Flower Kings Appreciation Thread

Even if CD’s do sound superior to vinyl, LP’s are still a better format. Period !!

^ Mmmm   
But does she like Meshuggah, on vinyl of course

^ That’s fantastic !!   Hope to catch Wilson and Co. here in November. Just superb !
Beggs will always be my hero

I now have all eight the tangent cd's that I was missing. A
When I get home after this weekend I will listening to them all! But which order shall I listen to them!

Catcher10 wrote: dr wu23 wrote: M27Barney wrote: "it simply sounds better" - to you? - thus that could just be your own preference and loaded with confirmation bias!I have CD's and expensive headphones - need no more. I suspect that some people have better hearing than others. I want to see some science - proving that listening to vinyl is better - with a double-blind experiment! Somehwere on the old threads a couple of years or so ago Dean our past esteemed moderator and engineer expert did  several long posts to show that the audio frequencies ,etc ,etc  and hearing etc...showed that vinyl sounding  better is just a psychological/subjective perception. Just my two cents on what he once posted... Yes he did, but his explanations were always, as he stated, the scientific end of the argument, specifications only. For sure digital (not CD) holds the best specifications in the industry, can't argue that...but that in noway means "it sounds best". If we are talking physical media, the CD is restricted to an upper limit of 20KHz, that's it. The vinyl media has no upper limit, not that it matters much but there have been records pressed with upper frequencies of 30-50KHz and even 100KHz, does not matter because we will never hear that. Most of us are probably in the 15-17KHz range.....but that's not all of it. Your brain uses these upper limits to help process the music/sounds in its entirety, in the real world there are sounds with freq up to 50KHz, we know they exist we have no idea where they are coming from but we feel their presence. Why do you think so many people have subs in their media systems or cars...they want to "feel" the bass, it's never "wow that was a very low note I just heard".....no it's "wow did you see the pictures on the wall shake??!!" Feeling the music helps us be engaged more in the music. You need as much of the upper freq as possible, that helps you get the SNAP of a snare drum, if not it has a dense sound, dynamics are not there. A cymbal hit has freq well above 20KHz, probably close to 50% of its sound is higher than 20KHz, some horn instruments can shoot sounds above that range also. I want all the music range in my listening experience, that's why I don't listen to CDs anymore. I do listen to some 24bit hi-rez files and DSD files but those are terribly expensive and are very large files to d/l and there is nothing physical about them, do digital files even exist??  Recording in the digital domain is the best from a SNR perspective and capturing the audio, period. But all the other stuff that happens to a digital file downstream is not, the industry simply has not figured it out, its gotten much better in the past 25yrs but its still a big mess, digital that is. 24bit is more than enough to capture and hear audio without any noise, at 24bit that gives something crazy like 144dB SNR, that is much wider than absolute silence and human threshold of hearing pain, nuts, that simply is not natural. But we do it because we can, but again that does not equate to "sounds best". To me, you are having to convince yourself that your digital files sound best because inbetween songs you don't hear any noise, or a pop or click. You should know that the CD is probably not the best media to experience a high end listening session. It was never designed for that, it was designed to hold more minutes of music, that's all. I had zero issues with what Dean explained.....but it's not both sides of the story.

I don't disagree with you, even though I much prefer CD's to vinyl and always have (though admittedly, the early CD's from the 80's generally sound pretty terrible to me now, much worse than even the cheapest vinyl that was common back then).

You are, of course, forgetting that the actual recording equipment (mic's, amps, etc.) do not capture the frequencies you are talking about and never have.  The extra kHz frequencies that are captured are not from the instruments.

I found this very informative, though it doesn't make the subject of "which sounds better" or is better any less subjective.

http://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=Myths_(Vinyl)

This part is of particular interest, especially nowadays:

Vinyl is often sourced from digital anyway

Since the mid-1970s, vinyl mastering houses began using digital delay lines instead of analog delays on the signal going to the lathe that cuts the spiral groove. So even in the increasingly unlikely event that 100% of the recording, mixing and mastering was done entirely using analog gear and media, the end of the vinyl mastering process may well have involved a conversion to digital and back.


Edited by infandous - May 16 2018 at 10:48

I have zero issue with vinyl cut from a digital source.......All new recordings are saved in the digital domain, recorded to hard drives or flash drives as 24bit files, even 32bit (which is not needed but can be done). There are still some studios that offer analog tape recording, more now than in the past 20 yrs.

Monsters and men is one of prog rocks finest tracks from paradox. The vinyl argument is one of those that is identical to religious dogma. People who hear god in their heads are never going to believe he is a subjective delusion. Physics can prove that the sound through speakers is the same. But I posit that quantum effects at sub atomic levels in the gases that make up the atmosphere in my lounge would make each listening unique to each Planck unit of time in every possible vector of each quarks in every atom. I'm still loving the prog I ain't fussed about the devil in the details! However. No amount of digital technology is making me like Justin Timberlake!

Who is Tom?

AFlowerKingCrimson wrote: Who is Tom?

A nobody, a troll........I wouldn’t bother with him

^ You dig Spock’s Beard ?? Shame on you
Just AWESOME modern Prog. This is what it’s all about.

Edited by Tom Ozric - May 17 2018 at 04:56