God

Jaketejas wrote: There are matters of fact (one can prove by scientific methods within the known universe) There are matters of opinion (I like prog. Prog is nice.) And there are matters of faith (if God exists, must be outside the known universe, undetectable by scientific methods.) Then we are left with other arguments. If there is good and evil, it is reasonable that there exists a 100% good and a 100% evil. Or the life came from life came from ... extrapolate to the year dot. Or the hey your conscience is gently whispering to you from some source. Those are all decent starting points for logical reasoning, methinks.

Thank you everyone. Logan, I certainly understand your skepticism but for me it comes down to math. That was the only time that's ever happened(turned on the TV and there's a show right there all about proving the existence of God). I'm 48 years old, so how many nights have I been alive? So what are the odds it will happen that very night that I ask for a sign? It never happened before or since. I've never seen that show again.

YESESIS wrote: TODAY is the 10 year anniversary of the day that God revealed Himself to me. June 18th, 2009. So huge day for me obviously.

 

I don't think I'm making a mistake, but I remain agnostic on all matters. I don't think I'm confusing anything. Politics, philosophy, arts, sciences, religion all intersect (that is a "revelation" that I had in college). There is a oneness to the universe in my mind.

Various cognitive scientists say that there is a religious component to our brains and with some people it's much more active than with others. So some people are hardwired for it and they may be very intelligent, but I suspect that many of those people would overcome it.

Religion and faith can by synonymous. While I wouldn't say that religion is "all" about faith even if often religion is considered to be organised faith (disorganised religion can have disorganised "tiafh" -- that's "faith" in a disorderly fashion), since religion is a set of beliefs, and those beliefs commonly require faith, faith is at the least an important component.

An individual could be religious without faith (follows the ritualistic practices and considers themselves to be a member of that community), as faith is something internal. Within a church, people commonly have different levels of faith, and different sorts of faith, and I have known many who belong to the Anglican Church who consider themselves to be Christian yet have no faith. I still go to Church now and then, and we recite the Apostles' Creed (I know it by heart):

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, God's only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to the dead.
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
and he will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.

It seems hypocritical of me to say it, and take communion, when I don't believe it, but even the minister told me that he doesn't literally believe it. As to an earlier post, I had both of my children baptised at the church where I was baptised.

Anyway, I know that I'm digressing from your point, which can be horribly frustrating in conversation. While someone can be intelligent who has faith, not only do I not think that faith (a belief that lacks scientific evidence, or lacking proof in the logic sense) is a sign of intelligence (not that you are saying that it is), but I think that it shows a lack of rationality, and often a lack of education (I don't mean formal, as one can become educated in many ways). "I believe because the Bible tells me" I have often heard from people (my wife was a Born Again Christian, and I was at an evangelical church event yesterday). Questioning is a sign of intelligence, and I do think that buying dogma wholesale which religion often expects, shows a lack of intelligence and intellectual rigour.

I've dealt with a lot of evangelicals, and they often seem to have a mind-block when it comes to even questioning some of the dogma that they believe in, and I have found and their attitudes often unethical (according to my standards) and lacking compassion. Such rigidity of thinking I do think shows a lack of intelligence, whereas an open mind is a more dexterous mind.

Just for fun, on faith, by one of my favourite atheists, Douglas Adams:

"Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mind-bogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as the final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God.
The argument goes something like this: "I refuse to prove that I exist,'" says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."
"But," says Man, "The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED."
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
"Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.”

EDIT for typos and to mention my and my kids baptisms. My eldest brother became an atheist right after going through confirmation.

Edited by Logan - July 31 2018 at 09:51

My God is Casey Crescenzo.

I have studied various religions and I am much more okay with some religious belief systems than others. I grew up going to Church and I consider myself to be a cultural Christian, by the way.

To resurrect this Bertrand Russell quote:

"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt."

The vaguer the conception of God, the more likely to me. It's a concept that we can define into existence.

To mix up Orwell's 1984 slogans: Ignorance is strength. I see both the firm belief and dogma of the orthodox as weakness, and I see the ignorance of those who don't claim to know as a strength....

Edited by Logan - July 30 2018 at 19:39

I can see what micky wrote above and agree with some, not all of it, but because I am Catholic and have stronger more positive feelings about God. God is the Creator, he created the earth, heavens and man and so to understand this one I think would have to understand the universe, which will never happen.

What is God...  let me start with what God is not haha

Mellotron Storm wrote: Endless Love

While I'm agnostic (a soft atheist), this is the conception of "God" that I would like to believe in.

Edited by Logan - July 30 2018 at 12:51