Pirated again !

I don't imagine those websites have a ton of traffic since soulseek became the go-to.  

"I don't imagine those websites have a ton of traffic since soulseek became the go-to.  "

Eastern Europe, different audience. One site along had shifted £450 in downloads. These sites pop up like Whack a Mole ones, so if you have five sites on the boil at once, it becomes significant. 

Not really bothered about the money - just the principle, to be honest. 

Edited by Davesax1965 - January 06 2019 at 03:04

Davesax1965 wrote: irrelevant wrote: How are people going to discover your music?  Well, I honestly couldn't care, any more. Given the fact that one site had given away hundreds of downloads for free, the conclusion I've come to is that the only people who listen to my stuff don't pay for it. A few do.  I'm not interested in playing for freeloaders. It's nothing to do with the money, it's about people having a it of respect. I don't need fans who don't actually support anyone, they're not fans, but vultures.  I'll just play with other musicians for my own amusement in future. Ask yourself this question: wouldn't you ?

Thanks, FlyingVeePixie, nail on the head, really. There comes a point where you just think, oh, stuff it. And then decide to play with other musicians only. 

NotAProgHead - ahhhh, sorry, you're actually not quite right. Up until a few years ago, I was making about £500 an album. I expect quite a few small bands here were as well - so this isn't "dark horse" material. I had several hundred fans. With the coming of Spotify et al, the concept is now that music is free, so piracy has become rife and the result is that what was once something I did merely for the love of it (not the money, £500, so what ? ) has become something I now do to be at best frustrated and at worst appalled by what 90% of the "fans" now do. Everyone just either rips music or goes straight to a torrent site or streaming site.

I take it you've not played many gigs ? Lug a drumkit up five flights of stairs in a snowstorm to play to five men and a dog ? Get ripped off by promoters, small venues etc etc ? Spend most of your time doing "marketing" instead of playing ? Playing specialty music - prog rock - to small audiences only works in big cities and there's the additional expense of transport, PA hire, lighting hire, you name it. For most small, specialised bands, it's an almost guaranteed way of losing a lot more money than you'll lose in, say, illegal downloads.

Almost zero bands will gig and make a profit. That's "commercial bands", by the way. Anyone playing specialist music has even less of a chance, the audience is not there and the entire system is geared up against you. You will have to nearly fill a venue to make a profit. Making a living from music ? Forget it. Won't happen. 

And it's simply not about money. If I wanted money from music, I'd do commercial music. It's about the love of it, and the love is pretty much gone out of it where involving the general public are concerned. 

So, having pulled all the music off the site, I'll merely play along with other musicians. That's where the real enjoyment is. I don't need an audience to enjoy playing music. If the audience are completely unwilling to pay for it, great !! I don't have to worry about them any more. Less complication. I can just ring up a few muso friends of mine and we can have a jam now and then (found some local people, took ages ) - if the audience don't do their bit and pay, they don't have to turn up, frankly. 

Edited by Davesax1965 - January 06 2019 at 07:38

NotAProghead wrote: It's quite ridiculous - unknown bands cry they suffer from piracy. If you think all people who downloaded your music illegally would buy it if there were no ways to get it for free, I have to disappoint you. Very few would buy "dark horses". Look at yourselves first, guys. Are you always buying music of other unknown artists? Or you prefer to check before you buy? Are you not the same "vultures" in relation to other artists?  Want it or not, the time of studio projects is over. The only way to get some money from your music is playing gigs and selling CDs (LPs and merch) at concerts. Am I wrong?

Hi Dougie, no, I don't rip musicians off. Any music I have has been bought. Even with "free downloads" I try and contribute at least something to the artist. You can, occasionally, on some download sites. 

It's because I value music as, after 42 years of playing, I know how much work goes into doing something decent. 

[QUOTE=Davesax1965] Hi Dougie, no, I don't rip musicians off. Any music I have has been bought. Even with "free downloads" I try and contribute at least something to the artist. You can, occasionally, on some download sites. 

It's because I value music as, after 42 years of playing, I know how much work goes into doing something decent. [/QUOTE

Crossed wires there Dave. I meant to address the proghead bloke who made the daft comment about how unknowns shouldn’t complain about getting ripped off. I find that attitude very infuriating and quite wrong. And as for seeling merch at gigs... lol. As you rightly say the days are long gone when I’m going to go humping 4x12 cabs up 3 flights of stairs to play to 2 drunks and a dog never mind try to sell them any merch...

Edited by Dougie McGee - January 06 2019 at 08:04

NotAProghead wrote: Davesax1965 wrote:  And it's simply not about money. If I wanted money from music, I'd do commercial music. I guess it's genre-independent. There are lots of artists playing pop who are not popular at all.   Davesax1965 wrote: So, having pulled all the music off the site, I'll merely play along with other musicians. That's where the real enjoyment is. I don't need an audience to enjoy playing music. If the audience are completely unwilling to pay for it, great !! I don't have to worry about them any more. Less complication. I can just ring up a few muso friends of mine and we can have a jam now and then (found some local people, took ages ) - if the audience don't do their bit and pay, they don't have to turn up, frankly.  It's very untypical for the artist. I've heard from musicians that stage is a strong drug - they need the audience feedback even feel the power over the crowd. I think it's an essential bonus to the joy of playing your music, isn't it?

They're not musicians. They're performers. ;-)

I'm taking it you don't play ? The novelty soon wears off when some drunk wants a go of your priceless 1933 alto sax, or you get absolute idiots dancing around to your stuff, smashed out of their minds, or you get people talking over your set or thinking they can play better than you, or offering you worthless opinions.... the list is endless.

The fact remains that you don't actually need an audience to be a musician - you sometimes need a few other musicians as well - and if the audience doesn't fulfill it's part of the contract (turn up, pay, support) then you actually don't need them at all. Non musicians sometimes get very hung up on how important they are to bands, and how bands should listen to them and produce this and that and play in this location etc etc. Er, in commercial music, yes. In non commercial, "proper" music, no. 

No no no. 

Musicians do NOT need an audience. They need other musicians. No one's mentioned readers, writers, actors or spectators. 

If you were playing in a string quartet, you need the three other people in the quartet. The enjoyment comes from playing with them. You don't *need* an audience. 

Being worshipped or adored or needed is for children or those who need their egos massaging. Non musicians, and I should expect you are one, have this weird idea that they somehow understand music or musicians or how you should play a musical instrument and 101 other things. 

They actually have no idea at all. But the internet is a place where someone's misinformed opinion is worth more than someone elses' 40 years of actual knowledge. 

There will be some Russian anekdot about this, no doubt. ;-)

Take the Moscow Symphony Orchestra. They all play together. Prokofiev, in concert. At the end of the day, they get paid. I've played in orchestras. If the audience weren't there and I still got paid, I enjoyed it much the same. The pleasure is to play with other musicians. Unlike writers and actors, who you seem to have mysteriously introduced. To prop up an uninformed opinion. 

^ Absolutely right strategy if musicians don't need the audience.