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Nogbad_The_Bad 
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 Posted: April 15 2020 at 07:38 |
 I prophesy disaster wrote:
moshkito wrote:
Thank you ... I'm just totally aghast as to how someone can stand here and tell an artist how, when, they should go to the bathroom, or write anything. |
Why should the artist have all the say? Why shouldn't the listener have some of the say? After all, the listener is also devoting resources to the music. |
It's a catch 22, I don't want listeners having a say in what the artists produces, the artist should do what the their muse directs them to. Of course if they find an audience for this art that's terrific. If they want to be commercially successful they are likely going to need to compromise that vision.
Once its in the hands of the listener they have the license to use it as they see fit, if they want to cut out tracks, that's their right. The artist can complain about their art being ruined but listeners should similarly listen to what they like.
I can probably create one good Genesis album by combining 4 of their albums.
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Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com
https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/
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Sean Trane
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Posted: April 15 2020 at 07:43 |
Rick1 wrote:
We forget the technology of record making. You couldn't make a three sided album. If the band committed to a double then that would be that - sparse material would need to be expanded. As Wakeman once observed, 20 minutes provided a form of quality control (that disappeared with the advent of the CD). None of these albums are 'bad' for that reason. BTW, go and listen to Rush or something if you are moaning about Soft Machine's 'Third'. |
he did  !!
Edited by Sean Trane - April 15 2020 at 07:44
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ExittheLemming
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Posted: April 15 2020 at 07:48 |
moshkito wrote:
BaldFriede wrote:
All of you guys are wrong. The mere idea is ludicrous. It is entirely up to the artist what to put on an album. How would you feel if you made a double album and someone suggested you should leave out half of the stuff? You all have the wrong attitude. Learn from this Japanese author:
“In my young days I praised the master whose pictures I liked, but
as my judgment matured I praised myself for liking what the masters had
chosen to have me like.”
―
Kakuzō Okakura, The Book of Tea
Okakura speaks of pictures, but the same attitude extends to all arts.
|
Hi,
Thank you ... I'm just totally aghast as to how someone can stand here and tell an artist how, when, they should go to the bathroom, or write anything.
but in the end, all you and I are seeing id the result of a top ten hit society ... all they know seems to have to be short and sweet ... no meat in it ... and the "meanings" of course, told in the lyrics so no one has to do "homework" like you and I did in college ... which sometimes is all I think these folks are rejecting! (Who knows ... who really knows?)
|
I spend a lot of my hard earned money on music, which makes me a consumer, so I'm perfectly entitled to criticize or praise an artist's output as I see fit (within the bounds of slander and defamation legislation). If I'm paying someone's wages I want a bang for my buck and certainly don't appreciate being lectured to by credulous hippy casualties like you and BaldFriede. Learn to deal with that attitude at your leisure pilgrims.  |
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The Dark Elf
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Posted: April 15 2020 at 08:05 |
ExittheLemming wrote:
moshkito wrote:
BaldFriede wrote:
All of you guys are wrong. The mere idea is ludicrous. It is entirely up to the artist what to put on an album. How would you feel if you made a double album and someone suggested you should leave out half of the stuff? You all have the wrong attitude. Learn from this Japanese author:
“In my young days I praised the master whose pictures I liked, but
as my judgment matured I praised myself for liking what the masters had
chosen to have me like.”
―
Kakuzō Okakura, The Book of Tea
Okakura speaks of pictures, but the same attitude extends to all arts.
|
Hi,
Thank you ... I'm just totally aghast as to how someone can stand here and tell an artist how, when, they should go to the bathroom, or write anything.
but in the end, all you and I are seeing id the result of a top ten hit society ... all they know seems to have to be short and sweet ... no meat in it ... and the "meanings" of course, told in the lyrics so no one has to do "homework" like you and I did in college ... which sometimes is all I think these folks are rejecting! (Who knows ... who really knows?)
|
I spend a lot of my hard earned money on music, which makes me a consumer, so I'm perfectly entitled to criticize or praise an artist's output as I see fit (within the bounds of slander and defamation legislation). If I'm paying someone's wages I want a bang for my buck and certainly don't appreciate being lectured to by credulous hippy casualties like you and BaldFriede. Learn to deal with that attitude at your leisure pilgrims. |
I will have to agree with the Lemming's leap here. This isn't about some poor starving performers "suffering for their art". In most cases, performers releasing double or triple albums have reached a level of success where they can get away with such multi-album sets. Many of these releases are bloated and pretentious and should rightly be poked by critics, whether national reviewers or little ol' posters on PA who have to pay a premium for the added crap.
I recall Rick Wakeman being so upset at the ridiculous preponderance of pretension that surrounded TFTO that he quit Yes altogether. Double the album, double the scrutiny.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
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Posted: April 15 2020 at 08:28 |
The Dark Elf wrote:
ExittheLemming wrote:
moshkito wrote:
BaldFriede wrote:
All of you guys are wrong. The mere idea is ludicrous. It is entirely up to the artist what to put on an album. How would you feel if you made a double album and someone suggested you should leave out half of the stuff? You all have the wrong attitude. Learn from this Japanese author:
“In my young days I praised the master whose pictures I liked, but
as my judgment matured I praised myself for liking what the masters had
chosen to have me like.”
―
Kakuzō Okakura, The Book of Tea
Okakura speaks of pictures, but the same attitude extends to all arts.
|
Hi,
Thank you ... I'm just totally aghast as to how someone can stand here and tell an artist how, when, they should go to the bathroom, or write anything.
but in the end, all you and I are seeing id the result of a top ten hit society ... all they know seems to have to be short and sweet ... no meat in it ... and the "meanings" of course, told in the lyrics so no one has to do "homework" like you and I did in college ... which sometimes is all I think these folks are rejecting! (Who knows ... who really knows?)
|
I spend a lot of my hard earned money on music, which makes me a consumer, so I'm perfectly entitled to criticize or praise an artist's output as I see fit (within the bounds of slander and defamation legislation). If I'm paying someone's wages I want a bang for my buck and certainly don't appreciate being lectured to by credulous hippy casualties like you and BaldFriede. Learn to deal with that attitude at your leisure pilgrims. |
I will have to agree with the Lemming's leap here. This isn't about some poor starving performers "suffering for their art". In most cases, performers releasing double or triple albums have reached a level of success where they can get away with such multi-album sets. Many of these releases are bloated and pretentious and should rightly be poked by critics, whether national reviewers or little ol' posters on PA who have to pay a premium for the added crap.
I recall Rick Wakeman being so upset at the ridiculous preponderance of pretension that surrounded TFTO that he quit Yes altogether. Double the album, double the scrutiny. |
I speak as an artist who has been affected by this. You may remember that we recorded a quadruple album last year. The record company does however not want that and wants us to split it up into four single albums, which we absolutely reject. The music only makes sense as a whole, and if someone would buy only one or two of the albums the intended effect would be totally ruined. We may finally have to publish it ourselves, but we don't want another album with only 500 copies (as our first two), we want it to be an unlimited edition, and this requires money we don't have. And I totally refuse to be lectured by incredulous business capitalist casualties like you.
Edited by BaldFriede - April 15 2020 at 08:32
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 BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Grumpyprogfan
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Posted: April 15 2020 at 08:34 |
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^What is the name of your band? Why not release the quad for free streaming?
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BaldFriede
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Posted: April 15 2020 at 09:06 |
Grumpyprogfan wrote:
^What is the name of your band? Why not release the quad for free streaming? |
Our band is usually called Bald Angels, but for this project we changed the name of the band to Mother Gaia. It is a family project: My wife (same-sex marriage) Jeanine, her sister Beatrice, our kids Alice and Dorothy and me. You can read all about this very ambitious project of us in this thread:
Edited by BaldFriede - April 15 2020 at 09:14
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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ExittheLemming
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Location: Penal Colony
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Posted: April 15 2020 at 09:14 |
The Dark Elf wrote:
ExittheLemming wrote:
moshkito wrote:
BaldFriede wrote:
All of you guys are wrong. The mere idea is ludicrous. It is entirely up to the artist what to put on an album. How would you feel if you made a double album and someone suggested you should leave out half of the stuff? You all have the wrong attitude. Learn from this Japanese author:
“In my young days I praised the master whose pictures I liked, but
as my judgment matured I praised myself for liking what the masters had
chosen to have me like.”
―
Kakuzō Okakura, The Book of Tea
Okakura speaks of pictures, but the same attitude extends to all arts.
|
Hi,
Thank you ... I'm just totally aghast as to how someone can stand here and tell an artist how, when, they should go to the bathroom, or write anything.
but in the end, all you and I are seeing id the result of a top ten hit society ... all they know seems to have to be short and sweet ... no meat in it ... and the "meanings" of course, told in the lyrics so no one has to do "homework" like you and I did in college ... which sometimes is all I think these folks are rejecting! (Who knows ... who really knows?)
|
I spend a lot of my hard earned money on music, which makes me a consumer, so I'm perfectly entitled to criticize or praise an artist's output as I see fit (within the bounds of slander and defamation legislation). If I'm paying someone's wages I want a bang for my buck and certainly don't appreciate being lectured to by credulous hippy casualties like you and BaldFriede. Learn to deal with that attitude at your leisure pilgrims. |
I will have to agree with the Lemming's leap here. This isn't about some poor starving performers "suffering for their art". In most cases, performers releasing double or triple albums have reached a level of success where they can get away with such multi-album sets. Many of these releases are bloated and pretentious and should rightly be poked by critics, whether national reviewers or little ol' posters on PA who have to pay a premium for the added crap.
I recall Rick Wakeman being so upset at the ridiculous preponderance of pretension that surrounded TFTO that he quit Yes altogether. Double the album, double the scrutiny. |
With them being restaurateurs, it makes the 'starving artist' posturing particularly ironic  |
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The Anders
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Posted: April 15 2020 at 09:14 |
I doubt anyone would want to tell the artists what to do or not. It should be up to the artists how to release their music in the end of course, but that doesn't mean that I as a listener can't have my own view about whether it was a good idea to release a double album or not. Remember, it is just a view. The artists may have a different opinion, and there's nothing wrong with that.
It's like writing a negative review also means that the artists should go change their album accordingly. I doubt many artists would want to do that.
Edited by The Anders - April 15 2020 at 09:15
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I prophesy disaster
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Posted: April 15 2020 at 09:31 |
Lewian wrote:
About half of Godley & Creme's Consequences has a strange comedy piece that, well, doesn't really cut the mustard for me, but there's surely one album of great music on it, maybe one album plus a bit (the whole thing originally was 3 LPs). |
I was going to mention this album. Side 1 and Side 6 together would make an awesome album even though the concept of the album would be ruined. But it was actually the comedy section that attracted me to the album in the first place. However, unlike music, comedy can only be listened to a few times before it gets stale, so it is only the first and last side that maintains interest for me.
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No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man.
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The Dark Elf
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Posted: April 15 2020 at 12:05 |
BaldFriede wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:
ExittheLemming wrote:
moshkito wrote:
BaldFriede wrote:
All of you guys are wrong. The mere idea is ludicrous. It is entirely up to the artist what to put on an album. How would you feel if you made a double album and someone suggested you should leave out half of the stuff? You all have the wrong attitude. Learn from this Japanese author:
“In my young days I praised the master whose pictures I liked, but
as my judgment matured I praised myself for liking what the masters had
chosen to have me like.”
―
Kakuzō Okakura, The Book of Tea
Okakura speaks of pictures, but the same attitude extends to all arts.
|
Hi,
Thank you ... I'm just totally aghast as to how someone can stand here and tell an artist how, when, they should go to the bathroom, or write anything.
but in the end, all you and I are seeing id the result of a top ten hit society ... all they know seems to have to be short and sweet ... no meat in it ... and the "meanings" of course, told in the lyrics so no one has to do "homework" like you and I did in college ... which sometimes is all I think these folks are rejecting! (Who knows ... who really knows?)
|
I spend a lot of my hard earned money on music, which makes me a consumer, so I'm perfectly entitled to criticize or praise an artist's output as I see fit (within the bounds of slander and defamation legislation). If I'm paying someone's wages I want a bang for my buck and certainly don't appreciate being lectured to by credulous hippy casualties like you and BaldFriede. Learn to deal with that attitude at your leisure pilgrims. |
I will have to agree with the Lemming's leap here. This isn't about some poor starving performers "suffering for their art". In most cases, performers releasing double or triple albums have reached a level of success where they can get away with such multi-album sets. Many of these releases are bloated and pretentious and should rightly be poked by critics, whether national reviewers or little ol' posters on PA who have to pay a premium for the added crap.
I recall Rick Wakeman being so upset at the ridiculous preponderance of pretension that surrounded TFTO that he quit Yes altogether. Double the album, double the scrutiny. |
I speak as an artist who has been affected by this. You may remember that we recorded a quadruple album last year. The record company does however not want that and wants us to split it up into four single albums, which we absolutely reject. The music only makes sense as a whole, and if someone would buy only one or two of the albums the intended effect would be totally ruined. We may finally have to publish it ourselves, but we don't want another album with only 500 copies (as our first two), we want it to be an unlimited edition, and this requires money we don't have. And I totally refuse to be lectured by incredulous business capitalist casualties like you.
|
"Incredulous business capitalist casualties like you."
The obvious reply here would be that although I am sure your current music is utterly exquisite and beyond the realm of the listening capabilities of a "business capitalist casualty" such as myself, a 4 record set, by its very nature, would be considered overblown and pretentious by most reviewers and we commoners. How dare a record company consider the marketability of a 4 record set! Perhaps, just perhaps, the fact that not even high-volume superstars who have multiple gold and platinum albums very rarely are allowed the luxury of a quadruple album, would give one pause in their list of demands.
|
|
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
|
|
Sacro_Porgo
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Joined: July 15 2019
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Posted: April 15 2020 at 13:48 |
BaldFriede wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:
ExittheLemming wrote:
moshkito wrote:
BaldFriede wrote:
All of you guys are wrong. The mere idea is ludicrous. It is entirely up to the artist what to put on an album. How would you feel if you made a double album and someone suggested you should leave out half of the stuff? You all have the wrong attitude. Learn from this Japanese author:
“In my young days I praised the master whose pictures I liked, but
as my judgment matured I praised myself for liking what the masters had
chosen to have me like.”
―
Kakuzō Okakura, The Book of Tea
Okakura speaks of pictures, but the same attitude extends to all arts.
|
Hi,
Thank you ... I'm just totally aghast as to how someone can stand here and tell an artist how, when, they should go to the bathroom, or write anything.
but in the end, all you and I are seeing id the result of a top ten hit society ... all they know seems to have to be short and sweet ... no meat in it ... and the "meanings" of course, told in the lyrics so no one has to do "homework" like you and I did in college ... which sometimes is all I think these folks are rejecting! (Who knows ... who really knows?)
|
I spend a lot of my hard earned money on music, which makes me a consumer, so I'm perfectly entitled to criticize or praise an artist's output as I see fit (within the bounds of slander and defamation legislation). If I'm paying someone's wages I want a bang for my buck and certainly don't appreciate being lectured to by credulous hippy casualties like you and BaldFriede. Learn to deal with that attitude at your leisure pilgrims. |
I will have to agree with the Lemming's leap here. This isn't about some poor starving performers "suffering for their art". In most cases, performers releasing double or triple albums have reached a level of success where they can get away with such multi-album sets. Many of these releases are bloated and pretentious and should rightly be poked by critics, whether national reviewers or little ol' posters on PA who have to pay a premium for the added crap.
I recall Rick Wakeman being so upset at the ridiculous preponderance of pretension that surrounded TFTO that he quit Yes altogether. Double the album, double the scrutiny. |
I speak as an artist who has been affected by this. You may remember that we recorded a quadruple album last year. The record company does however not want that and wants us to split it up into four single albums, which we absolutely reject. The music only makes sense as a whole, and if someone would buy only one or two of the albums the intended effect would be totally ruined. We may finally have to publish it ourselves, but we don't want another album with only 500 copies (as our first two), we want it to be an unlimited edition, and this requires money we don't have. And I totally refuse to be lectured by incredulous business capitalist casualties like you.
|
I don't think anyone here is arguing that artist's visions should be compromised by money-minded labels. I think people are only saying that, hypothetically, if certain double albums had been released as single albums, those people would have enjoyed them more. The good news for everyone is that in the age of mp3s and streaming, the artist can release any length of album they feel necessary to fully realize their vision, and the consumer can decide not to listen to any songs they don't like. I think as an artist you just have to have faith that many of your fans will stick with you through the entire project and not decide to skip half the album. Personally I don't like skipping songs or editing albums, not so much out of respect for the artist as I simply feel I'm cheating myself if I just edit out my least favorite bits. The listening experience doesn't really feel complete if I do that. So I'll either listen through tracks I don't as much and hopefully grow to like them better, or I simply won't listen to that album very often (e.g. Rush's Roll The Bones).
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Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :)
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Sacro_Porgo
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Joined: July 15 2019
Location: Cygnus
Status: Offline
Points: 2052
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Posted: April 15 2020 at 13:53 |
The Dark Elf wrote:
BaldFriede wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:
ExittheLemming wrote:
moshkito wrote:
BaldFriede wrote:
All of you guys are wrong. The mere idea is ludicrous. It is entirely up to the artist what to put on an album. How would you feel if you made a double album and someone suggested you should leave out half of the stuff? You all have the wrong attitude. Learn from this Japanese author:
“In my young days I praised the master whose pictures I liked, but
as my judgment matured I praised myself for liking what the masters had
chosen to have me like.”
―
Kakuzō Okakura, The Book of Tea
Okakura speaks of pictures, but the same attitude extends to all arts.
|
Hi,
Thank you ... I'm just totally aghast as to how someone can stand here and tell an artist how, when, they should go to the bathroom, or write anything.
but in the end, all you and I are seeing id the result of a top ten hit society ... all they know seems to have to be short and sweet ... no meat in it ... and the "meanings" of course, told in the lyrics so no one has to do "homework" like you and I did in college ... which sometimes is all I think these folks are rejecting! (Who knows ... who really knows?)
|
I spend a lot of my hard earned money on music, which makes me a consumer, so I'm perfectly entitled to criticize or praise an artist's output as I see fit (within the bounds of slander and defamation legislation). If I'm paying someone's wages I want a bang for my buck and certainly don't appreciate being lectured to by credulous hippy casualties like you and BaldFriede. Learn to deal with that attitude at your leisure pilgrims. |
I will have to agree with the Lemming's leap here. This isn't about some poor starving performers "suffering for their art". In most cases, performers releasing double or triple albums have reached a level of success where they can get away with such multi-album sets. Many of these releases are bloated and pretentious and should rightly be poked by critics, whether national reviewers or little ol' posters on PA who have to pay a premium for the added crap.
I recall Rick Wakeman being so upset at the ridiculous preponderance of pretension that surrounded TFTO that he quit Yes altogether. Double the album, double the scrutiny. |
I speak as an artist who has been affected by this. You may remember that we recorded a quadruple album last year. The record company does however not want that and wants us to split it up into four single albums, which we absolutely reject. The music only makes sense as a whole, and if someone would buy only one or two of the albums the intended effect would be totally ruined. We may finally have to publish it ourselves, but we don't want another album with only 500 copies (as our first two), we want it to be an unlimited edition, and this requires money we don't have. And I totally refuse to be lectured by incredulous business capitalist casualties like you.
|
"Incredulous business capitalist casualties like you."
The obvious reply here would be that although I am sure your current music is utterly exquisite and beyond the realm of the listening capabilities of a "business capitalist casualty" such as myself, a 4 record set, by its very nature, would be considered overblown and pretentious by most reviewers and we commoners. How dare a record company consider the marketability of a 4 record set! Perhaps, just perhaps, the fact that not even high-volume superstars who have multiple gold and platinum albums very rarely are allowed the luxury of a quadruple album, would give one pause in their list of demands.
|
Things never change if no one tries to change them. Didn't box sets of classical pieces and operas used to sell well? I certainly see enough used ones at Goodwill to assume they were once commercially viable.
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Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :)
|
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BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10261
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Posted: April 15 2020 at 14:01 |
The Dark Elf wrote:
BaldFriede wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:
ExittheLemming wrote:
moshkito wrote:
BaldFriede wrote:
All of you guys are wrong. The mere idea is ludicrous. It is entirely up to the artist what to put on an album. How would you feel if you made a double album and someone suggested you should leave out half of the stuff? You all have the wrong attitude. Learn from this Japanese author:
“In my young days I praised the master whose pictures I liked, but
as my judgment matured I praised myself for liking what the masters had
chosen to have me like.”
―
Kakuzō Okakura, The Book of Tea
Okakura speaks of pictures, but the same attitude extends to all arts.
|
Hi,
Thank you ... I'm just totally aghast as to how someone can stand here and tell an artist how, when, they should go to the bathroom, or write anything.
but in the end, all you and I are seeing id the result of a top ten hit society ... all they know seems to have to be short and sweet ... no meat in it ... and the "meanings" of course, told in the lyrics so no one has to do "homework" like you and I did in college ... which sometimes is all I think these folks are rejecting! (Who knows ... who really knows?)
|
I spend a lot of my hard earned money on music, which makes me a consumer, so I'm perfectly entitled to criticize or praise an artist's output as I see fit (within the bounds of slander and defamation legislation). If I'm paying someone's wages I want a bang for my buck and certainly don't appreciate being lectured to by credulous hippy casualties like you and BaldFriede. Learn to deal with that attitude at your leisure pilgrims. |
I will have to agree with the Lemming's leap here. This isn't about some poor starving performers "suffering for their art". In most cases, performers releasing double or triple albums have reached a level of success where they can get away with such multi-album sets. Many of these releases are bloated and pretentious and should rightly be poked by critics, whether national reviewers or little ol' posters on PA who have to pay a premium for the added crap.
I recall Rick Wakeman being so upset at the ridiculous preponderance of pretension that surrounded TFTO that he quit Yes altogether. Double the album, double the scrutiny. |
I speak as an artist who has been affected by this. You may remember that we recorded a quadruple album last year. The record company does however not want that and wants us to split it up into four single albums, which we absolutely reject. The music only makes sense as a whole, and if someone would buy only one or two of the albums the intended effect would be totally ruined. We may finally have to publish it ourselves, but we don't want another album with only 500 copies (as our first two), we want it to be an unlimited edition, and this requires money we don't have. And I totally refuse to be lectured by incredulous business capitalist casualties like you.
|
"Incredulous business capitalist casualties like you."
The obvious reply here would be that although I am sure your current music is utterly exquisite and beyond the realm of the listening capabilities of a "business capitalist casualty" such as myself, a 4 record set, by its very nature, would be considered overblown and pretentious by most reviewers and we commoners. How dare a record company consider the marketability of a 4 record set! Perhaps, just perhaps, the fact that not even high-volume superstars who have multiple gold and platinum albums very rarely are allowed the luxury of a quadruple album, would give one pause in their list of demands.
|
Just to make it clear: "Incredulous business capitalist casualties like you" was directed at Exitthelemming because he called me and Jean (though he said I and BaldFriede, but we are used to being confused with each other) "credulous hippy casualties".
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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ExittheLemming
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Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
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Posted: April 15 2020 at 15:06 |
BaldFriede wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:
BaldFriede wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:
ExittheLemming wrote:
moshkito wrote:
BaldFriede wrote:
All of you guys are wrong. The mere idea is ludicrous. It is entirely up to the artist what to put on an album. How would you feel if you made a double album and someone suggested you should leave out half of the stuff? You all have the wrong attitude. Learn from this Japanese author:
“In my young days I praised the master whose pictures I liked, but
as my judgment matured I praised myself for liking what the masters had
chosen to have me like.”
―
Kakuzō Okakura, The Book of Tea
Okakura speaks of pictures, but the same attitude extends to all arts.
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Hi,
Thank you ... I'm just totally aghast as to how someone can stand here and tell an artist how, when, they should go to the bathroom, or write anything.
but in the end, all you and I are seeing id the result of a top ten hit society ... all they know seems to have to be short and sweet ... no meat in it ... and the "meanings" of course, told in the lyrics so no one has to do "homework" like you and I did in college ... which sometimes is all I think these folks are rejecting! (Who knows ... who really knows?)
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I spend a lot of my hard earned money on music, which makes me a consumer, so I'm perfectly entitled to criticize or praise an artist's output as I see fit (within the bounds of slander and defamation legislation). If I'm paying someone's wages I want a bang for my buck and certainly don't appreciate being lectured to by credulous hippy casualties like you and BaldFriede. Learn to deal with that attitude at your leisure pilgrims. |
I will have to agree with the Lemming's leap here. This isn't about some poor starving performers "suffering for their art". In most cases, performers releasing double or triple albums have reached a level of success where they can get away with such multi-album sets. Many of these releases are bloated and pretentious and should rightly be poked by critics, whether national reviewers or little ol' posters on PA who have to pay a premium for the added crap.
I recall Rick Wakeman being so upset at the ridiculous preponderance of pretension that surrounded TFTO that he quit Yes altogether. Double the album, double the scrutiny. |
I speak as an artist who has been affected by this. You may remember that we recorded a quadruple album last year. The record company does however not want that and wants us to split it up into four single albums, which we absolutely reject. The music only makes sense as a whole, and if someone would buy only one or two of the albums the intended effect would be totally ruined. We may finally have to publish it ourselves, but we don't want another album with only 500 copies (as our first two), we want it to be an unlimited edition, and this requires money we don't have. And I totally refuse to be lectured by incredulous business capitalist casualties like you.
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"Incredulous business capitalist casualties like you."
The obvious reply here would be that although I am sure your current music is utterly exquisite and beyond the realm of the listening capabilities of a "business capitalist casualty" such as myself, a 4 record set, by its very nature, would be considered overblown and pretentious by most reviewers and we commoners. How dare a record company consider the marketability of a 4 record set! Perhaps, just perhaps, the fact that not even high-volume superstars who have multiple gold and platinum albums very rarely are allowed the luxury of a quadruple album, would give one pause in their list of demands.
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Just to make it clear: "Incredulous business capitalist casualties like you" was directed at Exitthelemming because he called me and Jean (though he said I and BaldFriede, but we are used to being confused with each other) "credulous hippy casualties". |
Apologies for getting you both confused. I previously referred to you as restaurateurs as I didn't realise the enterprise must be a 'not for profit' soup kitchen. It appears that in your befuddled world you conflate consumers who purchase art and provide artists with a living, with capitalists. That's pitiful.
Edited by ExittheLemming - April 15 2020 at 15:07
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BaldFriede
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Posted: April 15 2020 at 15:41 |
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You started being pitiful by calling us "hippy casualties". I just paid you back in even manner. Don't give us names we don't deserve, and I won't give you names you probably don't deserve. It's that simple.
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Grumpyprogfan
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Posted: April 15 2020 at 16:22 |
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Can you provide a link to your music, BaldFriede?
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hellogoodbye
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Posted: April 16 2020 at 02:10 |
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I love Sandinista exactly as it is.
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Lewian
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Posted: April 16 2020 at 02:55 |
BaldFriede wrote:
I speak as an artist who has been affected by this. You may remember that we recorded a quadruple album last year. The record company does however not want that and wants us to split it up into four single albums, which we absolutely reject. The music only makes sense as a whole, and if someone would buy only one or two of the albums the intended effect would be totally ruined. We may finally have to publish it ourselves, but we don't want another album with only 500 copies (as our first two), we want it to be an unlimited edition, and this requires money we don't have. And I totally refuse to be lectured by incredulous business capitalist casualties like you.
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But that's totally different, isn't it? The record company is a business that runs by the rules of business. They have to make a living, too. They don't make an artistic assessment, they ask themselves, will we more likely earn or lose money if we sell this as quadruple album. Their assessment that they have an all too good chance of losing money with the quadruple and their chances of earning money are better if they release them one by one may well be correct, even if they admitted that from an artistic point of view you are right. But that's not the game they play. And the game we play here is different still, at least as far as I'm concerned. Even if you got your quadruple released and some people loved it to pieces as it is, what's wrong with somebody else writing "I could well do without half of it" if they just think so? If you as an artist put out your work in public, you've got to live with people saying what they think, even if it doesn't flatter you.
Edited by Lewian - April 16 2020 at 02:56
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David64T
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Posted: April 16 2020 at 05:38 |
GoliathTMV wrote:
It doesn't have to be progressive, just any double or triple album. Mine is The Clash's Sandinista. It's pretty good but it's at least one whole LP too long and could easily be made a single or a double. Here's my single version:
- The Magnificent Seven
- Charlie Don't Surf
- Police On My Back
- Somebody Got Murdered
- The Call Up
- One More Time
- Lose This Skin
- Hitsville UK
- Up In Heaven (Not Only Here)
- Something About England
- Washington Bullets
- The Sound Of Sinners
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Much as I love this album from 1980, especially as Francis Monkman's swansong with the group:
...even at the time Sky 2 seemed to have some padding (solo guitar, solo harpsichord, Tristan's percussion piece, Herbie at the piano) and at least in Australia was originally issued as a 2LP set at a 1LP price ($9.99).
Perhaps:
1. Fifo: (17:05)
a) Fifo - 6:44
b) Adagio - 2:29
c) Scherzo - 4:19
d) Watching the Aeroplanes - 3:33
2. Sahara (6:56)
3. Toccata (4:42)
4. Hotta (7:46)
5. Scipio (12:09)
6. Vivaldi (4:03)
Edited by David64T - April 16 2020 at 05:39
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