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Top 5 underrated prog bassists |
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jamesbaldwin 
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: September 25 2015 Location: Milano Status: Offline Points: 5985 |
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 Posted: July 14 2019 at 04:46 |
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John Gustafson, Quatermass and Roxy Music.
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Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion.
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17497 |
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Posted: July 14 2019 at 07:41 |
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Ohhh, I have a few basses hanging around. But my playing was never taken to a "professional" level, because the majority of folks I was around with, not only did not know music, they could never LISTEN TO ANY OF IT, and were only interested in a riff and thinking that 5 notes on top of a riff made a song! Gary Green, of GG has said that they never wrote anything ... they just played! And that SHOWS ... what at the time would be considered "anti-music", just like there was stuff around then called "anti-movie" and other artistic endeavors trying hard to get off the track of copycopycopycopydifferentnotecopycopycopy ... thing! It tells you that a lot of the things they did were right out in the open in their early days ... but we're so RIFF oriented and defined, that we can not consider someone free forming their way any more ... and the early history of PROGRESSIVE MUSIC is simply full of that experience and experiment ... but heck, did you check "krautrock" lately? It wasn't only music ... but theater, film, literature ... and other disciplines ... but how would anyone know that if all you look for is just another riff? All in all, music has been my life for all of my 69 years, from my parents collection of classical music (over 2500 LP's), all the way to my collection at one time (3K LP's -- now 1500 LP's and 1500 CD's). I am very well versed in music of 100 to 1000 different kinds, not just 3 styles and sounds that define some "progressive" folks here, which is the least PROGRESSIVE idea of any. Your question, makes it sound like I don't know what I am saying or feeling. Maybe you ought to listen to some musicians ... like Mani saying he doesn't play rhythm or a bass guy ... he's playing with the lead guitar! Or the best one, in a private conversation ... was Pierre Moerlin in Portland ... I couldn' t give a damn about what all the others were doing! He didn't mean to sound bad, but it told you that what he was asked to do was boring and just kid's homework, compared to what he really wanted to do to the music to make it better! If only we stop thinking that "rhythm" ... and "pop musak" is what music is all about ... the lack of respect for classical music and its history here, is ridiculous, and completely out of line!
Edited by moshkito - July 14 2019 at 07:46 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17497 |
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Posted: July 14 2019 at 07:42 |
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Loved that Quatermass album ... and I can play that stuff, too, on my bass ... really great album, and one that was copied by a more famous person in another band, that took that same song ... and destroyed it!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Quinino
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 26 2011 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 3654 |
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Posted: July 14 2019 at 16:11 |
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I like Hugh Hopper.
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jamesbaldwin
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 25 2015 Location: Milano Status: Offline Points: 5985 |
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Posted: July 14 2019 at 17:29 |
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Who?
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Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion.
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Frenetic Zetetic
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 09 2017 Location: Now Status: Offline Points: 9233 |
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Posted: July 15 2019 at 02:37 |
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Because no offense, as someone that made a living as a bass player for several years, your posts reek of arm-chair-observation-as fact. The way you attempt to cleverly use vernacular to disguise your lack of genuine experience on topics - whilst simultaneously attempting to come off as an expert - is extremely obvious to me. Then, on top of that, having the gall to tell me to "listen to more music" before even hearing my reply? I'm very aware that this is outside the scope of this thread but as a frequent poster I'm saying it anyway: You are undoubtedly, far and away one of the single-most pretentious, haughty, arrogant posters on this forum community on a consistent basis. You have every single right in the world to your opinion. I will never argue that point. However: You're attempting to argue a position of authority on bass playing based on the number of "records you've listened to", as if that's any objective standard measure of anything outside of your opinion. "Listening" to thousands of records isn't the same thing as playing a bass on stage in front of people night after night after night after night, nor being in a recording situation, and adapting to what the big picture needs as a whole. Normally this wouldn't bother me but your attitude on this topic oversteps its bounds as an authority way, way too much when it's obvious that you're comparing apples to oranges, then insisting your resulting fruit salad is the objective standard for quality bass playing. I even gave you a chance at gaining some ground by asking if you have experience with other musicians (thus giving your claims a little credibility), and you still proved me right: So you play(ed)? Cool. Oh, other people couldn't get with it though, right? Of course it was "other people" who "didn't get" the music that only your incredibly talented brain (which you spend so much time here defending in your wall of text posts...like, every time you post) can comprehend! Plebs! Don't they know diatonic scales are so pre-school level? I bet they like tones that sound good together and create melody, too! Amateurs! Then, you do the same exact thing insisting other PA users "only like 3 styles of prog" and "thus aren't really progressive" because you like 100's and 1000's more styles than they do! If only they could keep up with your arbitrary standards of eclectic, refined quality! Oh, how the world would be such a magical, perfect place for all! Were you a college professor at one point? I get serious liberal arts vibes from you every single time you post. Or perhaps a disgruntled ex-Philosophy professor. Either way, your posts read like you write them from a throne composed of "bad" essays written by students who don't agree with you on what constitutes a sound wave. ...And God forbid people like riffs! We can't have that! Prog rock only borrows some of it sound from rock and roll which GASP is riff based! Those heathens! Knowing what they like (in your wardrobe, of all places)! How dare they?! Everyone sucks because they don't appreciate classical to the degree you do though, right? So the above is only logical from your perspective. It doesn't sound like you know what you're talking about besides reinforcing your own opinion as fact, and poorly so IMHO. In fact, that seems to be your entire posting MO here on PA. I say this because of how much you endlessly pontificate in the majority of your posts, waxing and waning pretentious rhetoric as fact over several paragraphs of information (like a rejected TIME magazine article from 1973 attempting to remain artsy and relevant through use of language regarding prog rock) instead of condensing it down into two or three for average human beings to read, understand, and feel like debating with you. I've seen several other posters give me a "he does that here" type "look" in several threads with you. You appear to do that a lot on this forum; haughty derision and pretentious articulation of a concept - a pattern of sound - then insisting "riffs" are sh*t...on a progressive rock website...because not enough classical in the stew you happen to be sipping from...LOL. Get over yourself, ESPECIALLY if you're truly a 69+ year old adult interacting with people most likely half your age on the internet. Either that or you're genuinely bipolar/schizo, in which case everything makes a lot of sense and I don't hold anything against you.
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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
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Icarium
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: March 21 2008 Location: Tigerstaden Status: Offline Points: 34055 |
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Posted: July 15 2019 at 03:36 |
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Greame Murray of Pallas fame is onebofbmy favourite Rickenbacher wielders, hes toneband creativety does bot get enough priase on PA or other places. I also like the bass player in Journey, but also Dougi Thompson in Supertramp is seriously overlooked bass player
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Icarium
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: March 21 2008 Location: Tigerstaden Status: Offline Points: 34055 |
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Posted: July 15 2019 at 03:36 |
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Mascodagama
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 5111 |
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Posted: July 15 2019 at 05:46 |
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He's been playing with a group Spirit Fingers (founded by keyboardist Greg Spero) who had a s/t album out last year. Great chops-heavy fusion, worth checking out. |
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Soldato of the Pan Head Mafia. We'll make you an offer you can't listen to.
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17497 |
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Posted: July 15 2019 at 06:47 |
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He's also in the Richard Sinclair album (Caravan of Dreams) and it makes it spectacular
shame that few folks here will ever listen to it, because they have to have their "prog" fix first!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17497 |
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Posted: July 15 2019 at 07:10 |
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AND, of course, it takes one to know one, right? My notes and ideas have come, largely from theater, film and the spoken arts. Almost all musicians, only met one that didn't fit the idea, are 100% afraid of experimentation, and specially exercises that can lead to experimentation that would help create something new
and this was, for a long time, the thrust of the ECM label, that got so many folks comfortable with each other
you lock them up in a white room and leave them alone
maybe with some coffee
rotgut for you probably! Nowadays, a description of an exercise that works wonders with actors
is not, SUPPOSEDLY, any good for a musician
easy to see why
you (likely) can not play beyond the notes and chords that you are familiar with
and
what chord is that in that the guitarist is doing, kind of thing, when so much of the music in the 60's, including jazz was almost about being opposite that as far as possible
but today, we're all supposed to be conformists, just the way you wrote them! I'm probably the quietest and humblest person you ever could meet for a cup of tea
but I know what I SEE, and I know what I have experienced in my life with actors, on stage and with some musicians, and I study the history of a lot of music
not just your notes and chords
there are vastly different schools out there that do not follow the "notes and chords" concept that easy
witness the Berlin School that gave rise to so much of the synthesizer folks and music
you probably have no idea how many folks said it wasn't music, up to a reviewer calling TD "washing machine music"
and if you are so stuck up as to not even know the difference between a washing machine and music (well --- it does have music that can be used in krautrock, you know?)
then you are an idiot and are allowing another idiot to rant stupidly. I'm merely defending the "experimentalists", because too many musicians dismiss them and think they are stupid because it all has to have notes and chords! You don't like that, because you have no "control", and would have a hard time defining what to play next! You want it easy as pie
challenging you is not possible
you have gotten lazy in your older days!
I never claimed to be an expert on anything
and your comment is a perfect example, of how you don't like folks to challenge your status quo! My experience, is not limited to having listens
but almost all your professors learned music the same way
but they know "more" than you do, of course! My experience is related to something that you could not understand
and think that your stage experience is all there is to life
stage experience is the same, be it film, theater or music
the discipline is needed to help make it better
the real issue is that rock and jazz music, do not .. make use of a "director" to help formulate the music, and musicians are in love with the easy stuff they can get stuck on. Have you heard the last 10 pieces of music to find the same drum beat and style? That's listening to you, not just counting! My status quo is "OPEN" and has been from day one, otherwise things like this and that and THIRD EAR BAND and other odd balls, would never make it to my ears
just an odd example, since no one listens to it, anyway! My favorite moment in "listening", believe it or not, was in 1972 when my roommate played me something that made me sick, and I had to go to the bathroom
and when I came back, he said
sit down
let's try this again
and it was fine. Since that day, there has never been a single piece of music that has undone me
or surprised me
and I had a very large collection of all the old electronic stuff that came from movies, all the way back to FORBIDDEN PLANET. That piece of music was TD's Mysterious Semblance at the Strand of Nightmares!
You are sooooooo out of line
you have no idea
it has nothing to do with the "riff" and what it sounds like
has to do with folks thinking that one riff makes a song
and nothing else
the next time you mis-represent your comments, kindly take them to the cleaners first
you are not reading a single word of what I have written
that's OK
I'm a writer anyway
you have no idea what that means, I don't think! And how much music people know and study. One riff does not define Mozart or Beethoven
so now, in the 21st century all music has to have a riff so we know that Stravinsky was wrong in not having any riffs in his music! I think your "logic" needs some studying! |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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chopper
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 13 2005 Location: Essex, UK Status: Offline Points: 20029 |
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Posted: July 15 2019 at 09:04 |
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What does that mean?
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progmatic
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Joined: August 22 2009 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 1785 |
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Posted: July 15 2019 at 09:09 |
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I forgot Danny Thompson. Love his playing on standup bass.
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PROGMATIC
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chopper
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 13 2005 Location: Essex, UK Status: Offline Points: 20029 |
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Posted: July 15 2019 at 09:25 |
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I don't really think he can be classified as "underrated".
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BrufordFreak
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Honorary Collaborator Joined: January 25 2008 Location: Wisconsin Status: Offline Points: 8189 |
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Posted: July 15 2019 at 13:31 |
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Percy, always Percy.
Among those who crashed and burned in their youth I am always blown away when I hear the contributions of Doug Rauch (Santana et al.) Danny Thompson and Victoria are in a league all their own. I love Moshkito's suggestion of David Darling. Nicky Beggs is astonishing; I love when a bass can lead or establish and hold the melody. Of the modern prog bassists I have to admit to being quite fond of the work Antoine Fafard has been doing.
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Drew Fisher
https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17497 |
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Posted: July 17 2019 at 08:05 |
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Chopper ... I forgot the emoticons ... it was a joke that all that stuff couldn't possibly be "progressive". The album is far out ... and really neat, and if you are doing a radio type show, there are many songs that can be played ... really nice album!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17497 |
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Posted: July 17 2019 at 08:13 |
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I don't know what it is ... and I got a couple of his solo albums, and they are also rather nice and tasteful, and I have yet to find something of his that is "conventional" that does not stand up above everyone else.
He is excellent, and is probably the main reason why the Steven Wilson tour went so well ... I doubt that any other conventional bass player would have added to much to Steven's ideas, who has become well known for his megalomania ... and thinking that he is the musician and everyone else plays for him! It's amazing that he has learned the Stick and its use so well, and added a touch to SW's work that was not there before, not that Colin did not have that touch ... he had a very different touch for PT ... but it was not exactly a "new touch" as much as it was a well defined moment to make the song or piece of music even better. In the special on the tube, Nick explains to SW ... let me do this, and if you don't like it we can go back to the other way ... and based on what we heard in concert and on the album, it was obvious that Nick could color SW's music even more ... and some credit should be given to SW at that moment for realizing how good someone can be ... you gotta let them add to what you have, sometimes ... and helps define your work even better ... because you know that person "is there!".
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Icarium
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: March 21 2008 Location: Tigerstaden Status: Offline Points: 34055 |
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Posted: July 17 2019 at 10:02 |
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Colin Henry of Porcupine Tree does also seem to lack some prise, hes playing is cool and hes tone is solid as concrete.
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verslibre
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Joined: July 01 2004 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 17068 |
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Posted: July 17 2019 at 14:53 |
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Anyone mention Mick Karn yet? |
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Hrychu
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Joined: November 03 2013 Location: poland? Status: Offline Points: 5353 |
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Posted: July 18 2019 at 05:34 |
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I'm not a fan of the term "underrated" and top something lists (because for me the order and contents change every day) of any kind but to me Jσzef Skrzek's bass playing deserves more recognition. He's mostly associated with keys but that guy was also a ripping bass player.
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On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.
Ernest Vong |
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Frenetic Zetetic wrote: