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IVNORD 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2006
Location: USA
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Points: 1191
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 Posted: February 08 2019 at 12:15 |
 Atavachron wrote:
Greg, I am someone who feels anger is quite healthy and normal, and I will aggressively be myself as I always have been. Now, my mother passed away yesterday and perhaps that is impacting my conduct, but frankly I don't think so. I am a fighter and a real bast*rd, and an unlikely to take a voluntary break from this godforsaken, wonderful place.
Do what you need to do.
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I am sorry about your mother. And I apologize for hurting you yesterday.
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micky
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Joined: October 02 2005
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Points: 46838
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Posted: February 08 2019 at 12:23 |
Easy Money wrote:
Right now 1/3 of Republicans want a better candidate for 2020. After two more years of bumbling ineptitude that number could get closer to %50.
I have several Republican friends who can't stand the guy. The line seems to be drawn at education, trump doesn't doesn't fare well with college graduates. |
yeah but as that article I posted some months ago notes... that is among those that identify themselves as Republicans. The problem that party has.. well hahahha.. among many.. is the ranks of those that identify themselves as Republicans has been declining for years.. and especially accelerated under Trump... and most problematic especially among women and the educated. I posted the stats in the aftermath of the 2016 election. 8 of the top 10 educated (as well as affluent for they were pretty much one in the same) all went heavily for Clinton..and it got even worse in the 2018 midterms... is that going to suddently going to improve under Trump? hah.. hardly considering how his numbers went under water thanks to the shutdown.
1/3? That still leaves 2/3'rs.. again... perhaps bloody but the result will not be in doubt. The social and culture warriors on the right have taken over the party. Trump didn't create them and they don't go away after he does. However what happens to those other 1/3 when they realize the Republican Party outside of social/culture war issues has no appeal to anyone other than big money rich donor class after yet another attempt at smoke and mirror trickle down/supply side/voodoo economics has failed. Failed in it merely made the very rich richer and still f**ked the f**king man up the ass with a gold plated rod.
some may find a home in the democratic party.. some may not.. but they won't have to wait long to find a new home for we are already seeing signs that the democratic party will soon have it's left behinds.. the socially liberal but still holding to the belief that it is big business corporate welfare ( I mean incentive and tax breaks/lack of taxes) is what makes our economy great.. and f**k the guy actually producing and making them the money. I may not live to see it John but if you do.. remember me fondly.. the Republican Party will cease to exist within a couple of decades and taking it's place.. a centrist party composed of disposed moderates from both parties. Trump voter and what they stand for is dead man walking.. the country is changing and there is nothing they can do about it and they and that party will be reduced to fringe 3rd party, regional status in the deep south and parts of the midwest bible belt. The rest of the country? They are and will ontinue to evolve past 19th century thinking about race and identity.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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micky
Special Collaborator
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Joined: October 02 2005
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Points: 46838
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Posted: February 08 2019 at 12:52 |
Snicolette wrote:
I would like to add that in general, this is a very congenial politics thread and has had a lot of thoughtful points and counterpoints of view. Pretty much an anomaly! |
amen to that sista... though in all fairness.. this site is fairly progressive in its overall leanings. Yes I agree there are a lot of thoughtful points and some occasional counterpoint. That counterpoint often comes from the centrist point of view, thinking in particular to Scotty, as opposed to more firebrandish leftist thought. We have had a few Trumpist blow through here but as one might suspect, they really don't have much of a leg to stand on debate wise and are politely dealt with or shown to be the crackpots they often are.
I mean seriously...how to really defend racism/bigotry/white nativism on a systematic scale, One could understand a working class Trump voter on economic views, and we got some post 2016 election but where are they now when the only thing he has accomplished in 2 plus years is a massive tax cut to the very rich and a trade war which makes their precarious economic lives even MORE precarious.
thus you often on other forums get the whataboutsim which is page 1 on the internet Trump supporter internet survival playbook as it is damn hard to really defend white identify politics and not come across as a f**king racist.. well because it IS haha. Thankfully we see little of that here. Not sure if the members here are more educated or enlightened than other forums. Perhaps prog fan and his eltiism here in this case is at least is semi warranted.. they are smarter and educated than the average sh*t head out there. However make no mistake. the leanings of the conversations here do slant left of center without much of substance from the other side.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
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Points: 10676
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Posted: February 08 2019 at 13:01 |
IVNORD wrote:
Easy Money wrote:
He is obviously too afraid to reveal his true feelings about trump.
Sad.
America will never be great with this tradition of 'bone spur draft dodging', 'no taxes paid to support our veterans' rip off con artist coward fake president.
Sad. |
You've succeeded in your late night spin after all, Spin Master... he-he.... everybody got excited about my view of Trump. 
Here. Funny that it was my answer to Avatcorn yet he wanted to hear it again... Enjoy.
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=110190&KW=Trump&PID=5621340#5621340 |
You should learn how to make your links clickable, its not that difficult, even for a trump supporter.
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IVNORD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2006
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1191
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Posted: February 08 2019 at 13:07 |
Easy Money wrote:
You should learn how to make your links clickable, its not that difficult, even for a trump supporter. |
You're at it again, Spin Master. Never discuss the subject. Especially when you lose.
Why don't you guide me thru the process of making my links clickable? I would really appreciate that
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10676
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Posted: February 08 2019 at 13:10 |
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No, I don't want to help you, sorry.
Now, what would you say has been trump's greatest accomplishment since becoming president?
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Snicolette
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 02 2018
Location: OR
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Points: 6048
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Posted: February 08 2019 at 13:15 |
micky wrote:
Snicolette wrote:
I would like to add that in general, this is a very congenial politics thread and has had a lot of thoughtful points and counterpoints of view. Pretty much an anomaly! |
amen to that sista... though in all fairness.. this site is fairly progressive in its overall leanings. Yes I agree there are a lot of thoughtful points and some occasional counterpoint. That counterpoint often comes from the centrist point of view, thinking in particular to Scotty, as opposed to more firebrandish leftist thought. We have had a few Trumpist blow through here but as one might suspect, they really don't have much of a leg to stand on debate wise and are politely dealt with or shown to be the crackpots they often are.
I mean seriously...how to really defend racism/bigotry/white nativism on a systematic scale, One could understand a working class Trump voter on economic views, and we got some post 2016 election but where are they now when the only thing he has accomplished in 2 plus years is a massive tax cut to the very rich and a trade war which makes their precarious economic lives even MORE precarious.
thus you often on other forums get the whataboutsim which is page 1 on the internet Trump supporter internet survival playbook as it is damn hard to really defend white identify politics and not come across as a f**king racist.. well because it IS haha. Thankfully we see little of that here. Not sure if the members here are more educated or enlightened than other forums. Perhaps prog fan and his eltiism here in this case is at least is semi warranted.. they are smarter and educated than the average sh*t head out there. However make no mistake. the leanings of the conversations here do slant left of center without much of substance from the other side. |
You're no doubt correct...but at least when a differing opinion comes along, it is less likely to fall into rabid territory....Not always, however.
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"Into every rain, a little life must fall." ~Tom Rapp
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micky
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Posted: February 08 2019 at 13:23 |
thankfully John is around to deal with them. And David when some real hot tough guy threats are in order hahah...
me? If anyone would get mean and nasty it would be me I suppose. My bullsh*t and ignorance filter is a mighty thin one and have enough hand to hand knife fights on this site to know my bite is worse than my bark when really riled up even if newer members might not know my history here. So I don't bother... I've already lost one longtime friend in these pages for saying what I think. I just like to parse out what is going on and what I think of it and if Trump voter wants to live with their hands in the sand.. let them for the one true maxim of internet political discussions.. no one is going to see the light on either side.. debate is fun when you can find it on both sides but in reality it is rare and often just mental masturbation and just lost to the ether. It connects with the like minded.. and fall upon deaf ears to those that need to hear it the most haha
Edited by micky - February 08 2019 at 13:24
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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IVNORD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2006
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1191
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Posted: February 08 2019 at 14:08 |
Easy Money wrote:
No, I don't want to help you, sorry.
Now, what would you say has been trump's greatest accomplishment since becoming president? |
You're ungrateful.... I spent so much time trying to teach how to use the search function, and you..... 
Trump's greatest accomplishment so far was his landing a job in the White House, and even that was an accident. If not for Hillary he would be still bullsh*tting on Fox news promising to produce Obama's birth certificate in a couple of days as he did back in 2012. For a while I thought he would win the North Korea deal when he threatened with air carriers deployment . But no, it was his usual bluff. He did not achieve anything as I've always expected. His arrogant self assured ways are good in his casino business but not in the US congress. His tax reform got thru only because the Reps like it and when it fails they will make Trump the culprit. No Obamacare repeal, no immigration reform, no nothing. But he'll do no harm either, they won't let him. So by default he will be the best president for the past 25 years.  As funny as it is...
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
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Joined: August 11 2007
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Posted: February 08 2019 at 14:59 |
^ I actually like the bi-partisan criminal justice bill he encouraged, and the media has totally ignored some bi-partisan bills for veterans. I can't stand the guy on a personal level, but some good has come from it, and I really had a hard time imagining Hillary as president. The more I saw of her, the less I liked. I voted 3rd party. By the way, sorry I was rude, I can usually argue without going in that direction, but my crazy neighbor did a blind side verbal attack on me yesterday and I was extremely pissed about that. I didn't need to bring that here. I live in a very conservative voting district just outside Memphis and lots of people who I know and like are trump fans, I think he is a straight up con artist, but I never bother anyone about it. Because of friends and family I get lots of pro-trump propaganda on my facebook feed.
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Man With Hat
Collaborator
Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team
Joined: March 12 2005
Location: Neurotica
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Points: 166183
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Posted: February 08 2019 at 19:49 |
Atavachron wrote:
Greg, I am someone who feels anger is quite healthy and normal, and I will aggressively be myself as I always have been. Now, my mother passed away yesterday and perhaps that is impacting my conduct, but frankly I don't think so. I am a fighter and a real bast*rd, and an unlikely to take a voluntary break from this godforsaken, wonderful place.
Do what you need to do.
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Much love, pearman! <3
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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
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Man With Hat
Collaborator
Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team
Joined: March 12 2005
Location: Neurotica
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Points: 166183
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Posted: February 08 2019 at 19:53 |
npjnpj wrote:
If you actually do look back, I think you'll find that apart from the occasional slip-up, this has always been a civil thread and has lead to some interesting discussions.
Sorry to hear about your mother, Atavachron.
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It really is. I've been around here since 05 (oh god how) and a lurker in most of the political/religion threads and can count on one hand the number of times things have gone overboard. Even people that seem horrendously misinformed are generally well natured and can expound upon their ideas/thoughts/opinions in a way that is civilized and intelligible.
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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
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siLLy puPPy
Special Collaborator
PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic
Joined: October 05 2013
Location: SFcaUsA
Status: Offline
Points: 15338
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Posted: February 08 2019 at 19:56 |
Man With Hat wrote:
Atavachron wrote:
Greg, I am someone who feels anger is quite healthy and normal, and I will aggressively be myself as I always have been. Now, my mother passed away yesterday and perhaps that is impacting my conduct, but frankly I don't think so. I am a fighter and a real bast*rd, and an unlikely to take a voluntary break from this godforsaken, wonderful place.
Do what you need to do.
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Much love, pearman! <3 |
Yeah, big puppy hugs. So sorry to hear about your loss, Pearman.
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 https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
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Man With Hat
Collaborator
Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team
Joined: March 12 2005
Location: Neurotica
Status: Offline
Points: 166183
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Posted: February 08 2019 at 19:57 |
micky wrote:
surprisingly the real basis of his survival is the support of the black community here in Virginia. They understand he has been a champion of the black community and obviously grew in his actions and attitudes since his 20's. It is funny that most calling for him to resign are white, and his biggest support group for staying are black. It is a funny place to be, yet in a way, a damn good one. It sure as hell beats having whites defend him and blacks want him out. Ie.. good to see that whites recognize that behavior like that is unacceptable.. not in terms of the older set who did this 30 or more years ago.. but the future leaders of tomorrow. If that is what is called progress, and I think it is, I can live with that. |
this is good to know. My main question since this came up is, what has he done for minorities since he has gotten political power. Whatever good is has done in that regard should outweigh this idiotic things he did in college (especially since he wasn't politically active then).
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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
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IVNORD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2006
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1191
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Posted: February 08 2019 at 20:31 |
Easy Money wrote:
^ I actually like the bi-partisan criminal justice bill he encouraged, and the media has totally ignored some bi-partisan bills for veterans.
I can't stand the guy on a personal level, but some good has come from it, and I really had a hard time imagining Hillary as president. The more I saw of her, the less I liked. I voted 3rd party.
By the way, sorry I was rude, I can usually argue without going in that direction, but my crazy neighbor did a blind side verbal attack on me yesterday and I was extremely pissed about that. I didn't need to bring that here.
I live in a very conservative voting district just outside Memphis and lots of people who I know and like are trump fans, I think he is a straight up con artist, but I never bother anyone about it. Because of friends and family I get lots of pro-trump propaganda on my facebook feed. |
You haven't been rude. Anything but.... no apology necessary
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
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Points: 9869
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Posted: February 08 2019 at 20:59 |
Man With Hat wrote:
this is good to know. My main question since this came up is, what has he done for minorities since he has gotten political power. Whatever good is has done in that regard should outweigh this idiotic things he did in college (especially since he wasn't politically active then). |
That's asking for too much from liberal media. Unrelated but are you seeing how they have upbraided Liam Neeson for recounting an incident from many years ago and expressing his disgust with what he felt at the time (that he would have liked to have encountered a black b*****d, said in quotes, and beaten him up to avenge his friend who got raped)? I am intentionally highlighting the part about disgust as that is being conveniently glossed for by the media which is even questioning whether this might affect Neeson's career!!! You see, he shouldn't have used that word even in enacting his disgusting younger self to make a point.
I was telling a friend back home in India that had Gandhi written My Experiments With Truth today, liberals would have been at the head of the queue to eviscerate him and that there would have been no need for Godse to assassinate him. This word policing has gone completely out of control and it's become too easy to label anyone who pushes back as, variously, a MAGA guy/MRA/white supremacist/bigot what have you. Not hard to guess which side liberals will end up pushing them to. Again, is this whole kerfuffle really necessary when seismic geo political developments have unfolded in the US-Russia war? Instead of wasting time with the Virginia governor, Democrats ought to unite and torch the GOP for still standing by Trump. All this noise is fully to Trump's advantage and he may well escape yet again because the Democrats will let him.
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micky
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Posted: February 09 2019 at 06:28 |
rogerthat wrote:
Man With Hat wrote:
this is good to know. My main question since this came up is, what has he done for minorities since he has gotten political power. Whatever good is has done in that regard should outweigh this idiotic things he did in college (especially since he wasn't politically active then). |
That's asking for too much from liberal media. Unrelated but are you seeing how they have upbraided Liam Neeson for recounting an incident from many years ago and expressing his disgust with what he felt at the time (that he would have liked to have encountered a black b*****d, said in quotes, and beaten him up to avenge his friend who got raped)? I am intentionally highlighting the part about disgust as that is being conveniently glossed for by the media which is even questioning whether this might affect Neeson's career!!! You see, he shouldn't have used that word even in enacting his disgusting younger self to make a point.
I was telling a friend back home in India that had Gandhi written My Experiments With Truth today, liberals would have been at the head of the queue to eviscerate him and that there would have been no need for Godse to assassinate him. This word policing has gone completely out of control and it's become too easy to label anyone who pushes back as, variously, a MAGA guy/MRA/white supremacist/bigot what have you. Not hard to guess which side liberals will end up pushing them to. Again, is this whole kerfuffle really necessary when seismic geo political developments have unfolded in the US-Russia war? Instead of wasting time with the Virginia governor, Democrats ought to unite and torch the GOP for still standing by Trump. All this noise is fully to Trump's advantage and he may well escape yet again because the Democrats will let him.
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there really are two very different sides to this
pretty much the whole of the establishment as it were along with the media have not supported him and told him to step down. You have to do that ..goes back to what I alluded to with the white reaction to this. Morally it is hard to condone what he did. Politically for the Democratic Party is it impossible to do. Though they are now really after the Lt. Governor and in that he will have to resign... which is likely going to be the political cover Northam needs. As there is NO.. ZERO.. NADDA chance of surviving multiple credible allegations of sexual abuse.. unless of course you are a SCOTUS nominee and either are too shortsighted or too stupid as the Republicans are to see that alienating women is not a good move hahah.
but there is the second side to this...
where his political survival is coming from is the ground itself... the gen pop as I call it.. which by informal accounts is very divided but much of that breaks on racial lines. As I noted most whites think he should go.. but what is saving him is the black community itself which obviously does and SHOULD have the moral voice on this. To their credit they are able to see past the past mistake and judge him on what his actions have been in years that came. Some might call it a double standard.. I call it a basic reality check. Oh the boo hooing.. 'if he had been a Republican'.. oh yes.. but he is not. One is a party that works to include the black community in it and work to their benefit.. the other works to promote racial division not to mention subtly disenfranchising them. That poltical difference in their actions as elected officials can.. and here it is likely was.. is the difference being being forced out.. and given the benefit of the doubt.
edit.. to expand on that last point...for southerners know that others may not.. race is everything in the south.. and it has and continues to define regional politics and that lingering racial tension is still a part of day to day life unlike other parts of the country.
if you are a southern democrat.. you are for one reason.. it ain't about health care, or big government or this or that policy.. it is because you oppose the old south of the classic Democrat/New Republican Party and support the black community. And much of the same holds on the flip side... that is why white southern trailer trash who don't get any benefit economically from Republicans still support them.. it is the racial and culture issues that drive their political affiliation and their votes. The black community knows that as well as any that if Northam was a racist.. and that this wasn't just a stupid mistake of poor judgment 30 years ago... he wouldn't be a f**king Democrat...
Edited by micky - February 09 2019 at 07:03
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
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Posted: February 09 2019 at 08:20 |
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^ Yes, the victim's of racism know that someone wearing blackface isn't the problem, the problem is lost job opportunities, housing opportunities, education opportunities etc.
The majority may be embarrassed by these old photos, but the minority already assumed they were there, its no big surprise to them, they just 'keep their eyes on the prize', and just try to ignore, as best they can, the expected cracks in the polite veneer of the majority.
Edited by Easy Money - February 09 2019 at 09:10
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micky
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Posted: February 09 2019 at 08:49 |
^ and color me fabulously curious for who the blacks as a voting block.. ie the southern primaries will break for in the coming campaign. They have in the past coalesced around one candidate as a block.. but is the year they fragment? One can see it happening. Those whose innate conservatism lead them to go centrist as they did Hillary in 2016 thus going Biden (or Sherrod Brown who is widely expected to run if Biden does't run and take the center while Warren and Harris fight a death match to claim the left of the party)
Warren's policies as I have sort of explained are perhaps their best path forward to start breaking the cycle of prepetuating racism and that through ending economic/education systematic racism.. but will they see it.. can she make a case for it to them? We shall see...
and what about Harris.. other than being a woman of color.. what is she really about politically.. the path to winning in 2020 is playing to the issues not playing identity politics.. so will be extremely curous to see how her campaign emerges and what she is really for...
will be interesting to see...
Edited by micky - February 09 2019 at 08:50
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
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Points: 9869
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Posted: February 09 2019 at 10:11 |
micky wrote:
pretty much the whole of the establishment as it were along with the media have not supported him and told him to step down. You have to do that ..goes back to what I alluded to with the white reaction to this. Morally it is hard to condone what he did. Politically for the Democratic Party is it impossible to do. Though they are now really after the Lt. Governor and in that he will have to resign... which is likely going to be the political cover Northam needs. As there is NO.. ZERO.. NADDA chance of surviving multiple credible allegations of sexual abuse.. unless of course you are a SCOTUS nominee and either are too shortsighted or too stupid as the Republicans are to see that alienating women is not a good move hahah.
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I don't think in any case the Kavanaugh case and Northam are comparable. Kavanaugh was at least alleged to have done something that if true would have been a crime. Northam isn't. I am quite concerned about the obsession in the Democratic Party with moral character as demonstrated by choice of words and not from whom you accept campaign funding, to who all you give private speeches for money and whether you quietly support gentrification in your backyard anyway. From everything I have read, FDR was deeply flawed. So was JFK and so was Lincoln. So was Gandhi who I mentioned upthread. And all of these leaders provided REAL leadership in difficult times when the world most needed it. William Jefferson Clinton may not have been a leader of the stature of the aforementioned folks but he did a lot of good stuff, left the economy and balance sheet in a healthy shape and knew how to win elections. This is politics; people can't be losing sight of the big picture.
If the Democratic Party wants candidates that it can at least pretend are perfect, it won't get it or it will think it does until the GOP trumps up (pun intended) some story to stick onto the candidate anyway. If the accusation isn't at least of criminal conduct, it ideally ought to be let go of. Now if Northam said something offensive TODAY, that would obviously be a hot potato and not a fight worth fighting for the party but all these years back? Why? And what, do people who vote Democrat really think they are so amazing and unimpeachable as to hold the leaders they want to such lofty standards? It's a choice between four more years of Agent Orange or a possibly flawed but more reliable President who might be able to repair and restore America's reputation. It's a choice that needs to be carefully and wisely exercised. IMHO.
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