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What’s your biggest gripe with the top 100
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iluvmarillion View Drop Down
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Originally posted by judahbenkenobi judahbenkenobi wrote:

I've given Wobbler's "From Silence to Somewhere" and All Traps on Earth a thousand spins and just can't get to like them! I just don't understand how they're in the top 30, while ELP is barely present in the list

I can't get into Wobbler either. Personal taste is what it is. I've never been able to get into Gates of Delirium but then I was listening to the live Symphonic Yes DVD the other day and I quite enjoyed it. So maybe after all these years I've been wrong about that album and everybody else has been right. Now I'll have to get out my album copy of Animals and play that again for the one thousand time and maybe I'll get why I don't like it and everybody else does.
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Ultimately the top 100 is a showcase for the best 'progressive' rock music ever made. Take it as a suggestion of what is worth checking out first. The problem is that people have their own tastes and put more emphasis on this or that or the other in terms of the content of the music. Music is art but does have an element of sport in terms of how complicated it is or how fast you can play an instrument. This is something that has some value in music. 

As a general point, I get a bit fed up with being talked down to. I haven' read Pedro's response to my post because I'm sure he is just talking down to me for the thousandth time. I will appreciate and think about music exactly how I want. I would actually be very weak minded if I didn't and hopefully I am not!  
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Originally posted by ForestFriend ForestFriend wrote:

Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

I def think albums like blacksstar, abbey road and related should be included. They have the ratings, apparently they just aren’t prog enough?


As far as this website is concerned, the "Proto Prog" and "Prog Related" categories are not prog rock, so they're not included on the top 100.

But I would disagree with the notion that jazz fusion or the various prog metal categories shouldn't be included. Some jazz fusion has a lot of prog rock influence (e.g., Return To Forever's Romantic Warrior) - as in, the music sounds like fusion of jazz and prog, not simply jazz and rock. And metal is a subgenre of rock, so as far as I'm concerned, a prog metal band is a kind of prog rock band. May not be your cup of tea, but removing prog metal would make as much sense as removing bands who aren't symphonic enough.


I also love Return to Forever's Romantic Warrior album but for me, there is very, very little Jazz in there
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Originally posted by LAM-SGC LAM-SGC wrote:

Far too much stuff that is not prog. Progressive metal is metal that has progressed within metal, it is not metal that has become prog.

Where are the progressive house, progressive garage and progressive hip hop artists then?   Exactly!!!!
Progressive metal is metal not prog.

EXACTLY. THANK YOU.
 

Originally posted by miamiscot miamiscot wrote:

Jazz is Jazz.
Metal is Metal.
Prog is Prog.

Those three genres are very close to my heart but they are separate genres.

I doubt Close To The Edge appears on any jazz or metal "best of" list. 

This is problematic as it keeps some great LP's off the Top 100. Keep those artists on the site but off the chart!!! Like The Beatles. They are on the site but I don't see Sgt. Pepper or Abbey Road on the list...

Keep the Top 100 Prog!!!

Exactly. The people that disagree with this will also be the first to break down prog into 1,905 sub genres, and argue about why each is what and who and when.

"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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I don't really have any beef - in the 'it is what it is' camp really.

The Kind of Blue chestnut comes up again and again on the forums, understandably, and I've even found myself explaining it on other sites where it has been used to poke fun at PA. FWIW I think the policy of full inclusion of an artist's work when they are added is clearly preferable to the alternative, even given this kind of unintended consequence.

Having said all that, it strikes me that a possible way of fixing the issue would be to add a filter to the Top 100 algorithm that would eliminate any album released before (say) 1966. This would remove Kind of Blue and prevent other albums recorded before there was any progressive rock from featuring. But I dare say this has been thought of before and rejected.

Edited by Mascodagama - February 19 2020 at 01:45
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Miles Davis' "Kind of Blue" is one of my all-time favourite Jazz albums, so I have no problem with it being included in the PA Hot 100 table. Smile

Edited by Psychedelic Paul - February 19 2020 at 02:31
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Ultimately the top 100 is a showcase for the best 'progressive' rock music ever made. Take it as a suggestion of what is worth checking out first. The problem is that people have their own tastes and put more emphasis on this or that or the other in terms of the content of the music. Music is art but does have an element of sport in terms of how complicated it is or how fast you can play an instrument. This is something that has some value in music. 
 

Great comment, when I was first diving deeper into prog over a decade ago I used the top 100 as a resource for exploration, ended up picking up about 70% of it over the subsequent years.
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Points: 20030 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2020 at 05:01
Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Why should an album like images and words which is one of the most influential prog albums ever be excluded?
 
It may be influential but unless enough people have the same opinion as you it could fall out of the top 100.
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Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Why should an album like images and words which is one of the most influential prog albums ever be excluded?
 
It may be influential but unless enough people have the same opinion as you it could fall out of the top 100.

And, sadly, a band from this or that place, will never be heard ... because the country is not as big as America or England, or has an internet as well developed as we do. In those places only the well to do have access to it, btw ... and none of my old friends in the state of Sao Paolo, have internet as yet ... we still use letters and packages for stuff.

This is the main issue with "popular" ... the idea that nothing else is as good! History has proven this so wrong, it's not funny, and America even has one of the best examples ... black music and jazz! Their story is enough to bring a lot of tears ... but they made it!
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Point of order: I must ask, is the Top 100 supposed to be a prog top 100 representing progressive music or is it closer to the Top 100 favourite albums of forum members? It is an important distinction, because any Top 100 of prog that omits iconic albums from true progressive bands in place of metal, hard rock, pop and jazz albums is not worth much as a representative guide.
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Originally posted by LAM-SGC LAM-SGC wrote:

Point of order: I must ask, is the Top 100 supposed to be a prog top 100 representing progressive music or is it closer to the Top 100 favourite albums of forum members? It is an important distinction, because any Top 100 of prog that omits iconic albums from true progressive bands in place of metal, hard rock, pop and jazz albums is not worth much as a representative guide.


Everything is explained about the top 100. What iconic albums are omitted? Also what is iconic for one person, is nothing interesting for another.
What is a true progressive band? This reminds me of the whole "true metal" debate some metalheads try to pull. A load of... nonsense.

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Originally posted by LAM-SGC LAM-SGC wrote:

Point of order: I must ask, is the Top 100 supposed to be a prog top 100 representing progressive music or is it closer to the Top 100 favourite albums of forum members? It is an important distinction, because any Top 100 of prog that omits iconic albums from true progressive bands in place of metal, hard rock, pop and jazz albums is not worth much as a representative guide.

The top 100 is merely a representation of the highest rated albums on PA..according to those that have ranked/reviewed said albums. Nothing more nothing less
When we get into ‘the best’ or indeed ‘most important’ band/album we’re veering into subjectivity..and well music is inherantly subjective ie we all have our faves and thoughts on music..and we can’t possibly cater to every tastebud out there.

So there is no top 100 which is purposely selected by X group of people...only ratings and reviews that in the end form a list.
http://www.progarchives.com/top-prog-albums.asp?salbumtypes=1

Edited by Guldbamsen - February 19 2020 at 09:08
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Reading through the thread: Basically the conclusion is: Shut the whole thing down, it's pointless. We will never come to a true consensus.
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by LAM-SGC LAM-SGC wrote:

Point of order: I must ask, is the Top 100 supposed to be a prog top 100 representing progressive music or is it closer to the Top 100 favourite albums of forum members? It is an important distinction, because any Top 100 of prog that omits iconic albums from true progressive bands in place of metal, hard rock, pop and jazz albums is not worth much as a representative guide.


Everything is explained about the top 100. What iconic albums are omitted? Also what is iconic for one person, is nothing interesting for another.
What is a true progressive band? This reminds me of the whole "true metal" debate some metalheads try to pull. A load of... nonsense.



Give me a good definition of prog and I'll tell you what a true prog band is.

Edited by LAM-SGC - February 19 2020 at 09:17
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Originally posted by LAM-SGC LAM-SGC wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by LAM-SGC LAM-SGC wrote:

Point of order: I must ask, is the Top 100 supposed to be a prog top 100 representing progressive music or is it closer to the Top 100 favourite albums of forum members? It is an important distinction, because any Top 100 of prog that omits iconic albums from true progressive bands in place of metal, hard rock, pop and jazz albums is not worth much as a representative guide.


Everything is explained about the top 100. What iconic albums are omitted? Also what is iconic for one person, is nothing interesting for another.
What is a true progressive band? This reminds me of the whole "true metal" debate some metalheads try to pull. A load of... nonsense.



Give me a good definition of prog and I'll tell you what a true prog band is.


PA's definition and explanations are good enough.
http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive-rock.asp#definition
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by LAM-SGC LAM-SGC wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by LAM-SGC LAM-SGC wrote:

Point of order: I must ask, is the Top 100 supposed to be a prog top 100 representing progressive music or is it closer to the Top 100 favourite albums of forum members? It is an important distinction, because any Top 100 of prog that omits iconic albums from true progressive bands in place of metal, hard rock, pop and jazz albums is not worth much as a representative guide.


Everything is explained about the top 100. What iconic albums are omitted? Also what is iconic for one person, is nothing interesting for another.
What is a true progressive band? This reminds me of the whole "true metal" debate some metalheads try to pull. A load of... nonsense.



Give me a good definition of prog and I'll tell you what a true prog band is.


PA's definition and explanations are good enough.



Exactly, so you don't need to ask me what a true progressive band is then.
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Points: 43654 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2020 at 09:29
Originally posted by LAM-SGC LAM-SGC wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by LAM-SGC LAM-SGC wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by LAM-SGC LAM-SGC wrote:

Point of order: I must ask, is the Top 100 supposed to be a prog top 100 representing progressive music or is it closer to the Top 100 favourite albums of forum members? It is an important distinction, because any Top 100 of prog that omits iconic albums from true progressive bands in place of metal, hard rock, pop and jazz albums is not worth much as a representative guide.


Everything is explained about the top 100. What iconic albums are omitted? Also what is iconic for one person, is nothing interesting for another.
What is a true progressive band? This reminds me of the whole "true metal" debate some metalheads try to pull. A load of... nonsense.



Give me a good definition of prog and I'll tell you what a true prog band is.


PA's definition and explanations are good enough.



Exactly, so you don't need to ask me what a true progressive band is then.


I know what a progressive band is, a true progressive band, probably not. Ermm
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Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Miles Davis' "Kind of Blue" is one of my all-time favourite Jazz albums, so I have no problem with it being included in the PA Hot 100 table. Smile

Then it should be included in an all-time 100 jazz table, or is it me who is missing something?😕
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Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Miles Davis' "Kind of Blue" is one of my all-time favourite Jazz albums, so I have no problem with it being included in the PA Hot 100 table. Smile

Then it should be included in an all-time 100 jazz table, or is it me who is missing something?😕
If Miles Davis is included in ProgArchives on account of his "Bitches Brew" album being Jazz-Rock/Fusion, then all of his other albums have to be included too, regardless of whether they're even remotely proggy. Many PA members have obviously voted for his very non-prog "Kind of Blue" album, so I have no problem with it being included amongst the Top 100 PA albums. On the other hand though, before I arrived at ProgArchives, I never would have considered any Miles Davis albums to be Progressive Rock. Smile
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I’ll add another. I love both these albums, but Moonmadness should be ranked higher than Mirage imo.
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