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The Police??? |
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Steve Wyzard 
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Joined: March 30 2017 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 2583 |
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 Topic: The Police???Posted: May 05 2020 at 10:44 |
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I realize I am about to open a huge can of hair-splitting worms here, but I'm really interested in knowing:
Why do Talking Heads qualify to be part of this site as Prog Related... ...while The Police do not qualify to be part of this site at all?
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Psychedelic Paul
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Posted: May 05 2020 at 11:30 |
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Let the can of worms wriggle free, and use them as angling bait for another debate about prog. Personally, I don't think Talking Heads OR The Police should be included in ProgArchives.
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Cristi
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Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Online Points: 43682 |
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Posted: May 05 2020 at 11:35 |
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http://www.progarchives.com/subgenre.asp?style=38">http://www.progarchives.com/subgenre.asp?style=38
read about it first nobody is saying Talking Heads is a prog band.
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Logan
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Posted: May 05 2020 at 11:39 |
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Each act is evaluated on its own merits on a case-by-case basis but also compared to the most relevant related material/ acts that are in Prog Archives. Police are most Prog Related in terms of members in albums included in the Prog categories, I'd say.
Andy Summers collaborated with Robert Fripp. Stewart Copeland was involved with Curved Air (in Eclectic), Oysterhead (in Prog Related) and Stewart Copeland is in Prog Related (the related to related part doesn't present such a strong case). With Taking Heads, there is the Eno connection and Adrian Belew. David Byrne is included in Crossover Prog,Brian Eno is in Progressive Electronic,Adrian Belew is included in Eclectic Prog, and there is that King Crimson connection. King Crimson's Discipline reminds me very much of Talking Heads and of course Belew joined King Crimson. The way that Prog Related tends to work is that if an act is seen to have sufficient support for PA, good relevant arguments are made for the addition that satisfy various of the Prog Related criteria (showing the relations) and then a Special Collab supports it and put it to the Admin, then the admin agree to it, then it is included. The Police have been suggested to PA in a poll form, but it didn't have much support (most were against it), I don't think really strong arguments were put forward for including it (The Talking Heads are here therefore The Police should also be would not be a good argument for inclusion), and I don't know that a Special Collab ever brought it forward to Admin. I didn't follow the Talking Heads or The Police discussions closely By the way, I moved this topic to General Music Discussions because the subforum you placed it in is intended for acts included in prog categories. |
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AFlowerKingCrimson
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Posted: May 05 2020 at 12:21 |
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No idea. The Police should be on here as prog related but so should the Tubes and XTC as well as a few others probably.
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Steve Wyzard
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Posted: May 05 2020 at 17:51 |
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Thank you for your detailed reply and for taking the idea into consideration!
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richardh
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Posted: May 06 2020 at 00:08 |
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I'd have no problem with The Police being included although one of the arguments for inclusion used to be that they should have made at least one 'prog' album. The first 3 Police albums are very much Indie/New Wave but you can se clearly they were stretching into new areas and embracing more experimentation on Ghost In The Machine and Synchronicity . The best stuff on those albums put them in touching distance of eighties 'electro prog' with their prog buddies Rush. I also think there may also be a case for Sting inclusion as a solo artist.
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Sean Trane
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Posted: May 06 2020 at 03:03 |
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And in no time, we'd have demands to add Magazine, Television, Patti Smith, Joy Division OMD, etc....   The day after that we'd have demands for Ah-A, Heaven 17 , Madona, Duran, and Culture Club...  No thanks!!  Nooooowwwwww, for TH, there are three links (Eno, Fripp and Belew, and the 80's Crimson is clearly TH-influenced. Indeed, both Stewart and Andy have prog links and Gordon was a jazz man before forming the Police. Gong's Mike Howlett also had something to do with the first police days as he was involved in Strontium 80. But the line's got to be drawn somewhere, and it doesn't have to be a straight line either. |
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chopper
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Posted: May 06 2020 at 05:09 |
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The Police have no place on a prog rock site, TH have at least a link with a couple of their albums (Fear of Music and Remain in Light).
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HolyMoly
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Posted: May 06 2020 at 06:31 |
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Prog Related just means they have historical or personnel ties to prog without being prog themselves. Talking Heads seem an ideal candidate because of the Belew/Fripp/Eno connection, as Logan pointed out. I guess a similar case could be made for The Police (Summers worked with Fripp, Copeland played in Curved Air), but in general, I don’t think Prog Related is really a focus for the admin team (nor for the mission of the site itself). IIRC, new additions to this category have been done very sparingly, just to provide some necessary context for other forms of music as they relate to prog.
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Tom Ozric
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Posted: May 06 2020 at 06:56 |
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And Andy Summers was in Soft Machine for a very short while after Daevid Allen was refused re-entry back in to the U.K, and also guested on Jon Lord’s Sarabande album. Copeland was in Curved Air and was long-term partner (married ?) to Sonja Kristina. Also along with Sting, they appeared on an album by Eberhard Scheoner. They have many links with Prog, wthout being Prog at all, even though their style of music is quite original and at times complex. Edited by Tom Ozric - May 06 2020 at 07:09 |
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The Anders
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Posted: May 06 2020 at 06:58 |
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But why are Queen in Prog Related then? Their early work (e.g. Queen II, A Night a the Opera) is quite proggy (?)
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Sean Trane
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Posted: May 06 2020 at 07:28 |
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Actually I don't really think Talking Heads should really be here.  
Andy Summers stayed in the US after Kevin Ayers had him fired from Soft Machine (too chicken to do it himself, he asked Wyatt to do it)and he played in the Eric Burdon & New Animals for two albums, before studying music in University. When he did get back in the UK, he was actually hired by the same Kevin Ayers , but I'm not sure there is any recorded testimony of that, but it was circa the Deceiver or Mañana albums, though.
Edited by Sean Trane - May 06 2020 at 10:32 |
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Tom Ozric
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Posted: May 06 2020 at 07:56 |
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^ .......after the smack kicked in.........Kevin, Kevin........lost soul....R.I.P.
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dr wu23
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Posted: May 06 2020 at 10:04 |
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I tend to agree. I don't think either one need to be here though imho some of the other bands in prog related and crossover aren't truly prog either. For instance Bowie....there is another thread on moving him around...but is he really prog rock at all? So,,is PA too inclusive or not inclusive enough...?  Having said that I like The Police, but never really warmed up to The Heads.
Edited by dr wu23 - May 06 2020 at 10:14 |
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
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miamiscot
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Posted: May 08 2020 at 09:24 |
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I love all five albums by The Police!!! They should not be here if XTC isn't.
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The Prog Corner
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Catcher10
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Posted: May 08 2020 at 11:28 |
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The Police are one of the biggest bands in rock music, they were at the top of the world for years. I think they would be in my Top 10 Bands of all time.
Both Andy and Stewart came from progy bands, but I really don't think they created any of The Police music with prog in mind. They don't need to be listed on PA database, in any sub genre.
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AFlowerKingCrimson
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Posted: May 08 2020 at 15:20 |
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Yeah so? We already have Tori Amos. Are you ok with that?And she is under crossover prog no less! Oingo Boingo are on here too(under the same category). There are probably others on here as well but those stick out for me. I say this as someone who likes Tori's music too but then again I like a lot of things that aren't prog. If you stopped after Magazine or Television then fine. After that you just got a bit silly.
 Anyway, for prog related(as others have explained it to me)it's not so much just about lineage but also the sound. The bands I mentioned have very proggish moments. Most of of the ones you mentioned don't. ;)Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - May 08 2020 at 15:26 |
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AFlowerKingCrimson
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Posted: May 08 2020 at 15:28 |
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But it's ok for Tori Amos and Oingo Boingo to be on here?
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zeuhl1
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Posted: May 08 2020 at 19:09 |
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While personally I wouldn't include the Police despite an established prog history that goes deep into the roots of the foundation years of the genre and more recent lps with Fripp, I was a bit gob smacked to see a review of Metallica today? How did a thrash band slip past the goalie?
I did buy the Strontium 90 single when it originally came out and bought each Police Lp upon release. But Metallica? Edited by zeuhl1 - May 08 2020 at 19:16 |
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Steve Wyzard wrote: