The American Politics Thread

Edit: The previous post I was replying to has disappeared.   

Edited by Easy Money - September 26 2019 at 05:14

Frenetic Zetetic wrote: And such delusional derision and irrational perceptions are all the left has, or they'd have nothing at all. TRUMP CAMPAIGN +$5M IN THE 24 HOURS SINCE PELOSI IMPEACHMENT ANNOUNCEMENT Too bad they banned straws, or they'd have something to grasp. All you have to do is watch the news. The left cementing his second term. The left is its own worst enemy, just like in 2016. Good job pushing moderates to the right! That really showed the 1%-ers, huh? Keep listening to Warren and Sanders tell you how they'll stop the 1% they're a part of, lmao. Lefties gonna left.

progaardvark wrote: Frenetic Zetetic wrote: And such delusional derision and irrational perceptions are all the left has, or they'd have nothing at all. TRUMP CAMPAIGN +$5M IN THE 24 HOURS SINCE PELOSI IMPEACHMENT ANNOUNCEMENT Too bad they banned straws, or they'd have something to grasp. All you have to do is watch the news. The left cementing his second term. The left is its own worst enemy, just like in 2016. Good job pushing moderates to the right! That really showed the 1%-ers, huh? Keep listening to Warren and Sanders tell you how they'll stop the 1% they're a part of, lmao. Lefties gonna left. Meh, that's just further proof that there are a lot of dumb people out there wasting their money on dumb things. What is it with you Trump supporters typing in all caps and changing your font colors all the time? You have ego problems like the criminal you worship every day??

Atavachron wrote: ^ Well he is sleepy, but on the other hand his response today regarding Trump's attacks were rather dignified.   But yeah Warren is a force, and coming on far stronger than I ever imagined.   Win or lose the nom, she's awesome

micky wrote: rogerthat wrote: micky wrote: ohhhh.. this is going to be interesting... not a crime..  but dereliction  of constitutional duties... which for most thinking adults ... is akin to saying the sky is blue. Trump has sh*t all over it for the last 2 plus years... this is going to be fascinating..   and I agree with what I am reading.. Trump is in big f**king trouble. If that summarized phone call wasn't enough.. and it isn't.. there is supposedly much more to this than a single phone call. Enough to get the intelligence community in arms....That will likely be coming out. .and soon.. goes to back to a long running riff I have been hammering on for several years.   This is the likely going to be the last chance the Republican Party has to save itself.  And some aleady are predicting that if this really gets worse.. and well.. it is likely to be.   The Senate may well convict him.. as they are looking at a short term disaster in the upcoming election.. and long term extinction.  Make no mistake.. even Republicans in Congress hate Trump. They rode him as long as they could.. but finally perhaps we could be reaching the point where they jump off. and with Pence waiting in the wings.. Mostly, they will be terrified at the thought of a Prez who could well throw them to the wolves if he doesn't like them. And how the f**k does Rudy get to be on such calls? Whether or not he was, that's what Trump wanted. Unless the GOP has already gone full Nazi, this might be the point where they book their profits and sell him out. Because he has gone too far. I don't see it as a win for the Democrats though. It will anger the Republican base and turn them out in yuuuge numbers. And Count Dracula, sorry Mike Pence, will be the new Prez. yeah.. I've heard that before..  same thinking in the weeks before the 2018 elections..... the Kavanaugh sh*t show would motivate Republians to get out.. and was part of their strategy in that whole sorry affair. and f**k yeah it did.. Republicans turned out to a historic degree...problem was..   it motivated Democrats to turn out in even higher percertages.... and their numbers far exceed Republians.  Granted I havent seen a Math text book in 25 years.. but I did stay at a Hollidy Inn once..   that is bad math man.. thus while most on Capitial Hill are disconnected fools who only see the 3 feet in front on their faces..  they could well see past the bluster and public posturing (retaking the House??? hahahahah.. yeah sure)   They tried this with Kavanaugh it it flopped..   I don't think they are stupid enough to think it will work in 2020.  Thus I don't necessary agree that impeachment is DOA in the Senate. It might be their only chance to keep the Senate .. and retain any realistic chance of keeping the White House.  Ratcheting up Repbliban support is not going to win .. depressing Democratic enthusiasm.. take Trump out of the equation and a Pence v. Warren matchup for example becomes much much more interesting.. ie Pence might have a chance.. As has been said.. and so it is.. Impeachment has little to do with the law, even the Constitution... it is all about poltics.  If a group of Senators in private decide ditching Trump is the best thing for the party.. and of course it is...  they could well do it. that was the risk.. always was with impeaching Trump.. the off chance the Republicans would pull a 'McCain' and get him on his way to Riker's Island after the FBI is done with him after he leaves office..   it is all about Democratic anger.. and their enthusiasm to vote and vote out Trump. Take Trump out of the equation and we are right back... or close enough to it.. that the election is far from easy to call.

I THINK a presidential election with the deity in chief on the ballot will be very different from the Mid Terms. Regardless, I am not criticising Pelosi for bringing in the motion because this isn't about what works in elections. It's about what's beyond the pall. Trump may have been beyond the pall in a moral or ethical way many times so far in his term but this is the first concrete instance where it's now a legal issue. This was not OK and has to stop.

micky wrote: and just why would it be different...  baring the out of left field.. ie Trump should not win... but not the same as saying he can not win. what are midterms in large part? and always been..  yep..  a referendum on the sitting President. no different than 2020 or any Presidential election is... as noted numerous times.. where 2018 differed.. what makes it telling.. predictive.. was the turnout.  Just short of what a normal Presidential election would draw....  so with that in mind...  how would it be different. what was different was .. well.. very obvious.  Republcans have had outsized success in previous midterms because of their..  whatever drives them.. their angst.. hate.. fear.. they do generally get out and vote. Democrats have tended to have been apahetic and not turned out to vote.   good case in point.. again.. noted several times... Virginia. Not a single compitive state wide race.. few compititive for the House. Yet we shattered records for turnout.. why...  Trump as I've said..  if the Democrats show up.. they win.. they have the numbers.. but never before the passion or energy. It always has been the greatest strength of the party.. its diversity and yet its greatest weakness in the  lack of a defining core ideology to unite it. To motivate those to get out and vote. .especially in off year elections. until Trump.  He is what unites Democrats like nothing before except.. *spits beer on monitor* f**king slavery hahah There is no single smarter person or savvy politician in D.C than Nancy Pelosi and she knows this exact boxscore. Why did she hang out as long as she could against impeachment. Trump is hanging himself just fine. Why take the chance of removing him and upsetting the very predictable results of 2020 baring Bernie stealing the nomination or Biden dropping dead a month before the election  Trump is the single best case for the Democrats not just winning.. but winning big in 2020.  As any observeer has noted..  forget teh Republican turnout.. they can turnout out all their votes.. but if the Democrats turn out in force.. they win. Simple pure numbers.. especially as the middle.. moderate Repubicans have become near extinct and have either moved into the Democratic camp... or waste votes on 3rd party.

Why a presidential reelection would be different is because a mid term loss does not change the president but a loss in a presidential election would. This wouldn't even be the first time. Obama and Clinton shrugged off mid term losses to get reelected. There is just less at stake for the incumbent in a mid term poll. And in the same vein, Dems opposing Kavanaugh doesn't affect Trump in the same way as them trying to impeach him would. Now much will depend on what actually comes out in the impeachment hearings but given that Republican supporters didn't see anything wrong with his "I hereby order" decree to American companies in China, I don't know that this will move the needle either. When Ailes was alive, he said on record somewhere in the late noughties that he didn't think Nixon was a bad man. That is the depth of their commitment to the GOP. It won't be easy to shake off.

Atavachron wrote: ^ I'd agree Nixon wasn't a bad man.   He was a twisted, incompetent, bizarre, treacherous, ignorant, bumbling, creepy, dangerous buffoon.   But he wasn't bad.

micky wrote: really interesting historical article today on impeachment and the history of it in this country...  2 completely political and baseless on constitutional grounds and both failed..  1 completely on point and the President was removed.. http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/09/28/trump-impeachment-nixon-clinton-johnson-228754 interesting to see how Trump may play out..  will the fact that there are upwards of 10 potential RepublicanSenate seats at risk in 2020 factor in to teh political calculus.. and perhaps breaking that 'disciplined tribalism of ferocity' that is the Repubican Party today.  All for a President likely gone in a year. .and with it most likely .. control of the Senate. I'd have to give it nearly even odds that Trump does not survive this...and the Senate does cut it's losses and toss off Trump to try to save the party..   unlike Mueller and the whole Russia thing..  this is a very simple case to be made..  Trump's own words.. and already the polls are seeing a large shift toward impeachment.

And I heard he said, ask the Vice President about these conversations. I THINK they would be wise to ditch him now and run before he ensnares more of them. But it still feels rather overoptimistic to expect the Republican Party to exhibit wisdom. When Trump said I hereby order companies to leave China, I thought the GOP will panic now and instead they spoke out in support of his tweet!

I keep hearing ♪♪♪ We have all been here before, we have all been here before... ♪♪♪

AFlowerKingCrimson wrote: Nixon not bad? If lying about hiring people to break into the opposing political party's headquarters and then trying to cover it up doesn't constitute bad then I don't know what does. To me that's the text book definition of not only bad but above the law. So, if Trump is bad then Nixon was too and vice versa. I won't say they were(or are)equally bad but bad is bad. If you have some apples in your bucket that are more rotten than the others then who cares. The rotten ones are still rotten regardless of the degree.

I didn't say I think Nixon was bad. I was quoting Ailes as saying so. And Nixon started this business of blaming everything on a deep state conspiracy so it fits. When I was watching Stephen Miller obfuscate as Chris Wallace threw tough question after tough question at him and blaming unelected deep state operatives for not investigating Biden, it was textbook Nixon.

That brings me to one thing I find very puzzling from the ultra progressive side. Particularly Krystal Ball at The Hill is going on and on about why impeaching him now looks bad because after all, any act of corruption should be investigated. Sure but there is a difference between investigating and extorting a foreign head of state. If the means don't matter at all, then I am sure Nixon could have justified the break in as being in national interest. I don't get where the people who are trying to separate Watergate from this (with the implication that the latter is benign and not even wrong) are coming from. They are both bad in different ways. Unless the people who are defending this don't mind America turning into a banana republic.