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The best albums ELP never made

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Poll Question: ..but wish they had?!
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
9 [21.43%]
5 [11.90%]
10 [23.81%]
4 [9.52%]
1 [2.38%]
0 [0.00%]
6 [14.29%]
3 [7.14%]
0 [0.00%]
3 [7.14%]
1 [2.38%]
0 [0.00%]
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kenethlevine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2019 at 12:17
Originally posted by Barbu Barbu wrote:

I just gave a listen to Contappunti and it's quite surprising that you couldn't get into it, Ken. The first track sounds heavily like ELP (not as much as Papillon par contre haha) but the rest is classic Orme sounding to these ears. but to each his own, of course...a solid four for me.

well, I'll give it another try!
now, cmon, Smogmagica is worth another try by you, since just the title alone is brilliant Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barbu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2019 at 12:26
^ I will. My problem with it is it's inconsistency. 2 or 3 very good tracks, 2 or 3 very average and a couple of awful ones...and using the skip button every 2 tracks is never a good sign.

Frutto Acerbo, maaan!

Edited by Barbu - September 18 2019 at 12:29
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2019 at 12:30
Originally posted by Barbu Barbu wrote:

^ I will. My problem with it is it's inconsistency. 2 or 3 very good tracks, 2 or 3 very average and a couple of awful ones...and using the skip button every 2 tracks is never a good sign.

Frutto Acerbo, maaan!

yes Frutto is awesome
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HarryAngel746 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2019 at 12:42
Hmm for me the title "The best album ELP never made" goes to CHIMERA from 1974 by DUNCAN MACKAY.
This is a very rich, intensive album full of keyboard virtuosity and dynamic drums.
There are countless types of keyboards they used, which brings to mind the splendor of Karn Evil.

And of those mentioned it's definitely Trace. Rick van der Linden does amazing things on it - in the spirit of Bach (and so Emerson). Album from 1974 is also great - if not even better.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2019 at 12:52
My favorites off the list are Refugee and Illusions.

Not off the list:
Skaldowie - Krywań Krywań (1972)
Tritonus - S/T (1975)
Welcome - S/T (1976).

Edited by Hrychu - September 18 2019 at 12:53
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barbu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2019 at 13:50
Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

now, cmon, Smogmagica is worth another try by you, since just the title alone is brilliant Big smile

Okay...a new approach and it must have been quite a shock and a huge disappointment for the fans when they heard it back in 75. It could have worked but sadly the material here is not strong enough, for completists only. The next one will be more satisfying and they will return even stronger with 'Storia O Leggenda'. At least they tried something new and I must give them credit for that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2019 at 14:24
Originally posted by HarryAngel746 HarryAngel746 wrote:

Hmm for me the title "The best album ELP never made" goes to CHIMERA from 1974 by DUNCAN MACKAY.
This is a very rich, intensive album full of keyboard virtuosity and dynamic drums.
There are countless types of keyboards they used, which brings to mind the splendor of Karn Evil.

And of those mentioned it's definitely Trace. Rick van der Linden does amazing things on it - in the spirit of Bach (and so Emerson). Album from 1974 is also great - if not even better.
 

Great to see Mackay's Chimera and Trace mentioned. I prefer Trace's Birds (second album). Rick van der Linden is no Keith wannabe, either. They're equals.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2019 at 14:30
For the "best album ELP never made," there would have to be a strong vocalist and great SONGS, dynamic and powerful drumming, and the requisite monster keyboard talent.

From this poll, the obvious answer for me is Danger Money. U.K. certainly stepped up to fill the void left by ELP after the latter hung their collective hats with Love Beach.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HarryAngel746 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2019 at 14:54
Of course Rick van der Linden also had his own style. Moreover sometimes he used funky clavinet (like in Commodores "Machine Gun") which added even more diversity. I like it very much.

Edited by HarryAngel746 - September 18 2019 at 14:55
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Neu!mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2019 at 16:41
"Hello! I'd like a Double Dimple..!"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2019 at 18:16
Originally posted by Neu!mann Neu!mann wrote:

"Hello! I'd like a Double Dimple..!"

:D 

Great album. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2019 at 00:06
Great comments and interesting to see Triumvirate leading the race although maybe not surprising as its such a complete and well thought out album. Near perfect. I should have included Triade in the list but as I mentioned I can easily forget stuff nowadays. I did think of Par Lindh as he is a massive ELP fan but the only album of his that feels like a 'lost ELP album' is Time Mirror and that is a bit weak compared to his mighty other efforts. This only came about because Magda Berg had sadly left the world so he decided that the time (no pun intended) was right for it. Mastermind - yep I have the debut album and it does have some obvious ELP references but not enough for inclusion imo. Good album though. I never checked out anything else by them though and I'm guessing their CD's are probably deleted and very rare.

I need to check out the 'other' suggestions . Thanks. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2019 at 02:49
Another very good keyboarder who was heavily influenced by Emerson was Thomas Kurzhals of the eastern German Stern Meissen. Best appreciated on "Die Reise zum Mittelpunkt des Menschen" (good luck digging that one out these days... I bought it as LP on a trip to eastern German Rostock when it was still properly communist). 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote b_olariu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2019 at 04:10
From the list, Danger Money - UK - to me an excellent album
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2019 at 07:25
Originally posted by Barbu Barbu wrote:

^ You clearly haven't heard Smogmagica.

Contra is pretty solid imo and Smog is definitely their weakest.

I disagree. I like all their early stuff, and while SMOGMAGICA is different, first time with an electric guitar on it, not quite used as a lead, but adding something else to the band ... and the album has a lot of nice, and FUN things in it. It's a shame that we have to think that ... it's not a prog album, so we can consider it less than the other albums.

For me, LE ORME did not slide down for at least 3 or 4 more albums!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2019 at 07:53
Hi,

This is, for me, a strange topic ... I never thought that Keith set out to be outlandish with his music, but at the time, aside from things like Procol Harum, there were no bands that really stood out for having keyboards at the front, and I think that Keith probably thought something like ... I'LL WAKE THEM UP! Heck, all you had to do was see a Moody Blues concert, so you could fall asleep in the first 20 minutes!

Many of these, were all classically trained, and their concentration within the bands they were in, was the MUSIC, not the SOUND, and I think that sometimes we confuse the two. And some of them are quite clearly classical sounding in their work and approach, which, ELP WAS NOT .... which is the marked difference between them and most others ... including Triumvirat, that was very well written, and put together with a lot of attention to the detail of the work to make it better, and not have someone say that they were an ELP cover ... which I do not think they were.

At the time, when MANTICORE released two of their first albums, PFM and BANCO, the first things we heard was ... they don't even sound like ELP, and they did not have to ... they were well defined and put together bands already, and Manticore/Elp did not have anything to add to their work, or more than likely Keith thought it would be a shame to interfere with the incredible work they had already done!

I just think that the "keyboard" madness died down a lot by 1975 or so, specially when bands like PF made it really big, and all of a sudden the sound of a set of instruments aside from the rest of the band, just was not as cool, and agreeable to most listeners as it had been before when we took keyboards for granted, even though saying that some keyboard players were not musically educated ... you gotta be kidding me, right? How about Manfred Mann ... just another idiot with keyboards? I don't think so, but for a long period his keyboards dominated the sound, until that whole thing faded some.

It is my thought, however, that the development of the synthesizers into a much more extensive and usable keyboard, than previously, made a heck of a difference and all of a sudden you could do a lot more than you did before ... and by the time TD had developed SEQUENCERS to an art form, popular music was about to take a turn, and this may have been one of the things that bothered ELP some ... if they had been about the brashness of the sound, all of a sudden ... what are they gonna do? And I'm not sure it materialized at all ... and Kaith, even though wrote a lot of classically oriented material privately, some of which we never saw until way later, which in my estimation would have given ELP a much needed infusion of music and ability to play it.

I don't consider, any of these folks listed, a "copy" ... I just find it strange that we think that any of these could/would have been ELP ... I would rather they had played one of Keith's Piano Concerto's or the many pieces that he was sitting on, and probably killed himself over them ... no one wanted to hear them ... and it took someone like Rachel Flowers many years later, to show us ... however, we only think of Keith as a rock player and not a composer ... so, sadly, all that is left is thinking of the stuff that we think Keith could have done (or ELP) that did not get done, but someone else did.

Keith is one of the great composers of the 20th century ... it just so happens that he was in the rock area of things ... and many of the others would have loved to have that ability, but I don't see many of them extending it. Almost exclusively, they all stuck to songs and music that has a very limited appeal compared to classical works. Keith's ELP stuff is very strong, within the classical element, and specially within a compositional element ... that means that at least one other in that list should get more credit for it (Triumvirat's the story of which is well known of the fights with the record company about the music!), than some of the rest in my book.


Edited by moshkito - September 19 2019 at 07:54
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2019 at 07:55
Another keyboardist quite influenced by Keith is Erik Norlander. He also uses a big modular Moog in his concerts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2019 at 08:03
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

Another keyboardist quite influenced by Keith is Erik Norlander. He also uses a big modular Moog in his concerts.

Agreed ... and he is a good enough player to know when to jump out and when not to, but even on stage, he is not the show off player, and he told me (1999 SF Progressive Music Festival) that he would prefer that the music they put together be remembered, which in my estimation the band LANA LANE AND THE ROCKET SCIENTISTS, put on, one of the most professional, clean and well done sets I have ever seen on a stage, compared to a couple of other bands that went on like they were some godsend to the music!

Erik's work is excellent, but in concert, he's not about being a showman ... he's about the band standing out and doing a great job with the music. And they did on that night and then some! Shamefully, one of the comments I got was ... it has a bit too much metal in it!

That just says that someone wanted to hear only one thing ... and their thinking was not even progressive at that! The only other band in the two day affair that came close to their professionalism and quality? MAGMA ... plain and simple!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barbu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2019 at 08:49
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

It's a shame that we have to think that ... it's not a prog album, so we can consider it less than the other albums.

Not at all...I consider it less because it's their weakest album (Collage to Florian). Nothing below seven out of ten from them in the 70s except for that poor LA smog..4/10 max.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote miamiscot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2019 at 08:50
Contrappunti is Le Orme's best album.

There. I said it.
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