Why so few Russian Prog groups in the 70&#039;s?

Quote CPicard

Thanks(0)

Quote

Topic: Why so few Russian Prog groups in the 70's?
Posted: June 11 2018 at 10:04

I wonder why.

siLLy puPPy View Drop Down

Special Collaborator

PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic

Joined: October 05 2013
Location: SFcaUsA
Status: Offline
Points: 15243

Post Options

Thanks(0)

Quote

Posted: June 11 2018 at 15:39

They were too busy studying nuclear physics and ballet :P

Seriously, they didn't get the memo i guess :o

https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy

siLLy puPPy View Drop Down

Special Collaborator

PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic

Joined: October 05 2013
Location: SFcaUsA
Status: Offline
Points: 15243

Post Options

Thanks(0)

Quote

Posted: February 11 2020 at 20:58

Were there any?

https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy

LAM-SGC

Forum Senior Member

Joined: December 26 2018
Location: se
Status: Offline
Points: 1544

Post Options

Thanks(1)

Quote

Posted: February 12 2020 at 01:33

Because most people were dirt poor and most music stuff was unavailable and what was available was extremely expensive. Plus there was a ban on importing stuff from the west, especially unnecessary stuff like jeans and certain instruments. It is shocking to read about or to hear about it, as I did, directly from my best friend who lived there. And of course there is the obvious reason of political and social oppression, it wasn't permitted.

Edited by LAM-SGC - February 12 2020 at 01:36

siLLy puPPy View Drop Down

Special Collaborator

PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic

Joined: October 05 2013
Location: SFcaUsA
Status: Offline
Points: 15243

Post Options

http://rateyourmusic.com/customchart?page=1&chart_type=top&type=album&year=1970s&genre_include=1&include_child_genres=1&genres=progressive+rock&include_child_genres_chk=1&include=both&origin_countries=Russian+Federation&limit=none&countries=

Thanks(0)

Quote

Posted: February 12 2020 at 07:00

I didn't think there would be any due to the reasons stated by our friend above but a quick search on Rate Your Music suggests that there were a very few. Enough to count on one hand. None of these artists are listed on PA but deserve investigation.

I'm listening to the 1977 album by ARIEL whose debut album Русские картинки translates into Russian Pictures. This is clearly prog that should be on the site.

Edited by siLLy puPPy - February 12 2020 at 07:06

https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy

siLLy puPPy View Drop Down

Special Collaborator

PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic

Joined: October 05 2013
Location: SFcaUsA
Status: Offline
Points: 15243

Post Options

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil%27s_Bride_(1974_film)

Thanks(0)

Quote

Posted: February 12 2020 at 07:38

Vyacheslav Ganelin made an entire rock opera with Velnio Nuotaka

Probably the most ambitious example of Russian prog but sounds like he moved from Russia to Lithuania

The state was big on classical so they probably got away with throwing some rock into this by sticking to the playbook for the most part but sounds like a consideration for inclusion

https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy

LAM-SGC

Forum Senior Member

Joined: December 26 2018
Location: se
Status: Offline
Points: 1544

Post Options

Thanks(0)

Quote

Posted: February 14 2020 at 21:25

I spoke to my best friend* about this today, she was born in 1980 and grew up in a city about 300km south of Moscow. And she said the first time a rock concert of any type of rock was allowed in her city was in 1995, it was outdoors, it was a massive event, and she played there with her dark metal band. She said that in Moscow things in music started to open up a few years earlier around 90,91. She said that before that the only concerts allowed anywhere were classical music, traditional folk music or patriotic choirs. And lots of kids were in such choirs that were connected to patriotic soviet youth groups, so basically for example, choir practice on Thursday evening and on the rifle range Friday evening and camping at the weekend.

*Btw, anyone else who really dislikes and doesn't use the words girlfriend and boyfriend?

Edited by LAM-SGC - February 14 2020 at 22:29

NotAProghead View Drop Down

Special Collaborator

Errors & Omissions Team

Joined: October 22 2005
Location: Russia
Status: Offline
Points: 7852

Post Options

Thanks(2)

Quote

Posted: February 15 2020 at 08:16

LAM-SGC wrote:

I spoke to my best friend* about this today, she was born in 1980 and grew up in a city about 300km south of Moscow. And she said the first time a rock concert of any type of rock was allowed in her city was in 1995, it was outdoors, it was a massive event, and she played there with her dark metal band. She said that in Moscow things in music started to open up a few years earlier around 90,91. She said that before that the only concerts allowed anywhere were classical music, traditional folk music or patriotic choirs.

Complete bullsh*t! It made my day. LOL

Seems your girlfriend lives in some secret city about 300 km of Moscow.

I guess Russian in this case means Soviet.

Actually in the 60s and 70s there were lots of bands, every university had several bands, every school had at least one band, factories and research institutes also often had bands. It was called 'samodeyatelnost' (amateur artistic ensembles) Yes, the term "rock" was forbidden, and they were called "vocal-instrumental ensembles", but they had the same drums, guitars, keys and, quite often, brass sections. These university/school bands were not allowed to be paid for gigs. They could play at university/school clubs for their own pleasure, quite often they could get some money for playing at dancing floors, summer student camps etc. Later some of these 'amateur artists' became professionals and even nationally-known stars.

One of the most known bands (quite proggy track, btw):

To make living on music artists had to work officially in the state philharmonies. These so-called philharmoniс vocal-instrumental ensembles were extremely popular, recorded singles and albums (though not too often in comparison to their colleagues in countries like Poland, Hungary or DDR), toured extensively, played clubs, theaters, most popular bands played even hockey and sometimes football arenas. And there were hundreds of official ensembles! I have no idea why mentioned girl saw only traditional and patriotic choirs. Confused

Yes, official work had its limitations (i.e. censorship, the neccesity to play songs of "official" composers and lyricists etc). Thus in parallel with official ensembles rock bands with their own repertoire had to be in undeground until the early-mid 80s. After 1985 underground days were over.

Another myth: Soviet artists didn't have the access to records of Western rock music. It's only partly true. Yes, import LPs were available mostly on black market and were too expensive. But people made numerous tape copies (it was a big pleasure to have a copy recorded directly from LP, most often it was a copy of a tape copy). But anyway popular Western bands (from The Beatles, Stones, Chicago etc to fusion acts like Mahavishnu Orchestra) were known to music fans. Obviously, if ABBA or Deep Purple were household names, artists like Jaco Pastorius were popular among musicians and specialists.

Add here radio, some Western LPs made by "Melodia" label by license and the possibility to buy in stores (and for reasonable prices) LPs of bands from Communist bloc countries (Hungary, Poland, DDR etc) where censorship was not as strong as in the USSR.

Now how proggy these bands (ensembles) were. Rarely they were pure prog. Leaders of many ensembles were from an older generation (i.e. fans of jazz in general and the band Chicago in particular), that's why most ensembles in early-mid 70s had a brass section. In the end of 70s - early 80s brass sections were replaced by synths. But many non-prog acts had some proggy songs, for example:

Why not too many prog acts in the 70's?

First of all - the lack of instruments. Philharmonies could buy imported instruments and PA systems only for most popular acts (like PESNYARY and some others), the majority couldn't afford it. For underground acts it was even harder (via black market).

Second reason - Soviet audience was mostly lyrics-oriented, i.e. quite often, especially in case of then underground rock, lyrics in native language mattered more than music.

Edited by NotAProghead - February 15 2020 at 13:17

Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)

LAM-SGC

Forum Senior Member

Joined: December 26 2018
Location: se
Status: Offline
Points: 1544

Post Options

Thanks(0)

Quote

Posted: February 15 2020 at 10:26

NotAProghead wrote:

Complete bullsh*t!

NO,not bullsh*t. All true.
You've never been to Oryol then? Actually I think it might be more like 400km from Moscow. It is a right sh*t hole to be honest. She left in 2002 when she moved here to Sweden. We were back there last year.

NotAProghead View Drop Down

Special Collaborator

Errors & Omissions Team

Joined: October 22 2005
Location: Russia
Status: Offline
Points: 7852

Post Options

Thanks(0)

Quote

Posted: February 15 2020 at 11:46

^ What you call a sh*thole is actually a city with more than 300 thousand people.

If your girlfriend, born in 1980, knows better what was before and soon after her birth, be so.

But if you have questions I'll try to answer.

Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)

HackettFan View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: June 20 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Status: Offline
Points: 7951

Post Options

Quote HackettFan

Thanks(0)

Quote

Posted: February 15 2020 at 16:30

Why is this in the Just For Fun thread?

A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now)

NotAProghead View Drop Down

Special Collaborator

Errors & Omissions Team

Joined: October 22 2005
Location: Russia
Status: Offline
Points: 7852

Post Options

Thanks(0)

Quote

Posted: February 15 2020 at 17:13

^ Thanks, I didn't notice. That's funny. Smile

Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)

Atavachron View Drop Down

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65258

Post Options

Quote Atavachron

Thanks(0)

Quote

Posted: February 15 2020 at 17:18

It should be in the main Lounge, it would get a lot more hits considering JFF is a hidden thread... and there's ceratinly nothing 'fun' about Russian prog Tongue

"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy

ExittheLemming View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11415

Post Options

Quote ExittheLemming

Thanks(0)

Quote

Posted: February 15 2020 at 18:05

CPicard wrote:

I wonder why.

Probably the same reason as the dearth of cutting edge funk emanating from East Germany in the 70's

NotAProghead View Drop Down

Special Collaborator

Errors & Omissions Team

Joined: October 22 2005
Location: Russia
Status: Offline
Points: 7852

Post Options

Thanks(0)

Quote

Posted: February 15 2020 at 18:26

I don't know who did it, but thanks for moving the thread to Prog Lounge.

Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)

LAM-SGC

Forum Senior Member

Joined: December 26 2018
Location: se
Status: Offline
Points: 1544

Post Options

Thanks(0)

Quote

Posted: February 15 2020 at 18:32

NotAProghead wrote:

^ What you call a sh*thole is actually a city with more than 300 thousand people.

If your girlfriend, born in 1980, knows better what was before and soon after her birth, be so.

But if you have questions I'll try to answer.

sh*thole has nothing to do with the size of a city, it has to do with the quality of the place, she calls it a sh*thoke herself. And she was 15 in 95, which isn't even close to when she was born. Also there are about 150 million people in Russia,so you'll excuse me if I in turn dismiss your rude dismissal of what she says. Your individual experience does not represent 150 million people.

cstack3

Forum Senior Member

VIP Member

Joined: July 20 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ USA
Status: Offline
Points: 7264

Post Options

Quote cstack3

Thanks(0)

Quote

Posted: February 15 2020 at 20:13

Interesting topic. I was in Romania in 1979 (it was Communist, Ceaucescu was the leader) and heard "Awaken" on a small radio that the tour bus driver had.

When I was in Czechoslovakia in 1994(Communist, Husak was the leader) all the young guys were wearing leather jackets with "Iron Maiden," "Judas Priest" and other Western band logos & names....I walked past an ancient wood fence in the city of my grandfather's birth, Brodske (now in Slovakia) and saw "METALLICA" painted in huge letters. It was the "peristroika" era in in the USSR.

I think it was going on & we didn't get to hear much of it, but clearly, they had access to it.

p.s. this is me in Bratislava, Slovakia, posing with my evil twin, Vladimir Ilyich Lenin.

Edited by cstack3 - February 15 2020 at 20:39

I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!!

Mortte

Forum Senior Member

Joined: November 11 2016
Location: Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 5538

Post Options

Quote Mortte

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOfLoD6Rx7g

Thanks(1)

Quote

Posted: February 15 2020 at 22:55

Have to add that there were western bands playing in Soviet at least in eighties. Finnish band "Sielun Veljet" (their English name was L´Amourder) were many times in Soviet, in this next piece the authorities thought their concert has gone too wild and they put the lights there, but the band didn´t care at all, they went even wilder:

Also, I was in Soviet in the begin of nineties and bought there albums from Rolling Stones & Creedence, they´re Soviet-versions from their only record company melodiya.

Here´s also really great prog piece from Estonia from seventies, I think Soviet authorities didn´t let them record whole album:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7c5G-JYSEzQ

Mortte

Forum Senior Member

Joined: November 11 2016
Location: Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 5538

Post Options

Quote Mortte

Thanks(1)

Quote

Posted: February 15 2020 at 23:00

cstack3 wrote:

Interesting topic. I was in Romania in 1979 (it was Communist, Ceaucescu was the leader) and heard "Awaken" on a small radio that the tour bus driver had.

I think it was going on & we didn't get to hear much of it, but clearly, they had access to it.

p.s. this is me in Bratislava, Slovakia, posing with my evil twin, Vladimir Ilyich Lenin.

Really great picture! Smile

cstack3

Forum Senior Member

VIP Member

Joined: July 20 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ USA
Status: Offline
Points: 7264

Post Options

Quote cstack3