America - Where’s Your Empire?

The American empire is not an empire of geography but of minds. That's why it's impossible to put up any resistance and why it's destined to be victorious beyond the wildest dream of Napoleon and Hitler combined.

And Donny Osmond

Cheers for that America.

What the United States has done in terms of gaining power is in a sense revolutionary... previously in history, empires were forged by armies marching far and wide, taking control of everything that came in their way.... from Rome to the Soviet Union. The major flaw behind this type of empire is that each had a territorial breaking point... once to far outstretched, the empire couldn't hold itself together. The United States built an empire on wealth and commerce unparalleled in human history. Great example is when Reagan took office in 1980 and asked his secretary of defense how they were going to beat the Soviets. The conversation went something like this:

"Do we have more weapons?"

"No Mr.President"

"Do we have more troops?"

"No Mr.President"

"Planes? Tanks?"

"No Mr.President"

"Well.... what can we beat them with then?"

"Well we have more money Mr.President..."

"Then we'll beat them with that."

And, by 1990, that victory was indeed made with money... the US just had to sit it out and watch the Soviets suffocate themselves.

...The US gave Jazz too, without which prog would suffer

Do we REALLY need another America bashing thread? Also, for Ivan's sake..Let's just call this a USA bashing thread.

 

All:

I would have to agree (at least in part) with Sweetnighter here, in the sense that the "definition" of "empire" may have changed over the years.

As Sweetnighter notes, an "empire" used to be, at least primarily, the ownership and control of "real estate" (and economies of those countries it held), usually by force or threat of force.  However, I think the operative word is no longer "real estate" but "control" - in any sense, by any means.

In that regard, it is not simply money that determines the "American" empire.  Consider:

-Culture.  American "culture" has become globally predominant.  American "exports" re music, fashion, film, etc. have spread to - and, in a figurative if not literal sense, predominate in - almost every country.  Think of Coca-Cola, McDonald's (in all but two of the sovereign nations of the world), Disney, etc.  Yes, there are other centers for fashion (Milan, London, Paris et al), music (England, Germany, Italy et al), film (India, Italy, England et al), etc.,  and other "global" "brands" (e.g., Virgin).  But America is without question the "cultural leader" of the world.  This creates a sort of "hegemony" all by itself.  As an aside, the U.S. TV media "stole" most of its "reality TV" ideas from British programs.  Yet the British were unable to "sell" them to the rest of the world, while the U.S. has been successfully selling them throughout the globe (and thereby continuing to "dumb down" the cultures of other countries...).

-Language.  More people speak English than any other language (except perhaps Chinese, but that is simply due to sheer numbers).  True, the British started this during the creation of their empire.  But the U.S. influence in "forcing" English on almost every other nation cannot be questioned.  Somehow, Americans don't think they should have to learn to speak a second language; yet they believe everyone in the whole world should speak theirs.  And more people in more countries speak English than any other language other than their native tongue (i.e., as a second language).  If this is not a global "hegemony" of sorts - as well as one definition of "empire" - I don't know what is.

-Money.  Whether up or down, the dollar still determines the remainder of the world's financial markets.  And the U.S. economy, even at its worst, is still bigger - by far - than the economy of any other country, or even group of countries.  Indeed, the creation of a "United States of Europe" - and the development of the euro, etc. - is a direct reflection of just how powerful the American economy really is: i.e., that it takes over a dozen major countries joining together to simply create a relative "parity" of economies.

This is just a very quick, simplistic look at the global scene.  I know there are many more examples of America's "empire," as "newly" defined.  However, I am in a hurry.  If I think of more, I will post them.

Peace.

Fitzcarraldo wrote: If it wasn't for the USA, Britain and the other European countries mentioned by sigod (including the neutral countries mentioned) might still be part of an empire: either a Nazi empire or a Soviet empire (probably the latter). Collective memory is very short.

Well said, Fitz.

Some of the smugly anti-American folk on this forum would do well to bear the above in mind. Having been born free, they too often seem to take that freedom for granted, and forget the thousands of young Americans (Canadians, Newfoundlanders, Aussies, and New Zealanders too) who lie far from home in European graves, having laid down their lives to overthrow an evil, genocidal tyranny for the greater good of all. All that you enjoy most about your rights and freedom has been dearly paid for in blood. You might want to ponder upon that as you sip your coffee and listen to your music today.

Yes, America is now the most powerful nation in the world (as Greece, Rome, the Mongol Empire, France & England were before), but it is not the most evil nation in the world -- far from it. That is our reality -- get over it.

Global history and politics is a complex, organic, ever-evolving thing. I hate to see people simplify it along the lines of: "America is powerful. Power is bad. American culture is spreading everywhere (even into good old, student-crushing communist China) Wah."

No, I certainly don't applaud everything America does or represents on the global stage, but I ask you: what other country would have served as a better counterweight to the murderous global-domination agenda of the Nazis, Japanese, & Soviets? At any given period in history, one country has to be the most powerful. If not America, who exactly would you rather it was? 

Besides bitching about the ebb and flow of great nations and political systems, and throwing up your hands in despair at your seeming insignificance and powerlessness, what are YOU doing to make the world immediately around you better? What values are you teaching your children? Are you a part of the problem, or of the solution?

Some people here seem to want this forum of (mostly) like-minded music fans to disintegrate into mutually intolerant, prejudiced factions. When they have little to say, they try to stir things up, and pick a fight with people that they do not know. You probably have a neighbour who is wealthier/more powerful than you are -- why not go throw a brick through his window instead?

What an inane thread. Baiting others because they don't live where you do.

The boy across the street/block/city/ocean is bad....

 

Peter wrote: Fitzcarraldo wrote: If it wasn't for the USA, Britain and the other European countries mentioned by sigod (including the neutral countries mentioned) might still be part of an empire: either a Nazi empire or a Soviet empire (probably the latter). Collective memory is very short. Well said, Fitz. Some of the smugly anti-American folk on this forum would do well to bear the above in mind. Having been born free, they too often seem to take that freedom for granted, and forget the thousands of young Americans (Canadians, Newfoundlanders, Aussies, and New Zealanders too) who lie far from home in European graves, having laid down their lives to overthrow an evil, genocidal tyranny for the greater good of all. All that you enjoy most about your rights and freedom has been dearly paid for in blood. You might want to ponder upon that as you sip your coffee and listen to your music today. Yes, America is now the most powerful nation in the world (as Greece, Rome, the Mongol Empire, France & England were before), but it is not the most evil nation in the world -- far from it. That is our reality -- get over it. Global history and politics is a complex, organic, ever-evolving thing. I hate to see people simplify it along the lines of: "America is powerful. Power is bad. American culture is spreading everywhere (even into good old, student-crushing communist China) Wah." No, I certainly don't applaud everything America does or represents on the global stage, but I ask you: what other country would have served as a better counterweight to the murderous global-domination agenda of the Nazis, Japanese, & Soviets? At any given period in history, one country has to be the most powerful. If not America, who exactly would you rather it was?  Besides bitching about the ebb and flow of great nations and political systems, and throwing up your hands in despair at your seeming insignificance and powerlessness, what are YOU doing to make the world immediately around you better? What values are you teaching your children? Are you a part of the problem, or of the solution? Some people here seem to want this forum of (mostly) like-minded music fans to disintegrate into mutually intolerant, prejudiced factions. When they have little to say, they try to stir things up, and pick a fight with people that they do not know. You probably have a neighbour who is wealthier/more powerful than you are -- why not go throw a brick through his window instead? What an inane thread. Baiting others because they don't live where you do. The boy across the street/block/city/ocean is bad....

.....I think Reed lover has more money than me....can I toss a brick through his window?

Reed Lover wrote: gdub411 wrote: Peter wrote: Fitzcarraldo wrote: If it wasn't for the USA, Britain and the other European countries mentioned by sigod (including the neutral countries mentioned) might still be part of an empire: either a Nazi empire or a Soviet empire (probably the latter). Collective memory is very short. Well said, Fitz. Some of the smugly anti-American folk on this forum would do well to bear the above in mind. Having been born free, they too often seem to take that freedom for granted, and forget the thousands of young Americans (Canadians, Newfoundlanders, Aussies, and New Zealanders too) who lie far from home in European graves, having laid down their lives to overthrow an evil, genocidal tyranny for the greater good of all. All that you enjoy most about your rights and freedom has been dearly paid for in blood. You might want to ponder upon that as you sip your coffee and listen to your music today. Yes, America is now the most powerful nation in the world (as Greece, Rome, the Mongol Empire, France & England were before), but it is not the most evil nation in the world -- far from it. That is our reality -- get over it. Global history and politics is a complex, organic, ever-evolving thing. I hate to see people simplify it along the lines of: "America is powerful. Power is bad. American culture is spreading everywhere (even into good old, student-crushing communist China) Wah." No, I certainly don't applaud everything America does or represents on the global stage, but I ask you: what other country would have served as a better counterweight to the murderous global-domination agenda of the Nazis, Japanese, & Soviets? At any given period in history, one country has to be the most powerful. If not America, who exactly would you rather it was?  Besides bitching about the ebb and flow of great nations and political systems, and throwing up your hands in despair at your seeming insignificance and powerlessness, what are YOU doing to make the world immediately around you better? What values are you teaching your children? Are you a part of the problem, or of the solution? Some people here seem to want this forum of (mostly) like-minded music fans to disintegrate into mutually intolerant, prejudiced factions. When they have little to say, they try to stir things up, and pick a fight with people that they do not know. You probably have a neighbour who is wealthier/more powerful than you are -- why not go throw a brick through his window instead? What an inane thread. Baiting others because they don't live where you do. The boy across the street/block/city/ocean is bad....   .....I think Reed lover has more money than me....can I toss a brick through his window? You're not tossing anything near my window!

That's not what you're telling me last night Big Boy!

This post is going to be very difficult to understand; I'm finding it difficult to phrase my thoughts. Basically, because of the power of the States, the bad things about it become much more obvious. If there were companies in Luxembourg exploiting thirrd world workers (and I'm not saying there aren't), nobody would notice! People who want to make a change concentrate on the most obvious threat, and with the US being the most powerful country, it is seen as the most obvious threat. There are more rich Americans that can do bad things, and so more bad things are done by Americans than most other countries.

Look at celebrities: whenever they do something "wrong", the press hound them, and people get upset. If you or I were to do something scandalous, it would hardly reach national news and make as hated figures (well, it depends on how scandalous, I suppose).

Reedy: See Thomas Paine -- The Rights of Man, for one positive American contribution.

See a democratic Germany and Japan for two more.

Hopefully soon, we will also see an American-initiated (& largely funded) global tsunami warning system.

See Jayne Mansfield, Racquel Welch, Marilyn Monroe , country, folk, bluegrass, blues, jazz, rock and roll, and Echolyn for more.

(No excuse for Stynx, though....)

BTW: Happy New Year, chum!