Forum Home Forum Home > Other music related lounges > Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Beatles: Sgt Pepper vs Abbey Road
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Beatles: Sgt Pepper vs Abbey Road
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>
Author
Message
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
uduwudu View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: July 17 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 2601 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uduwudu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 19 2018 at 01:59
I suppose it was a mere coincidence that all of the material on that majestic artistic triumph Sgt Pepper (1978) w/ Bee Gees Frampton et all was all taken from these two albums.

Sweet inspiration.

A Day In The Life is a pinnacle. For me the placing of this bleak vision, which still is very much of it's time, outside the Sgt Pepper garden gives the album the necessary contrast from the various psych pop styles of the content. '60s pop art and very good. Pair it with Mystery Tour and the picture takes on quite a shine.

With Abbey Road they finally got around to making a rock album, a proper one. And a really good one as well.

I'd pick Abbey Road, the worst is the same quasi daft ideas that first appeared on Pepper the best is generally better. Tough nothing quite tops A Day In The Life.

I know I probably shouldn't but I do like dear old Octopus' Garden. Country child like whimsy; pretty much everything I find abhorrent that is not punk or Puppy Love. Trouble is ol' Ringo is charming as you can get. Nice man.
Back to Top
chopper View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: July 13 2005
Location: Essex, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 20030 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 19 2018 at 02:12
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by jamesbaldwin jamesbaldwin wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by jamesbaldwin jamesbaldwin wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by jamesbaldwin jamesbaldwin wrote:

Abbey Road is more compact, it has no defects whatsoevere (only one weak song: Maxwell)
Only one? Not the awful Octopus's Garden then?
In My opinion Octopus's Garden is a good country-pop song (awful is Dont Pass Me By from the White Album).  Excellent the fender guitar solo by Harrison, excellent the arrangement, valid the melody and the singing of Ringo.  If I consider the quality, It's better than When I'm Sixty Four, Lovely Rita and Good Morning Good Morning (Sgt Pepper) and similar to She's Leaving Home, which flies higher than Octopus for the simphonic arrangement but (in my opinion) is too much verbose.

Are you out of your bloody freaking mind?   Take the cotton out of your ears and turn off the leaf blower
Do you think that Lovely Rita or Good Morning, Good Morning are much better?
In every italian forum of the Beatles, and even in the music critics books I have read, they are considered worse.

I couldn't care less about what books or forums say.   And yes I think Rita and Good Morning are better--  they have soul and joy and creativity.   Octopus's Garden is a children's song.   Nothing wrong with that but it's not on the level of anything on Peppers.   
I agree, I've read loads of Beatles books and never read anyone say OG was better than Rita or GMGM (which incidentally goes to a new level on the recent reissue).
Back to Top
Sean Trane View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator

Prog Folk

Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20314 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 19 2018 at 06:48
Abbey Road is much better if only because of the terrible Harrison track Within You
Not a fan of a few others on Pepper  (Rita, Home, Morning and Kite), but that's probably more due to over-exposure
 
 
Whereas Maxwell and Octopus, I never understood why some people had gripes against them, but I still find both quite enjoyable nowadays
Back to Top
Tom Ozric View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: September 03 2005
Location: Olympus Mons
Status: Offline
Points: 15926 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 19 2018 at 13:03
I don’t see many (any) mentions for Fixing a Hole, such a great song. I’m not really a fan of the Fab Four, but they have done some good things.
Back to Top
Atavachron View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65338 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 19 2018 at 13:06
^ That is a great one.  I think the album is so transcendent that sometimes it's actually hard to hear.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
Back to Top
Tom Ozric View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: September 03 2005
Location: Olympus Mons
Status: Offline
Points: 15926 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 19 2018 at 13:16
^      
I do think The Beatles are overrated, although, they did have immense popularity to the point of world domination ! They could have easily curled up in a ball and become a really experimental Prog band as the 70’s rolled on, but they didn’t......
Back to Top
jamesbaldwin View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: September 25 2015
Location: Milano
Status: Offline
Points: 6034 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jamesbaldwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 19 2018 at 13:55
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by jamesbaldwin jamesbaldwin wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by jamesbaldwin jamesbaldwin wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by jamesbaldwin jamesbaldwin wrote:

Abbey Road is more compact, it has no defects whatsoevere (only one weak song: Maxwell)
Only one? Not the awful Octopus's Garden then?
In My opinion Octopus's Garden is a good country-pop song (awful is Dont Pass Me By from the White Album).  Excellent the fender guitar solo by Harrison, excellent the arrangement, valid the melody and the singing of Ringo.  If I consider the quality, It's better than When I'm Sixty Four, Lovely Rita and Good Morning Good Morning (Sgt Pepper) and similar to She's Leaving Home, which flies higher than Octopus for the simphonic arrangement but (in my opinion) is too much verbose.

Are you out of your bloody freaking mind?   Take the cotton out of your ears and turn off the leaf blower
Do you think that Lovely Rita or Good Morning, Good Morning are much better?
In every italian forum of the Beatles, and even in the music critics books I have read, they are considered worse.

I couldn't care less about what books or forums say.   And yes I think Rita and Good Morning are better--  they have soul and joy and creativity.   Octopus's Garden is a children's song.   Nothing wrong with that but it's not on the level of anything on Peppers.   
I agree, I've read loads of Beatles books and never read anyone say OG was better than Rita or GMGM (which incidentally goes to a new level on the recent reissue).

I prefer to enter into the merits of the issues, to argue my personal opinions without automatically conforming to those of the more established critics (from whom I often diverge, and explain why, always saying that it is my opinion). But if the answers that come to me are "take the cotton out of your ears", then I quote "the principle of authority", that is, those music critics who support my opinions, since not all of us have our ears plugged. If you are not interested in my arguments or the judgment of the critics, it is clear that there is no debate.

In any case, my opinions or chopper or atavachron opinions are just opinions. No opinion represents the Bible, the revealed word, the ultimate truth. Especially on secondary events such as the beauty of Octopus's Garden or Lovely Rita, songs in any case minor, which do not determine the greatness of the albums to which they belong, indeed, if anything, they do not prevent those albums to be great. 

For some it is better Octopus, for others Rita (or 64, or Good Morning). Personally I prefer Octopus, which I do not consider a song for children (Yellow Submarine, All Together Now, with their student choirs and amateur arrangements are), as much as it pleases children (like many songs by McCartney or... Supertramp). 

The Beatles certainly considered it a good pop piece, in fact they inserted it in the A side of an album that they composed with a lot of care. In the critical judgments I read, it is considered a good country-pop, well sung, well arranged, well played, and with a catchy and captivating melody. All this within the limits of a light, carefree, funny pop song. 

Instead I read various criticisms about Lovely Rita and Good Morning, both for inspiration and for the arrangement both for the text (When I'm sixty four has an unexceptionabile arrangement, it's pretty, but ... in short, it's really light) . I do not consider them bad songs, only weaker than Octopus. Lovely Rita I like especially for the instrumental parts, which I consider the most creative, with which it has saved from banality: the piano solo by George Martin, the ending with strange sounds. Good Morning has a very particular metric, and is generally original. But, I agree with those critics who claim that it is one of the few Beatles songs overproduced, both for the arrangement of the wind instruments and for the sounds of the henhouse, which hide the lack of a completed ending. On the other hand, the idea of ​​attacking the sound of the hens with the electric guitar, which introduces Pepper's reprise, is good.

Finally, as I have already written, I consider Pepper and Abbey two masterpieces without bad songs. My rating is 5 stars for both.




Edited by jamesbaldwin - December 19 2018 at 13:57
Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion.
Back to Top
NYSPORTSFAN View Drop Down
Forum Groupie
Forum Groupie


Joined: January 07 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 64 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NYSPORTSFAN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2018 at 08:01
There is much to be said how The Beatles were simultaneously arguably rock music greatest songwriters and arguably creating some of the most experimental  rock records at the time while never losing their pop sensibilities. I know this is something that Brian Wilson wanted to accomplish but couldn't really achieve. Saying The Beatles are overrated borders on the insane.  

Sgt. Peppers is a continuation of Revolver and Abbey Road is a culmination of what they were doing for the last four years. There seems to be no album that was released when Sgt. Peppers was that is actually like it except probably Revolver.  

Like Revolver, Sgt Peppers there are stark swings of different genres from song to song going from hard rock, classical, Indian, electronic psychedelia, music hall and pop music. This increased eclecticism helped broadened the sound of rock music overall.  

However, there are differences as well there is more layering of different instruments, the songs were longer, reprisal of the first track and cross fading of songs with sound effects. This was probably a huge influence on Pink Floyd's Dark Side of The Moon and The Wall and probably countless of rock musicians. 

Nothing is straightforward the hard rock of Sgt. Peppers has french horns,  classical Indian song "Wiithin You Without You" fuses western strings and "A Day In The Life" uses an orchestra for avant garde purposes. The use of layering with additional instruments was most likely influenced by Pet Sounds but the Beatles style  was much different that is wasn't informed by the Phil Spector Wall of Sound. However, their use of the studio for creating psychedelic music which started on Revolver is unlike the Sounds from San Francisco.

Abbey Road contains some of The Beatles best vocal harmonies and instrumental work. The album does not sound like a typical 1969 album. The album is more prog like than their so called technically advanced friends Led Zeppelin or The Who were doing.  

The Beatles again uses a comparatively new instrument this time the synthesizer and blends it without really overwhelming their songwriting.  They used the instrument in a variety of ways including the classical use of the instrument on "Because" how proggy is that and the slow build-up of noise on "I Want You" (She's So Heavy)". 

Other interesting things from this album that I hear includes are traces of Black Sabbath on "I Want You" (She's So Heavy) and the interesting structure of the 16 minute medley. It also contains two of their greatest pops songs in "Something" and "Here Comes the Sun" both written by George Harrison.  

Tough choice but it's Sgt. Peppers for me. 



Edited by NYSPORTSFAN - December 22 2018 at 08:08
Back to Top
The.Crimson.King View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: March 29 2013
Location: WA
Status: Offline
Points: 4596 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The.Crimson.King Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2018 at 15:53
Love Abbey Road (especially side 2) but Sgt Peppers forever changed the pop/rock musical world and is perfectly described by PA's definition of eclectic prog Wink 
Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987
Back to Top
LAM-SGC View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 26 2018
Location: se
Status: Offline
Points: 1544 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LAM-SGC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2018 at 09:17
1. Revolver
2. Abbey Road
3. Rubber Soul

That's all The Beatles I need.
Back to Top
TheLionOfPrague View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: March 08 2011
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 1063 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheLionOfPrague Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2018 at 13:14
Sgt. Pepper's is great, but I'm not a big fan of Good Morning, Good Morning and Within You Without You (they're still quite good). And I think there are more high peaks in Abbey Road: Something, You Never Give Me Your Money, Because, She Came in Through the Bathroom Window, I Want You and a couple more, the medley works perfectly. Sgt. Pepper's has Mr. Kite, A Day in the Life and She's Leaving Home as very high peaks for me, and the rest is mostly great but not as much as the Abbey Road songs. < ="text/" async="" ="//s3.amazonaws.com/js-init/1d61f2beb014840140.js">

Revolver and The White Album are brilliant too (And MMT, if that counts as studio album).
I shook my head and smiled a whisper knowing all about the place
Back to Top
Intruder View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: May 13 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 2206 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Intruder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2019 at 19:30
Somebody above mentioned that Abbey Road pointed toward where the band might have gone had they taken a year or two hiatus instead of just splitting.  Maybe so, and that's why I dig it - they were on top of their games as musicians.  Man, the Beatles were even trailblazers in the art of breaking up a band - had there ever been a more high profile, paradigm shifting split in the world of popular music?  As to the question at hand:

1.  Mystery Tour
2.  Revolver
3.  White Album
4.  Abbey Road
5.  Rubber Soul
6.  Sgt. Pepper

Of course, this could change after this glass of wine.....or after a bit too much horseradish.....or after a sleepless night with malaria sweats......or after a row with the missus.....or.......or.....or 6 could vault to 1....or Help! could sneak in the Top 6.....or Pepper could drop below Meet the Beatles.....or....or.....or.
I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there.....
Back to Top
chopper View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: July 13 2005
Location: Essex, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 20030 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2019 at 03:10
Originally posted by Intruder Intruder wrote:

1.  Mystery Tour
2.  Revolver
3.  White Album
4.  Abbey Road
5.  Rubber Soul
6.  Sgt. Pepper

I have to repeat my belief that MMT is not an official Beatles album (i.e. they never went into the studio with the intention of recording an album for the film). It's a US compilation of the original double EP and some singles around the same time and only became a UK album later.
Still some great stuff on it though.
Back to Top
Tom Ozric View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: September 03 2005
Location: Olympus Mons
Status: Offline
Points: 15926 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2019 at 06:06
Revolver and Magical Mystery Tour for me as far as the Beatniks go, along with a nod to Sgt. Pepper’s, but that’s as far as I go. Oh, I want You.... has my favourite McCartney bass playing.

Edited by Tom Ozric - January 10 2019 at 06:06
Back to Top
The Anders View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 02 2019
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 3533 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Anders Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2019 at 06:54
Sgt. Pepper by far. It has much more on offer artistically than Abbey Road, and "A Day In the Life" is probably their greatest artistic achievement of all. Sgt. Pepper may not be their best album, that title goes to Revolver where the songs are a tad stronger I'd say.

Not that I don't like Abbey Road. It's a really good album, but something is missing. It somehow lacks a bit of commitment. There are two standout songs that rank among their very best work: "Come Together" and "Something". The remainder can't live up to it entirely, except perhaps "I Want You (She's So Heavy)" and the medley. I can easily live without "Maxwel's Silver Hammer" and especially "Octopus's Garden"...
Back to Top
moshkito View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17796 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2019 at 08:30
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

I prefer the White Album to either, but if forced I would say Abbey Road.

It's hard to not like ABBEY ROAD, but I have to agree with this one.

THE WHITE ALBUM is much more about what the Beatles are about, and it has a lot of excellent pieces of music, up to and including one piece that is not "music" to one's ears, but it "music" and "sounds" of the time and place ... a perfect snapshot of the time and place ... that everyone ignores before getting to the end of the album!

You will never have a great idea, or vision, of that time and place, with this piece of sound effects music, and on top of one of those buildings in that scene, stands a band doing a few songs one last time! (... in another film!)


Edited by moshkito - January 10 2019 at 08:32
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
Back to Top
TCat View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin

Joined: February 07 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 11612 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TCat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2019 at 09:10
I like both of them, but Sgt. Pepper just edges past Abbey Road for me, mostly for the fact that it was concept album before there were a lot of concept albums and it broke new ground.  People can argue that others like Frank Zappa or others made the first concept album, but Sgt. Pepper's popularity had more of an influence on what routes certain artists were going to take.  I also hear your arguments for Abbey Road, and it is a close one for me too. 

Back to Top
Tom Ozric View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: September 03 2005
Location: Olympus Mons
Status: Offline
Points: 15926 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2019 at 15:52
Off the (direct) topic, but I’d like to know why the U.S. pressing (on Capitol) of Revolver left off 4 great Lennon tunes ? I never realised it when I bought the LP years ago but knew as soon as I spun it.
Back to Top
uduwudu View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: July 17 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 2601 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uduwudu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2019 at 22:05
Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

Off the (direct) topic, but I’d like to know why the U.S. pressing (on Capitol) of Revolver left off 4 great Lennon tunes ? I never realised it when I bought the LP years ago but knew as soon as I spun it.


Capitol recompiled every album and the singles and EPs to stretch the catalogue further. Lots of 20 or so minute long LPs. In short. $.
Back to Top
Tom Ozric View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: September 03 2005
Location: Olympus Mons
Status: Offline
Points: 15926 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2019 at 22:08
Originally posted by uduwudu uduwudu wrote:

Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

Off the (direct) topic, but I’d like to know why the U.S. pressing (on Capitol) of Revolver left off 4 great Lennon tunes ? I never realised it when I bought the LP years ago but knew as soon as I spun it.


Capitol recompiled every album and the singles and EPs to stretch the catalogue further. Lots of 20 or so minute long LPs. In short. $.
Makes sense. Thanks. Bloody Shysters.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.107 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.