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IVNORD 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2006
Location: USA
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 Posted: December 25 2018 at 08:01 |
 rogerthat wrote:
SteveG wrote:
^ That Trump continually buckles in all and every situation regarding Putin is too close for comfort. His numerous aides and confidants that have ties to Putin is beyond coincidence. The only thing that I find that may be pushing it is actually finding a smoking gun tying Trump to Putin. Trump's most likely into Putin for big money having thought that he never stood a chance of being elected president when he "borrowed" it. It happened and now he has Russian skeletons in his closet. The only thing that remains is to see if the light in this closet works. |
Pretty much this. 'Genius' Trump bailed himself out of trouble by surrendering to Russians who were the only ones who would help him out of his mess in the 80s. Now they are using that leverage to the hilt. And remember that Trump talked about running for the Presidency for the first time in the late 80s. So my guess is they have been needling him for a long time to extract their pound of flesh. Maybe the project lost steam in the 90s when America installed its own puppet in Russia (Yelstin). But with Putin consolidating power and sensing the opportunity post 2008 to revive the Russian state politically and militarily, he must have nudged (with gun to head if required) Trump into politics again.
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These are the most convoluted scenarios one can imagine. Just wondering what you were saying back in the day when the right wing idiots were screaming and yelling about Obama selling the country to the Russians after this 'private' exchange
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mgQaFlo_p8
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IVNORD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2006
Location: USA
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Points: 1191
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Posted: December 25 2018 at 16:23 |
I would really hate to spoil some of you guys' sweet dreams in anticipation of Trump's impeachment on grounds of high treason but do you realize that if Mueller has a tiny shred of evidence of Trump being in cahoots with the Russians he must alert the proper authorities immediately upon learning such fact? Not wait for a good moment to release it but do it right away since potential treason in the highest executive office presents immense danger to the country and delaying the announcement of it for political, professional, personal, or any other f**king reason makes Mueller an accomplice to the crime. Do you really believe that an accomplished attorney that he is would risk his reputation, position, and ultimately freedom only to produce a sensation of sorts?
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
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Points: 65523
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Posted: December 25 2018 at 17:04 |
^ Mueller may have nothing that would lead to removal from office, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have something that would lead to impeachment. 'High crimes' or not, impeachment is a voted decision by the House and if necessary tried by the Senate. For most crimes, Trump could be prosecuted after he left office but probably not during. And if it is treason, it is possible Mueller, however unlikely, has in fact already informed the Justice Dept.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
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Points: 10672
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Posted: December 25 2018 at 17:32 |
IVNORD wrote:
I would really hate to spoil some of you guys' sweet dreams in anticipation of Trump's impeachment on grounds of high treason but do you realize that if Mueller has a tiny shred of evidence of Trump being in cahoots with the Russians he must alert the proper authorities immediately upon learning such fact? Not wait for a good moment to release it but do it right away since potential treason in the highest executive office presents immense danger to the country and delaying the announcement of it for political, professional, personal, or any other f**king reason makes Mueller an accomplice to the crime. Do you really believe that an accomplished attorney that he is would risk his reputation, position, and ultimately freedom only to produce a sensation of sorts? |
I don't recall anyone in this thread who has wanted trump to be impeached, so I'm not sure what "sweet dreams" you are referring to. You will find many people in this thread who think that he is everything from a con artist to an inept fool, but I don't recall anyone who thinks impeachment would be a good idea.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: December 25 2018 at 23:40 |
IVNORD wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
SteveG wrote:
^ That Trump continually buckles in all and every situation regarding Putin is too close for comfort. His numerous aides and confidants that have ties to Putin is beyond coincidence. The only thing that I find that may be pushing it is actually finding a smoking gun tying Trump to Putin. Trump's most likely into Putin for big money having thought that he never stood a chance of being elected president when he "borrowed" it. It happened and now he has Russian skeletons in his closet. The only thing that remains is to see if the light in this closet works. |
Pretty much this. 'Genius' Trump bailed himself out of trouble by surrendering to Russians who were the only ones who would help him out of his mess in the 80s. Now they are using that leverage to the hilt. And remember that Trump talked about running for the Presidency for the first time in the late 80s. So my guess is they have been needling him for a long time to extract their pound of flesh. Maybe the project lost steam in the 90s when America installed its own puppet in Russia (Yelstin). But with Putin consolidating power and sensing the opportunity post 2008 to revive the Russian state politically and militarily, he must have nudged (with gun to head if required) Trump into politics again.
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These are the most convoluted scenarios one can imagine. Just wondering what you were saying back in the day when the right wing idiots were screaming and yelling about Obama selling the country to the Russians after this 'private' exchange
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mgQaFlo_p8 |
Looool, not from here and have no idea what the right did or didn't say to link Obama to Russia. Actually, I have been speculating about Trump -Russia from the time the Russian govt raised a toast to his victory. Of course, they could all be coincidences, as also the fact that Russia bailed him out of his mess back in the 80s. But there could be well be much more to it. Perhaps you find the notion of Russia being able to influence your election unsettling but remember the American establishment has 'managed ' regime changes in this way for many years in different nations. So if it did happen the one time to America, it need not be surprising in light of what generally happens in the rest of the planet anyway.
Edited by rogerthat - December 26 2018 at 06:29
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npjnpj
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 05 2007
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 2720
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Posted: December 26 2018 at 03:37 |
Seeing that we're talking about the world's top strategists, I don't see a problem considering any convoluted scenarios. In this particular case I even find it to be pretty straightforward.
Just because most people can't see past the end of their noses, doesn't mean that others can't either. Especially people that have built their carriers on such matters. Putin isn't some dingeling who just lives from one day to the next.
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20617
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Posted: December 26 2018 at 03:47 |
IVNORD wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
SteveG wrote:
^ That Trump continually buckles in all and every situation regarding Putin is too close for comfort. His numerous aides and confidants that have ties to Putin is beyond coincidence. The only thing that I find that may be pushing it is actually finding a smoking gun tying Trump to Putin. Trump's most likely into Putin for big money having thought that he never stood a chance of being elected president when he "borrowed" it. It happened and now he has Russian skeletons in his closet. The only thing that remains is to see if the light in this closet works. |
Pretty much this. 'Genius' Trump bailed himself out of trouble by surrendering to Russians who were the only ones who would help him out of his mess in the 80s. Now they are using that leverage to the hilt. And remember that Trump talked about running for the Presidency for the first time in the late 80s. So my guess is they have been needling him for a long time to extract their pound of flesh. Maybe the project lost steam in the 90s when America installed its own puppet in Russia (Yelstin). But with Putin consolidating power and sensing the opportunity post 2008 to revive the Russian state politically and militarily, he must have nudged (with gun to head if required) Trump into politics again.
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These are the most convoluted scenarios one can imagine. Just wondering what you were saying back in the day when the right wing idiots were screaming and yelling about Obama selling the country to the Russians after this 'private' exchange
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mgQaFlo_p8 |
P.T. Barnum said there's a sucker born every minute. That makes you about 60 seconds old.
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
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Points: 65523
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Posted: December 26 2018 at 12:26 |
You'll be sorely missed in this thread, Steve. Hope we don't lose you forever around here.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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IVNORD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2006
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1191
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Posted: December 26 2018 at 20:16 |
Atavachron wrote:
^ Mueller may have nothing that would lead to removal from office, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have something that would lead to impeachment. 'High crimes' or not, impeachment is a voted decision by the House and if necessary tried by the Senate. |
I didn't mean to discuss what Mueller has. Nor did I mean to go into the legal stuff. I just wanted to point to the insanity of people who are blinded by their hatred to such a degree they dream of Trump's removal even on the grounds of treason as almost a done deal. How can it be more idiotic. The entertainment value of this forum is fantastic.
Atavachron wrote:
For most crimes, Trump could be prosecuted after he left office but probably not during. |
Who cares.
Atavachron wrote:
And if it is treason, it is possible Mueller, however unlikely, has in fact already informed the Justice Dept. |
If it's treason and the DOJ has been informed why would they keep it secret? President of the United States is a traitor, the Attorney General is aware of it and keeps quiet? Be serious. Trump is an arrogant jackass who probably is guilty of something like illegal hush paments or something, but treason....
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IVNORD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2006
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1191
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Posted: December 26 2018 at 20:17 |
Easy Money wrote:
I don't recall anyone in this thread who has wanted trump to be impeached, |
Really!?
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10672
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Posted: December 26 2018 at 20:49 |
IVNORD wrote:
Easy Money wrote:
I don't recall anyone in this thread who has wanted trump to be impeached, |
Really!? |
Yes really, there are plenty of posts from those who think he is dishonest or less than qualified, but even his detractors in this thread have stated their reluctance to impeachment. Does anyone really think President Pence is a good idea? Maybe I missed something and you can show me the pro-impeachment posts.
Edited by Easy Money - December 26 2018 at 20:50
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
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Joined: August 11 2007
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Posted: December 26 2018 at 21:07 |
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^ There was a discussion a few pages back between several trump detractors and they expressed their reluctance towards impeachment for several reasons:
1) President Pence
2) Impeaching Clinton back-fired on his detractors and brought Clinton sympathy
3) Let the voters decide if trump gets a second term, more than likely he will not
4} Impeachment would be a divisive hardship on the country
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IVNORD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2006
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1191
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Posted: December 26 2018 at 21:15 |
Easy Money wrote:
Yes really, there are plenty of posts from those who think he is dishonest or less than qualified, but even his detractors in this thread have stated their reluctance to impeachment. Does anyone really think President Pence is a good idea?
Maybe I missed something and you can show me the pro-impeachment posts. |
Search this thread for 'impeach' so you will find a few explicit ones. And what you call ' their reluctance to impeachment' is really a euphemism for 'an implicit desire to impeach' with just a little technicality named Pence standing in the way 
Edited by IVNORD - December 26 2018 at 21:21
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10672
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Posted: December 26 2018 at 21:17 |
IVNORD wrote:
Atavachron wrote:
[QUOTE=Atavachron] And if it is treason, it is possible Mueller, however unlikely, has in fact already informed the Justice Dept. |
If it's treason and the DOJ has been informed why would they keep it secret? President of the United States is a traitor, the Attorney General is aware of it and keeps quiet? Be serious. Trump is an arrogant jackass who probably is guilty of something like illegal hush paments or something, but treason.... |
I have no idea what trump may be accused of if anything, but lets suppose a case was being made for treason. This is not going be made public to us or the media until the case against him is airtight, that's how law enforcement is supposed to work. Ideally they are not supposed to be revealing everything they are looking at until they are ready to make a decisive move.
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10672
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Posted: December 26 2018 at 21:20 |
IVNORD wrote:
Search this thread for 'impeach' so you will find a few explicit ones. And what you call '<span style=": rgb248, 248, 252;">their reluctance to impeachment' is really a euphemism for 'an implicit desire to impeach' with just a little technicality named Pence standing in the way </span> |
You would have to show me the alleged impeachment posts, because all I recall were several reasons not to impeach him, which I listed a few posts above up there. Here they are again: 1) President Pence 2) Impeaching Clinton back-fired on his detractors and brought Clinton sympathy 3) Let the voters decide if trump gets a second term, more than likely he will not 4} Impeachment would be a divisive hardship on the country
Edited by Easy Money - December 26 2018 at 21:22
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IVNORD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2006
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1191
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Posted: December 26 2018 at 21:28 |
Easy Money wrote:
IVNORD wrote:
Atavachron wrote:
[QUOTE=Atavachron] And if it is treason, it is possible Mueller, however unlikely, has in fact already informed the Justice Dept. |
If it's treason and the DOJ has been informed why would they keep it secret? President of the United States is a traitor, the Attorney General is aware of it and keeps quiet? Be serious. Trump is an arrogant jackass who probably is guilty of something like illegal hush paments or something, but treason.... |
I have no idea what trump may be accused of if anything, but lets suppose a case was being made for treason.
This is not going be made public to us or the media until the case against him is airtight, that's how law enforcement is supposed to work. Ideally they are not supposed to be revealing everything they are looking at until they are ready to make a decisive move. |
I don't want to repeat myself. Just re-read the above. I wasn't talking about due process
Edited by IVNORD - December 26 2018 at 21:29
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IVNORD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2006
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1191
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Posted: December 26 2018 at 21:30 |
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10672
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Posted: December 26 2018 at 21:39 |
I couldn't find any pro-impeachment posts, but if you go to the middle of page 109 of this thread you can see posts from trump detractors who think impeachment is a bad idea for several reasons.
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10672
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Posted: December 26 2018 at 21:43 |
IVNORD wrote:
Easy Money wrote:
IVNORD wrote:
Atavachron wrote:
[QUOTE=Atavachron] And if it is treason, it is possible Mueller, however unlikely, has in fact already informed the Justice Dept. |
If it's treason and the DOJ has been informed why would they keep it secret? President of the United States is a traitor, the Attorney General is aware of it and keeps quiet? Be serious. Trump is an arrogant jackass who probably is guilty of something like illegal hush paments or something, but treason.... |
I have no idea what trump may be accused of if anything, but lets suppose a case was being made for treason.
This is not going be made public to us or the media until the case against him is airtight, that's how law enforcement is supposed to work. Ideally they are not supposed to be revealing everything they are looking at until they are ready to make a decisive move. |
I don't want to repeat myself. Just re-read the above. I wasn't talking about due process
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I re-read your post and you say why would the AG "keep quiet". Because hopefully they are professional law enforcement officials and they don't broadcast the details of a case they are working on until they are certain they are ready to move ahead.
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IVNORD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2006
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1191
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Posted: December 26 2018 at 21:46 |
Easy Money wrote:
I couldn't find any pro-impeachment posts, but if you go to the middle of page 109 of this thread you can see posts from trump detractors who think impeachment is a bad idea for several reasons. |
Do Advanced Search and select a one year period. I'm sure you'll find a couple
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