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Why is Tull's "A Passion Play" rated so low? |
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Logan 
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Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 35748 |
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 Posted: October 27 2019 at 17:02 |
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So I did merge softandwet's "A Passion Play?" topic post, and all the subsequent replies one-by-one into this topic, which would make some of the responses as well as his post seem weird when reading through this thread if one were not aware that I had taken this action.
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softandwet
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Posted: October 28 2019 at 06:44 |
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I definitely know what a passion play is and I understand it's meaning, but it just doesn't match musically (at least for the moment) with me. Please stop being haughty and try to understand the meaning of TAAB then, because I think it somehow concerns you : "and your wise men don't know how it feels ; to be thick as a brick". |
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SteveG
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Posted: October 28 2019 at 09:47 |
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(According to Al Gore.)
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softandwet
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Posted: October 28 2019 at 10:39 |
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(According to Al Gore.) [/QUOTE]It's more about the passage between childhood and adulthood and about the perpetual replacement of generations (especially in the government and in the world of work) through years Edited by softandwet - October 28 2019 at 10:40 |
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SteveG
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Posted: October 28 2019 at 11:12 |
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 Really? I thought it helped saved the Rain Forrest back in the seventies.
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tamijo_II
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Posted: October 28 2019 at 12:40 |
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I think APP require a rather unik taste unlike most JT albums, that is actually quite straight forward, and easy to swallow compared to a lot of the music WE are listening too. Guess that is why it will not be rated too high compared to other JT albums.
Note: I am not a huge fan of the album myself, but that is not important in this context.
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Slartibartfast
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Posted: October 28 2019 at 12:41 |
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Ratings are overrated and I could give a sh*t if an album that really appeals to me doesn't to others,
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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tamijo_II
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Posted: October 28 2019 at 12:58 |
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So true, but fair enough to question ratings, as they are a part of the site.
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SteveG
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Posted: October 28 2019 at 13:06 |
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 What?
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moshkito
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Posted: October 28 2019 at 15:23 |
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Right ... like the other side of the coin is not "thick as a brick" as well! Get ... ce-real! It has nothing to do with being haughty or stupid ... however, there is a serious issue with people these days not liking things that preach to what they know, and sometimes the work seems to go in a different direction that you or I do not understand ... but THAT IS NOT A REASON TO DISLIKE IT ... because it makes you feel like ... how the heck does this mean that? ... and on top of it, the cover of the album is even more ... apart from the theme of the music and its words ... I kinda call it the end of classical music/work ... which has been very true since the late 60's ... and nowadays, few folks can name a bunch of classical music "greats", like those days ... heck I got to see Nureyev and Fonteyn, and later Misha ... and later yet, Bob Fosse ... and you are probably going ... who gives a sheepdip! Those folks made any rock star, including The Beatles and The Rolling Stones not as good, or as impressive ... they were "the art" ... and the best most of us can do here for the Beatles and Stones? ... we remember the songs ... nothing else! Musically, APP is more on the progressive and experimental side of things, which I think Ian wanted to take for his work ... but the FM radio, by that time in LA and NY was already a top ten BS/CRAP bunch of songs (well, some good ones actually!) and many folks trashed the album, and instead played a song or two from AQUALUNG ... which, I, personally, do not find cool at all ... but then, when you got folks that don't respect the arts, they just love their songs, that's what you get ... and we got a whole generation that only saw that, on top of the mememememememoooohhhh generation! And now ... those folks go puffing again!
Edited by moshkito - October 28 2019 at 15:25 |
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softandwet
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Posted: October 30 2019 at 04:10 |
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No, I dislike(d) it and I say it, as I dislike Yes' Relayer. Sometimes we have to admit it and it's not because I don't like it that I will give it a 3/5 or a 2, I would even recommend it to a friend who would be interested by JT. Now as an update, I've actually listened to APP twice yesterday and now I like it! It will probably take time for it to be on the same level as TAAB but I see the potential it has. Then I don't give a heck about the Beatles and the Rolling Stones, they mean nothing to me and I have never listened to them. I'm kind of a proghead since 2 years and before that I was into (post) punk ; and if you say that musical art ceased to exist with APP, then you're wrong. Try to open yourself to other music that appeared in the late 70's until the mid 90's and I think you will find interesting things. Edited by softandwet - October 30 2019 at 04:11 |
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moshkito
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Posted: October 30 2019 at 06:36 |
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Glad to hear it ... there is a lot of "classical" music that is not my cup of tea as well, but I'm not going to review it or rate it, because my feeling is that I do not get it, or understand it enough ... or don't hear similar things enough!
The Beatles, in time, you might take a look at the time span ... music in the early 60's was dominated by radio in Europe and America, until things like "Pirate Radio" appeared and in the early 60's America's radio changed ... the FM band came alive, and was for the most part FREE, STEREO, and NOT CORPORATE OWNED ... and the things that you heard made all the early "progressive" and "prog" bands famous ... and by 1980, all of these stations had been bought by corporations that turned it into the mass product of today ... and the "classics" are their version of top ten songs from the early FM days ... you see, many of those songs were LONG and they were NEVER played on regular radio ... so when the Beatles "The Long and Winding Road" sold millions on a single, it helped break the impasse for playing and enjoying long cuts! (There were others earlier also!) The Beatles helped bring about a lot of music changes, but it could be said that a lot of these events were coming around, BECAUSE the media made it easier for folks to find and hear ... 10 years before that in 3/4's of America, everyone would think it was horrible music (vastly superior to most top ten, even today!), and just bad stuff. Fast forward ... voila ... how things change!
2 things ... welcome to the proghead level of meditation! The 2nd thing ... you mis-interpreted the comment about the musical art ... the comment about the cover of APP ... is that "classical music" is almost dead, or has died ... the ballerina is dead and she is in a very large concert hall ... it's like Ian was saying that the NEW CLASSICAL MUSIC OF TODAY is not the old stuff of the past ... and in this sense the value of "passion play" becomes clearer than otherwise. Passion Plays are historical and go back many years, and it's like the cover is saying ... it's a dying story and element in the arts/music if you will. And it is ... most folks here probably can't name a bunch of classical conductors these days, and in those days you could easily name many ... Leinsdorf, Karajan, Bhom, Boulez, Bolt, Davies, Haitink, Klemperer, Levine, Mehta, Ormandi, Ozawa, Solti, Stokowski, Toscanini ... and all of these still "rule" and "control" a gross majority of the classical music out there that is sold today! Today? ... wtf is classical music?
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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softandwet
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Posted: October 30 2019 at 06:42 |
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I now understand. You mean that Ian wanted to create a new kind of Classical Music wit APP, a kind of contemporary music.
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SteveG
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Posted: October 30 2019 at 06:49 |
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I definitely understand the vibe that APP throws off. It certainly is different from anything else in prog rock and the album, at least to me, does have it's great moments. I just don't know if Ian wanted to be experimental or just lost his muse. I suppose that's the next great APP debate.
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awaken_yesfan
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Posted: November 03 2019 at 14:02 |
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I don't know why it's rated so low, but I can say for myself, why it isn't my favorite Tull album.
It's unmemorable and just... boring. On the contrary, Thick As A Brick, was complex, but melodic. But I cannot remember any memorable melody from A Passion Play. The same feeling I have about Yes' Tales of Topographic Oceans. That's an examples, why some music critics labeled prog as "pretentious"
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Lewian
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Posted: November 03 2019 at 14:25 |
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What melodies are memorable is probably very personal... For me in this respect APP has a lot to offer, almost on a par with TAAB, and light years above TFTO.
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awaken_yesfan
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Posted: November 03 2019 at 14:42 |
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Interesting, that the same issue as with APP I had with TFTO. I listened it few times in attempt to love it with next and next spin. But it didn't happen, so I gave up. Maybe I'll try again both APP and TFTO after this topic.
Edited by awaken_yesfan - November 03 2019 at 14:43 |
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jamesbaldwin
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Posted: November 03 2019 at 16:42 |
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The most important Italian music site, Ondarock, a few years ago compiled a ranking of the 50 best progressive albums (I created a thread with that ranking here on PA a few months ago) and APP is not present.
But on the jethro Tull page, the reviewer who wrote it considers APP the best jT album: 1) A Passion Play 8,5 2) Aqualung 8 3) Thick as a Brick 8 4) Minstrell in the Gallery 8 5) Stand Up 7,5 here the page: https://www.ondarock.it/rockedintorni/jethrotull.htm This is the translation of the review on APP: "In 1973, after a long and troubled gestation, another album containing another suite, interspersed with a short cabaret interval: A Passion Play. The differences with the previous one are more obvious than the similarities. Passion Play is much darker, more tiring and less fluid, it lacks the effervescence of the previous work, while preferring a descriptive dimension, to musical panels taking over; but the structuring of the piece is admirable, a masterpiece interlocking, the arrangements are rich in nuances, Anderson reduces his flautistic flichetor fliour to make room for other wind instruments such as sax. A Passion Play is the progressive record of Jethro Tull, much more than Thick As A Brick, because of the pathos that pervades it and the deep musicality that underlies it, a musicality studied, hyperstructured and full of nuances, but characteristic of Anderson's writing, never brainy, with open and extroverted melodies but never trivial. For critics, especially the English one, it is a boring and pretentious record, statements partly also true, for many fans it is the summation of the sound craftsmanship of the Tulls and their leader, for those who write their greatest masterpiece. After that jewel, the group will come out of the progressive styles, at least intended in a restrictive sense, to no longer re-enter it. The gestation of A Passion Play is tiring and exhausting as the next tour is, Anderson is tired and always in a quarrel with the press and the results are seen the following year, when the modest War Child comes out, where you recover the song form with very little interesting results." |
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Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion.
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jamesbaldwin
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Posted: November 03 2019 at 16:43 |
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The best Italian music site, Ondarock, has compiled a list of the 50 best progressive records and A Passion Play is not present. The site's Jethro Tull reviewer, however, considers A Passion Play the best Jethro Tull album: 1) APP 8,5 2) Aqualung 8 3) TAAB 8 4) Minstrell 8 5) Stand Up 7,5 Here the translation of the reviwe on APP: In 1973, after a long and troubled gestation, another album containing another suite, interspersed with a short cabaret interval: A Passion Play. The differences with the previous one are more obvious than the similarities. Passion Play is much darker, more tiring and less fluid, it lacks the effervescence of the previous work, while preferring a descriptive dimension, to musical panels taking over; but the structuring of the piece is admirable, a masterpiece interlocking, the arrangements are rich in nuances, Anderson reduces his flautistic flichetor fliour to make room for other wind instruments such as sax. A Passion Play is the progressive record of Jethro Tull, much more than Thick As A Brick, because of the pathos that pervades it and the deep musicality that underlies it, a musicality studied, hyperstructured and full of nuances, but characteristic of Anderson's writing, never brainy, with open and extroverted melodies but never trivial. For critics, especially the English one, it is a boring and pretentious record, statements partly also true, for many fans it is the summation of the sound craftsmanship of the Tulls and their leader, for those who write their greatest masterpiece. After that jewel, the group will come out of the progressive styles, at least intended in a restrictive sense, to no longer re-enter it. The gestation of A Passion Play is tiring and exhausting as the next tour is, Anderson is tired and always in a quarrel with the press and the results are seen the following year, when the modest War Child comes out, where you recover the song form with very little interesting results."
Edited by jamesbaldwin - November 03 2019 at 16:46 |
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Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion.
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SteveG
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Posted: November 04 2019 at 12:54 |
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^ Off course Italians like it. Its the closest thing in prog rock to an opera!
Edited by SteveG - November 04 2019 at 12:55 |
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moshkito wrote: