it symbolizes...and again it is the result of a history of brainwashing passed down from generation to generation.
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npjnpj
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 05 2007
Location: Germany
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Points: 2720
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Posted: June 25 2020 at 17:59 |
Because it seems like a deliberate distraction to keep Americans from looking to where the real action is. People dying of a plague? Sing a national anthem. Soldiers being killed in the Middle East: Salute a flag. Trump f*cked something up again: Ooh look: two UFOs. The only function I can see is that whenever anything turns up that could make people feel bad, worried, or just plain puzzled: Let's sing about how great we all are and it'll all go away, just like the COVID deaths and infections. No substance, just feelgood fodder.
It wasn't like that before; it was a noble thing, but not any more, as far as I can see.
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Catcher10
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Posted: June 25 2020 at 17:33 |
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Nobody is asking or requesting that you understand the American flag or the national anthem. What I don't understand is everyone's desire to...understand it.
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Atavachron
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Posted: June 25 2020 at 17:28 |
Hercules wrote:
As a Brit, I find it extremely hard to be thankful that we have a buffoon like Boris Jjohnson as our leader. But then I look at the US and thank my lucky stars. Trump's sheer awfulness beggars belief that any country could have enough stupid people to elect him.
But what really baffles me is the American obsession with the flag and the National Anthem. I would no more sing God Save the Queen than eat a baby and I certainly don't stand when it's played: such icons belong to a past era (though I'm pleased the Queen is going to be saved, and God's probably the person to do it). Nor does the Union Jack instil any pride in me at all. |
Johnson is a raving idiot. The main difference is that Johnson's IQ is higher than Trump's and he has a modicum of humanity, but his judgement & politics are about as bad.
America has no 'past era' compared to Europe. Our past spans the last 250 odd years, a drop in the bucket. And you can't tell me a large number of Canucks don't get weepy when they hear Oh,Canada. Heck, I get weepy when I hear it.
Her Majesty's a pretty nice girl
But she doesn't have a lot to say
Her Majesty's a pretty nice girl
But she changes from day to day
I wanna tell her that I love her a lot
But I gotta get a belly full of wine
Her Majesty's a pretty nice girl
Someday I'm gonna make her mine, oh yeah
Someday I'm gonna make her mine
Edited by Atavachron - June 25 2020 at 17:31
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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npjnpj
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 05 2007
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 2720
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Posted: June 25 2020 at 17:13 |
Just a quick word about the confederate flags and statues. I know about the argument concerning American history etc., but I can't for the life of me understand why they're still there. Descriptive history is in books, not in monuments.
Imagine a world where Germany, in the year 2020, would be thinking about taking statues of Hitler, Goering, and Goebbels down, and additionally debating whether to stop flying the Swastika on public buildings.
It beggars belief.
Edited by npjnpj - June 25 2020 at 17:15
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The American Politics Thread
