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moshkito 
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Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 18399 |
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 Posted: March 08 2020 at 12:19 |
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Hi,
Fun one ... Mike Howlett in Eugene, during a tune up and sound check: "Is it too bass'y?" (precious ... totally precious!)
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: June 02 2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 10266 |
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Posted: March 08 2020 at 12:46 |
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Here is another Einstein quote I love: "„Wenn einer mit Vergnügen in Reih und Glied zu einer Musik marschieren kann, dann verachte ich ihn schon; er hat sein großes Gehirn nur aus Irrtum bekommen, da für ihn das Rückenmark schon völlig genügen würde. Diesen Schandfleck der Zivilisation sollte man so schnell wie möglich zum Verschwinden bringen. Heldentum auf Kommando, sinnlose Gewalttat und die leidige Vaterländerei – wie glühend hasse ich sie, wie gemein und verächtlich erscheint mir der Krieg; ich möchte mich lieber in Stücke schlagen lassen, als mich an einem so elenden Tun beteiligen! Töten im Krieg ist nach meiner Auffassung um nichts besser als gewöhnlicher Mord.“ "He who joyfully marches to music rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice. This disgrace to civilization should be done away with at once. Heroism at command, senseless brutality, deplorable love-of-country stance and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism, how violently I hate all this, how despicable and ignoble war is; I would rather be torn to shreds than be part of so base an action! It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder.”
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 BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
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Shadowyzard
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Joined: February 24 2020 Location: Davutlar Status: Offline Points: 4506 |
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Posted: March 08 2020 at 13:09 |
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Shadowyzard
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Joined: February 24 2020 Location: Davutlar Status: Offline Points: 4506 |
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Posted: March 08 2020 at 14:48 |
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 We can also challenge some "Aim for perfection, gain progression." —Shadowyzard— Edited by Shadowyzard - March 08 2020 at 15:03 |
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moshkito
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Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 18399 |
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Posted: March 09 2020 at 09:09 |
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Hi, There is/are different ways to arrive at poetry. Mine is all "visions" and has very little to do with "thought", unless you are trying to explain to yourself what all the words mean and how they proceed and continue to tell you something! Not all "art" is that MENTAL, and some of it is very instinctive ... and you can best see it in someone like Miles Davis (see the special The Birth of Cool) ... and this is something that is mostly PRESENT in the 20th century, although conventional music, conventional writing, and conventional painting will NEVER allow or EVER admit that anything can be done that fast and that clearly! The art of IMPROVISATION is not dependent on thought. It is dependent on YOUR ABILITY to see inside yourself FAST and react to what is in front of you "on stage" ... and this is a side thing that scares most musicians because they are so tied to the script that they can not see outside of it! It's easier in ACTING on a stage or film, and many actors take advantage of that and it shows ... but if you think that all of them have to see it in their heads first ... you will find that many don't even know about what they do until they see it ... ex: Jonathan Pryce in the special on Don Quixote ... "after this make up is on, and I start I don't know what I am doing ... " ... and he doesn't have to, because it is all about the stage being set and the words simply following and working the MOMENT! There are very few musicians that are not afraid of that moment! The best will use it and make it work and better.
Edited by moshkito - March 09 2020 at 09:10 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Shadowyzard
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Joined: February 24 2020 Location: Davutlar Status: Offline Points: 4506 |
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Posted: March 09 2020 at 10:17 |
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Even an AI could write poems. I'm not an expert that can explain mental and emotional processes on how to write poems. Yet I can -nonexhaustively- say that your "visions" are also mental processes and are in a way related to thoughts. I also don't believe that instincts have anything to do with poetry, except that they affect our psyche, which is an indirect effect. I'm not defending the quotes I've put here, just sharing those I find plausible and impressive. |
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dr wu23
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Joined: August 22 2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 20696 |
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Posted: March 09 2020 at 14:26 |
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'Badges....? ... we don't need no stinking badges...'
some well known Bogart film ;)
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin |
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moshkito
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Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 18399 |
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Posted: March 10 2020 at 09:44 |
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Hi, There is no time for a "mental" or "emotional process" ...and this is what you do not see ... in my case, the "inner movie" takes place so fast that if you don't keep up with it, you easily lose half of it ... I have taught myself (through meditation) a strong "recall" type of thing that allows me to LATER see if I missed anything, but generally, even the "recall" is not the same as the original moment! This is about a moment in time, and that moment will not repeat itself ... and you are stating that you have to have a mental, or emotional something or other for it to happen, and that is SIMPLY NOT TRUE and every book on visions and details about inner experiences will tell you that ... and assigning it to something that is related to a thinking/mental process, basically means, that you will ALWAYS DENY the existence of life in your inner sphere going as far back as the "soul" (for lack of a better word) and anything else. This stubborn and stuck thinking that everything has to be Freud and Jung has got to stop ... that's getting old, and preventing you from learning far more ... you must think that all of the "traditions" of the "higher self" are all about a "mental/emotional" process and they aren't ... when IN FACT, what stops these from developing is exactly that ... you attempting to attach a mental or emotional process to it ... and you want to know what is worse? Sometimes, it's not even close and it's stupid!
Sadly, all this says is that you completely distrust the improvisational side of things in its most vibrant and important appearances. What affects me is if I take stock or not in them AFTER THE FACT, something that will INTIMIDATE your ability to learn more about it ... you have to teach yourself to be an "observer" in these things, if you are going to watch them develop .... you can't if you try to attach some kind of meaning or instinct to it, which might have nothing to do with it at all. One last thing ... that is not on your equation of mental and emotional process ... some of these things might not even be from this time or place ... and trying to explain those is even worse. There is no meaning or emotional "direct link", and yet, there it is ... but you have to go way further and deeper in DREAMS and EMOTIONS to get anywhere near all this ... I wonder why we have taken this thought for thousands of years, that we are the masters of our mind/body/soul when we are just another particle in a bigger universe and their very own "life" for lack of a better word. It's like we're bigger than the rest of the universe ... including our thoughts! I'm going back to The Goons and Monty Python ... more fun!  PS: fun bit ... a "wyzard" or "wizard" would never be a shadow ... he/she would be the real thing!
Edited by moshkito - March 10 2020 at 09:49 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Shadowyzard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 24 2020 Location: Davutlar Status: Offline Points: 4506 |
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Posted: March 10 2020 at 10:27 |
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Shadowy can mean full of shadows and mysterious. It is like a combination of "Shadowy Wizard".
 Your inner movie is created by a mental process, I think. It is not a controlled "vision", yet it is also through our inner power and abilities. Thanks for your insights.
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moshkito
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Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 18399 |
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Posted: March 10 2020 at 10:44 |
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Hi, Incorrect. The visions themselves have nothing to do with a mental process. The first "line" of dreaming in your sleep is a sort of re-hashing of the daily events, but as soon as you get further into it, it is totally foreign, and I would almost suggest that these are the things that might ignite a "vision" or anything that resemble a "mental process". You're leaving out a very important detail ... some visions will last 1.3 seconds ... how is your mental process or anything else gong to affect it? Your response is that it is a sort of conditioned response, except that the "vision" itself has nothing to link it with anything else whatsoever ... and so you know ... these get better and more fun when it starts involving other times and plains/spheres of existence, something that for most of us (even myself) is mostly "unknowable". Death being an example! I do not proclaim any "inner power and abilities" ... I can only write what I see and what they mean to me, and I have learned to find some way of relating to them, however, its expression and way of "existing" is better suited to writing and poetry for me. And even doing this is not fair and sometimes hurts me for it ... why? I'm good at helping people with their inner side of things, but I am more interested in trying to help you determine/find this for yourself ... has nothing to do with me! You will NEVER learn or pick up a mental process or inner ability and power from me ... these come from you only, and how you can learn to define them and develop them ... if you do not develop them, they will disappear and get wasted!
Edited by moshkito - March 10 2020 at 10:45 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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BaldJean
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 28 2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 10387 |
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Posted: March 10 2020 at 10:47 |
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2 Chinese proverbs: 1) before you start changing the world walk through your house thrice 2) if you sit long enough by a river the bodies of your enemies will drift by both enhance the Chinese principle of wu-wei (acting by not-acting)
Edited by BaldJean - March 10 2020 at 10:49 |
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 A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
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Shadowyzard
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Joined: February 24 2020 Location: Davutlar Status: Offline Points: 4506 |
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Posted: March 10 2020 at 11:02 |
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What mental means is: related to the mind. What Wikipedia says about mind is: The mind is the set of cognitive faculties including consciousness, imagination, perception, thinking, judgement, language and memory, which is housed in the brain (sometimes including the central nervous system). It is usually defined as the faculty of an entity's thoughts and consciousness.[3] It holds the power of imagination, recognition, and appreciation, and is responsible for processing feelings and emotions, resulting in attitudes and actions.[4] |
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timothy leary
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Joined: December 29 2005 Location: Lilliwaup, Wa. Status: Offline Points: 5319 |
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Posted: March 10 2020 at 14:11 |
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Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards........Soren Kierkgaard
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 18399 |
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Posted: March 10 2020 at 18:16 |
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Hi, So Wiki is your professor now ... quoting it as if I didn't know what I am saying and Wiki is better than me ... fine ... I am not into this to get followers ... so quoting me a 2nd rate idea of what the inner states and "mental" means is a dead end! What it missing in these definitions and ideas is that these folks do not relate this to the amount of time that they happen ... a vision might be ONE SECOND long, and in that time you can not even start to add anything that you mentioned from Wiki! You'll know what I mean one day ... Wiki knows nothing about inner landscapes and some of the folks that write in it, can only put together some sort of a Freudian shrimp or Jungian tuna! It's too simplified to help you ... and at best it will confuse you ... but anyone writing this and telling you something is not going anywhere ... I'm fine with that ... I'm not into it to save the world or to tell everyone that they missed their bus ... but it is sad when you see the light and truth right in front of you but your only training is ... shown in a quote from Wiki ... not even your own words! The river's water moves along ... to anywhere it can!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 18399 |
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Posted: March 11 2020 at 06:45 |
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Hi, There is no such thing as a "controlled vision" as is told in stories in various occult novels and ideas and thoughts. Some folks, however, are better at "tuning in" and "staying there" than others, and they can facilitate others working through it, however to say that he/she has control in it, is a bit strange, since you have no idea what might or might not take place next or in the next several seconds ... you can only be "prepared" for what you know, and learn from "what you don't know" ... and this is the only thing that comes out in a lot of materials that are considered "occult" in the past 100 years, with terminology that you and I, TODAY, would consider incomplete and lacking in clarity. The inner movie you are thinking about is the one that you start a story and then you think you can bring that story into your dreaming ... and 1) that is not likely to happen; 2) the chances of it continuing are small, although I have taken bits and pieces from "visions" and written a couple of plays from it -- they are merely a "re-telling" of what I saw, and the only thing that is "relative" to the start is the first 3 seconds ... the rest .... like every writer ... has a life of its own, and I like to let that life live ... it is exciting, new, and beautiful! Folks think that you see "inner movies" simply because you experienced this and that ... and your ability is to manifest them in this manner ... with one issue ... most of them will get wasted and never even looked at, and ignored, which is worse ... the hardest thing to teach yourself is to NOT IGNORE any inner events or dismiss them to whatever antiquated ideas you prefer to choose! And please ... stop using ideas about wizards and warlocks and magicians, that is still using some lingo that is hundreds of years old and does not come close to determining the real thing ... your idea is soooooooooo movie related, it is sad ... you actually believe them!
 Edited by moshkito - March 11 2020 at 06:45 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Shadowyzard
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Joined: February 24 2020 Location: Davutlar Status: Offline Points: 4506 |
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Posted: March 11 2020 at 06:53 |
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Ah, you're climbing mountains but imaginary ones. Good luck with that.
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moshkito
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Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 18399 |
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Posted: March 11 2020 at 07:10 |
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Hi, Don't have to ... these kinds of thoughts and ideas are comments wasted on folks that don't know the difference, and to make sure that you think they know something more than you do. I don't have to climb "mountains" just to prove what I know and see inside. But if you want to climb a mountain only to find that anything up there is the same as anything down here -- except thinner air of course! -- go ahead ... enjoy yourself wasting time on parables that were ADDED to the new testament 1800 years ago, to make sure the word in those books was right and you didn't know anything or what it all meant. C'mon ... stop throwing ideas around ... if you don't know or understand ... just ask ... the answer will tell you its own value, but if the best that person can di is give you a parable, that person is as spiritual as what ... not saying it ... you can believe all the fakes out there, and never know the difference! For your information, you have no positive proof that anything I have experienced "inside" is not real, and does not belong in the world ... except your Freudian shrimps and Jungian tunas!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Shadowyzard
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Joined: February 24 2020 Location: Davutlar Status: Offline Points: 4506 |
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Posted: March 11 2020 at 07:20 |
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Even after a conversation commences, your "beginning" all your posts with a "Hi" clearly shows that all your concern is self-justification. This shouldn't be that way, FYI.
I choose not to continue. Your pretentiousness and discourtesy is exceeding my tolerance limit. If I were in my 20s now, I'd argue to the max, but I figured long ago that ignoring is better. Edited by Shadowyzard - March 11 2020 at 07:40 |
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group 
Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 38239 |
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Posted: March 11 2020 at 11:41 |
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"The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt" (Bertrand Russell).
"A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand" (Bertrand Russell). "The music consists in 2-3 humming refrigerators at the same time, plus a portative fan that turns back and forth to make the anyway inexistent rhythm, and finally a coming cluster of threatening killer bees!" (Greenback on Tangerine Dream's Zeit). |
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"Questions are a burden to others; answers a prison for oneself" (The Prisoner, 1967).
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timothy leary
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Joined: December 29 2005 Location: Lilliwaup, Wa. Status: Offline Points: 5319 |
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Posted: March 11 2020 at 13:42 |
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Shadowyzard wrote: