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Easy Money 
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10617
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 Posted: March 24 2018 at 07:45 |
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^ I guess it depends on where you live, where I live, these people you might label as 'liberals' are more concerned with fair taxation and an end to corporate welfare, clean air and water, livable working wages, affordable health care, and a chance for anyone to attend college.
Edited by Easy Money - March 24 2018 at 07:57
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npjnpj
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 05 2007
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 2720
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Posted: March 24 2018 at 07:46 |
.... which brings us neatly back to Trump and Mueller 
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: March 24 2018 at 08:44 |
 Easy Money wrote:
^ I guess it depends on where you live, where I live, these people you might label as 'liberals' are more concerned with fair taxation and an end to corporate welfare, clean air and water, livable working wages, affordable health care, and a chance for anyone to attend college. |
Possibly so, because you said you live in a Southern state of the US. Related to that, there is such a strong rightward swing now that my political compass score has shifted to distinctly left-libertarian from being near-centrist even though my views haven't changed much at all in the last few years. It worries me and there can only be worse still to come.
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10617
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Posted: March 24 2018 at 09:39 |
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^ I do live in a very conservative part of the country, but it may or may not surprise some people that a lot of conservatives and Republicans I know can't stand Trump and consider him to be a dim-witted immoral self-serving cretin with a child like ego problem.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: March 24 2018 at 09:54 |
Easy Money wrote:
^ I do live in a very conservative part of the country, but it may or may not surprise some people that a lot of conservatives and Republicans I know can't stand Trump and consider him to be a dim-witted immoral self-serving cretin with a child like ego problem. |
That doesn't surprise me because Trump is a populist who is rightwing in a mostly cultural sense. That's why I said earlier that the worst side of the right seems to have been awakened in recent years and I don't see the other side changing tack so far. It's like they are in denial that this is happening but it is and we are living it at the moment.
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10617
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Posted: March 24 2018 at 10:06 |
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^ Trump is the opposite of the classic small government conservative as in Barry Goldwater or Jeff Flake, Trump is a big government right winger as in Adolph or the man he publicly admires, Putin.
Edited by Easy Money - March 24 2018 at 10:07
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: March 24 2018 at 10:40 |
Easy Money wrote:
^ Trump is the opposite of the classic small government conservative as in Barry Goldwater or Jeff Flake, Trump is a big government right winger as in Adolph or the man he publicly admires, Putin. |
Yup. Wonder if he privately admires Adolph. After all, he didn't have a major problem with Neo Nazi rallies.
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npjnpj
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 05 2007
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 2720
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Posted: March 24 2018 at 13:07 |
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As a sort of small addendum to the homophobia discussion above:
I'm amazed to see that the military-transgender discussion is on the table again. I'm astounded.
Doesn't the Trump regime realize that they're actually getting rid of invaluable volunteers?
These are people who are prepared to make up the front line of any battle, in the hope that they'll get they're balls shot off.
Unbelievable!
Edited by npjnpj - March 24 2018 at 13:09
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: March 24 2018 at 18:33 |
Defletion Don.. all you need to know.
He had a bad day on the economic front..when he and his f**king party got rolled by Chuck and Nancy and even Fox was calling them out on it. So what does he do.. change the story...and throw the Fundies and f**king bigots a bone by announcing that.. which of course.. will never happen as it .... oh... violates any number of laws and constitutional rights.. not to mention the wishes of the military itself than knows that efficiency and morale has not been affected by them being in the service.. no more than it was by having black integrated into the military....but oh course those are just little details to his moronic supporters.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65249
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Posted: March 24 2018 at 19:23 |
rogerthat wrote:
Easy Money wrote:
^ I do live in a very conservative part of the country, but it may or may not surprise some people that a lot of conservatives and Republicans I know can't stand Trump and consider him to be a dim-witted immoral self-serving cretin with a child like ego problem. |
That doesn't surprise me because Trump is a populist who is rightwing in a mostly cultural sense. That's why I said earlier that the worst side of the right seems to have been awakened in recent years and I don't see the other side changing tack so far. It's like they are in denial that this is happening but it is and we are living it at the moment. |
The question is did the Republicans who can't stand Trump that EasyMoney points out vote for him in the first place, and are they going to vote against him in 2020 (which if the economy is good he has a strong chance of winning) ? Because right now roughly the same number of Trump voters appear to still support him-- and no they won't be changing their minds in two years. Not by a long shot.
Edited by Atavachron - March 24 2018 at 19:24
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10617
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Posted: March 24 2018 at 20:45 |
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^ Most of the Republicans I know who do not like him, did not vote for him, they voted for Gary Johnson or write-ins like John McCain etc. Most of the people I know who liked him before the election still like him, although some are willing to admit he seems like an unpleasant person.
Edited by Easy Money - March 24 2018 at 20:46
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65249
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Posted: March 24 2018 at 21:33 |
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^ Interesting, I'm hearing more about the Trumpers who now see it as a huge mistake. I guess everyone tends to hear and see what they want.
Politics.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: March 24 2018 at 22:53 |
@Atavachron
As an outsider and based more on my reading of the behaviour of the 'disgruntled with establishment' coalition, I bet they will still vote for Trump cuz "can't stand the corrupt Democrats". Or some might vote for Gary Johnson or whoever stands on the Libertarian Party ticket in 2020 but that candidate will likely still get too few votes to move the needle (and may end up spoiling the Democrat vote by offering an acceptable non-Democrat alternative).
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20623
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Posted: March 25 2018 at 12:46 |
Let's be honest here.....Trump is all about Trump and those who support his business models ( make money while screwing anyone else), self promotion, and egotism. He doesn't give a rat's ass about the 'people'. I personally think there are good ideas to be found on both sides of the political spectrum...but he's not interested in that. He has clearly shown over the years that he's self obsessed, misogynist, obnoxious, and not well informed on most policies needed to be President. And I'm betting that many who voted for him have a similar personality or simply don't care he's like that.
ps: and I'm not trying to insult anyone who voted for him because I'm sure many voted for him because they thought Clinton was as bad or worse.
Edited by dr wu23 - March 25 2018 at 12:54
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: March 25 2018 at 13:47 |
yeah.. one can understand the need some felt for change.. poor people. Thinking the system (the same system they created by putting a party in charge that has little clue how to govern and NO care about them.. only their corporate donors) is broken.. the infamous DC swamp.. and change would be electing an outsider with no experience, knowledge, or temperament or with any past history caring about anyone or anything other himself would be a good President
yeah everyone hates Politicans like Hillary...so perhaps they'll learn the same lesson others do when they hire a gas station attendant to come wire their home because they they think Electricians are scum of the earth because the last they had were raiding their wive's panty drawers, taking naps in their beds during break time and leaving a mess as they left early to go hit the bars before calling it a day umm hmmm.
Edited by micky - March 25 2018 at 13:51
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20623
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Posted: March 25 2018 at 13:59 |
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^ LOL.....that about sums it up
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin
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Man With Hat
Collaborator
Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team
Joined: March 12 2005
Location: Neurotica
Status: Offline
Points: 166178
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Posted: March 25 2018 at 14:05 |
rogerthat wrote:
@Atavachron
As an outsider and based more on my reading of the behaviour of the 'disgruntled with establishment' coalition, I bet they will still vote for Trump cuz "can't stand the corrupt Democrats". Or some might vote for Gary Johnson or whoever stands on the Libertarian Party ticket in 2020 but that candidate will likely still get too few votes to move the needle (and may end up spoiling the Democrat vote by offering an acceptable non-Democrat alternative). |
sorry for the broad brush, but the libertarian party should never be considered an acceptable solution for anyone on the left.
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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: March 25 2018 at 14:21 |
oh well... the great decline of America is not that we are becoming more diverse, or less religious. The plague is partisanship... killing the ability to think and vote responsibly... simply because Trump had an R next to his name people voted (willingly) voted for someone who didn't even have the qualifications or temperament to be elected city dog catcher.
I'll be curious to see where we go in the years to come Doc.. for years it has been Republicans demonizing Democrats as the next worst thing to the Devil themselves... now that Trump has fully inflamed and alienated a great many.. I suspect the hate and vitriol will be returned with interest. Further leading to the system being broken. Trump was a bad choice and an irresponsible choice for many reasons.. but big picture might be the worst.. he and the hatred and division he stoked in his followers in teh campaign but forgot to leave behind as he became President is tearing this country apart and the two parties further apart... even less chance for compromise as finally the left is learning to hate the right as much as use that to mobilize and motivate voters as the right has (successsfully of course) for years.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10617
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Posted: March 25 2018 at 15:34 |
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People who think this country is divided now obviously weren't around in the late 60s and early 70s. The country was far more divided then. Violent riots and bombings were a daily occurrence. Entire neighborhoods in many big cities were burnt to the ground.
Today's political discourse is still mild in comparison.
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: March 25 2018 at 15:40 |
true that... obviously not that far.. but heading there perhaps... I don't think we are too long before the Democratic Party reprises Chicago again. Perhaps about 2 years haha. It isn't just left v. Right... but centrist v. progressive AND centrist v. Trumpism. A 4 way split between both parties that.. well.. I don't think we've seen that level of division in our past.
However one can realistically see it coming.. easily in fact
Edited by micky - March 25 2018 at 15:41
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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