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siLLy puPPy 
Special Collaborator
PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic
Joined: October 05 2013
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Points: 15252
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 Posted: January 23 2018 at 19:16 |
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^ not ruffled by the term. I was just suggesting that PFM wasn't second tier because they were one of the most successful bands of the day. But whatever! It's just a poll after all. BTW, i like every band on this list. Focus isn't my favorite but the rest are A-ok :) Don't have a favorite
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 https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
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AFlowerKingCrimson
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Posted: January 23 2018 at 19:39 |
 siLLy puPPy wrote:
^ not ruffled by the term. I was just suggesting that PFM wasn't second tier because they were one of the most successful bands of the day. But whatever! It's just a poll after all. BTW, i like every band on this list. Focus isn't my favorite but the rest are A-ok :) Don't have a favorite |
In Italy they were. In the US Nektar were probably more well known(as were a few others on here) and they only have three votes. Sure, PFM did crack the US charts but so did Focus, Renaissance, Nektar and maybe some of the others. In fact those three bands all had albums that charted higher than PFM in the US but yeah whatever. 
Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - January 23 2018 at 19:50
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siLLy puPPy
Special Collaborator
PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic
Joined: October 05 2013
Location: SFcaUsA
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Points: 15252
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Posted: January 23 2018 at 21:36 |
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^ that is interesting actually. I wasn't around to experience prog in its heyday so the context of the band's popularity as relative to how they are perceived today is interesting actually. I know Pink Floyd, Yes and ELP were popular but who else actually was? In real prog terms that is (not The Who, Led Zep or any other prog related)
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https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
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kenethlevine
Special Collaborator
Prog-Folk Team
Joined: December 06 2006
Location: New England
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Points: 8952
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Posted: January 23 2018 at 22:15 |
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Strawbs had 7 straight albums on Billboard in the US, popularity being about the same level as Gentle Giant, while they had 5 chart albums in the UK, one of which reached #2. On progarchives, their 2017 release, which is classic sounding yet fresh, has just 3 reviews.
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Mortte
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 11 2016
Location: Finland
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Points: 5538
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Posted: January 23 2018 at 23:28 |
siLLy puPPy wrote:
^ that is interesting actually. I wasn't around to experience prog in its heyday so the context of the band's popularity as relative to how they are perceived today is interesting actually. I know Pink Floyd, Yes and ELP were popular but who else actually was? In real prog terms that is (not The Who, Led Zep or any other prog related) |
According to BBC document ten most popular prog bands in order has been: Pink Floyd, Moody Blues, Genesis, Jethro Tull, Yes, ELP, Rush, King Crimson, Hawkwind & Camel. To me it suprises a little that Jethro has sold more albums than Yes, although I knew Jethro was really popular in the states in the seventies.
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Stool Man
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Posted: January 24 2018 at 07:06 |
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Caravan & Focus & Gong equally for me.
For the poll, I imagined how each band might continue into the future, and thus Gong is the one.
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rotten hound of the burnie crew
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
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Points: 9869
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Posted: January 24 2018 at 08:32 |
AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:
Ok, folks. Here it goes. Why were Renaissance and PFM included? You guys don't consider them to be second tier. Ok, fine. Everyone has their own interpretation of things. Why are Focus on here? They had one of the biggest prog hits with "hocus pocus." Also, why didn't I include Gentle Giant, Camel or VDGG aren't they considered second tier also? Yes, but in my mind those bands are a bit ahead of most of the others IN MY OPINION. Based on my years of research in prog the first tier bands are the most popular and over all most respected(yes some of these bands are just as good at times but just over all weren't or aren't quite as well known). Typically the first tier is King Crimson, Yes, Genesis, ELP, Pink Floyd, Jethro Tull and maybe Rush and the Moody Blues and maybe one or two others. This is not a science it's based on what I have come to understand who the biggest prog bands are. Also, being that I live in the US my opinion will reflect that. Again do you I really have to go on about how this poll represents my opinion? Everyone has their own interpretation and opinion of things. OK?
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As a huge Renaissance fan (and I do like PFM/Focus for that matter), I agree with more or less everything you wrote there. There's an interview up on youtube from the 1979 where the RJ himself jokes with Annie Haslam and Jon Camp as to whether they get to play real theaters (like Eastman Theater, Rochester where they were about to perform) or pretend-theaters. So, rather, I don't understand how they can possibly put in the same tier as Yes, Genesis, ELP or Tull. No way!
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Lewian
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 09 2015
Location: Italy
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Posted: January 24 2018 at 12:37 |
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For all the distracting discussion about "second tier", this is actually a pretty pleasant poll in the sense that the votes are distributed quite nicely (I had no idea who'd win this and a few more voters may easily change the ranking quite a bit) and there's enough quality music from these bands for everyone on this site to enjoy.
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micky
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Posted: January 27 2018 at 11:47 |
nice poll.... and outside of Eloy (and U.K) and a few others which sort of sticks out to me as being a division or two over ranked here.. a very good sampling of 2nd tier bands... the first tier of course being the Yes/ELP/KC/Floyd/Dull/Genesis first tier/Mount Rushmore of prog
what you have can be paired down into a very plausible tier 2, but with one major exception and one lesser one. Magma and perhaps VDGG. Tier 2 is what we often called the cult favs. As good, or nearly as good as the tier 1's but just that something missing or simply too foreign to do what the tier 1 did... take prog to the masses and become the faces of prog.. not simply for the fans.. but to those who aren't fans.
of the choices... PFM... had it all.. talent, eclectic music that could both sooth and slay, longevity with strings of classic 5 star albums and still killing it into the new century... if not for the language.. thus lack of larger exposure and influence.. a clear tier 1 talent.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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**xyzzy**
Forum Newbie
Joined: June 07 2017
Location: US
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Points: 8
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Posted: January 27 2018 at 17:47 |
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I cannot vote in this poll, but if I could:
UK
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AFlowerKingCrimson
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Joined: October 02 2016
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Posted: January 27 2018 at 18:20 |
siLLy puPPy wrote:
^ that is interesting actually. I wasn't around to experience prog in its heyday so the context of the band's popularity as relative to how they are perceived today is interesting actually. I know Pink Floyd, Yes and ELP were popular but who else actually was? In real prog terms that is (not The Who, Led Zep or any other prog related) |
I've always been interested in charts and statistics and things like that. Who else was? Well, Gentle Giant were well known as a cult band and of course in prog circles and King Crimson also(but even more so). Genesis were actually right there along side them but then started to climb the charts and over took them especially after PG left. Of course certain bands were more popular than others in certain areas. Genesis were most well known in the northeastern part of the US(during the PG era)and the band Renaissance had a strong following in upstate NY of all places. Then of course Jethro Tull were always popular or at least starting with Benefit and especially after Aqualung. You hit the nail on the head with Floyd, Yes and ELP though. Bubbling just under them would be KC, Genesis and JT if you count them and then a little later Kansas and Rush. But it doesn't really matter much anymore these days because most people(or at least most younger people) who get into prog now seem to get into it through metal or prog metal with bands like Opeth and dozens of others.
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AFlowerKingCrimson
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Joined: October 02 2016
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Points: 18278
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Posted: January 27 2018 at 18:25 |
Mortte wrote:
siLLy puPPy wrote:
^ that is interesting actually. I wasn't around to experience prog in its heyday so the context of the band's popularity as relative to how they are perceived today is interesting actually. I know Pink Floyd, Yes and ELP were popular but who else actually was? In real prog terms that is (not The Who, Led Zep or any other prog related) |
According to BBC document ten most popular prog bands in order has been: Pink Floyd, Moody Blues, Genesis, Jethro Tull, Yes, ELP, Rush, King Crimson, Hawkwind & Camel. To me it suprises a little that Jethro has sold more albums than Yes, although I knew Jethro was really popular in the states in the seventies. |
That's from a UK perspective though. IN the US Yes would rank higher than Genesis(but only as a prog band)and Camel and Hawkwind would barely make the prog radar in the US except among the real hardcore fans. For Jethro Tull I think their UK and worldwide sales are a bit higher than Yes but in the US I think Yes have probably sold as many if not more albums. Both bands used to play at Madison Square Garden so it's kind of splitting hairs anyway. Only thing is that at one point Yes held the record for most sold out shows at MSG and not just for prog but that includes any band(even Led Zeppelin). Of course that record has been broken many times over since by(and I'm guessing here) the likes of Grateful Dead, Billy Joel, Bruce, Elton etc.
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presdoug
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Joined: January 24 2010
Location: Canada
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Points: 8618
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Posted: January 27 2018 at 19:16 |
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Must confess, I don't like seeing my favourite band in bottom position. I have heard all of the bands listed in this poll in detail, and none of them is in Triumvirat's league, in my books.
If music is a universal language, Triumvirat are a perfect example of why and how. Though many years past, they cracked the top 50 and then the top 30 in America with their albums. One of the first German bands to ever do so.
They went to the top 4 position in popularity in Brazil, where they were definitely "one tier" in terms of popularity there.
Also scored a Number One album in Portugal in 1976.
Yes, I know, it was years ago, but I am not the only one that still reveres them so much.
youtube Triumvirat albums have tens of thousands, even hundreds of thousands of viewings, with the comments below sometimes approaching over 100.
When there was a newsletter on the old, now static, Triumvirat website, it had subscribers from literally every corner of the world.
How's that for a band that split in 1980?
Anyway, I know I am obsessional in a way about them, so please bear with me. It is my way.
Edited by presdoug - January 27 2018 at 20:22
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
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Points: 9869
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Posted: January 27 2018 at 20:14 |
AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:
siLLy puPPy wrote:
^ that is interesting actually. I wasn't around to experience prog in its heyday so the context of the band's popularity as relative to how they are perceived today is interesting actually. I know Pink Floyd, Yes and ELP were popular but who else actually was? In real prog terms that is (not The Who, Led Zep or any other prog related) |
I've always been interested in charts and statistics and things like that. Who else was? Well, Gentle Giant were well known as a cult band and of course in prog circles and King Crimson also(but even more so). Genesis were actually right there along side them but then started to climb the charts and over took them especially after PG left. Of course certain bands were more popular than others in certain areas. Genesis were most well known in the northeastern part of the US(during the PG era)and the band Renaissance had a strong following in upstate NY of all places. Then of course Jethro Tull were always popular or at least starting with Benefit and especially after Aqualung. You hit the nail on the head with Floyd, Yes and ELP though. Bubbling just under them would be KC, Genesis and JT if you count them and then a little later Kansas and Rush. But it doesn't really matter much anymore these days because most people(or at least most younger people) who get into prog now seem to get into it through metal or prog metal with bands like Opeth and dozens of others. |
In terms of success, Gentle Giant were no more successful than Renaissance and never had a hit single (albeit that was a pop song) either. Rather, the weight of their work has given them a measure of influence Renaissance cannot lay claim to. Genesis had reached around Ren's level of charting success in the US by the time of Lamb and with Trick of the Tail got to 31. Another thing is Genesis went gold with some of their albums in US which Renaissance failed to achieve. And of course, Genesis were hugely successful in the UK where Renaissance had less success than in the US. Yeah, Yes, Floyd and ELP in the top tier and KC, Genesis, JT a rung below. GG and VDGG lacked commercial success but commanded influence. The bands in your poll largely lack both influence and success.
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The Dark Elf
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Posted: January 27 2018 at 21:10 |
rogerthat wrote:
Yeah, Yes, Floyd and ELP in the top tier and KC, Genesis, JT a rung below. GG and VDGG lacked commercial success but commanded influence. The bands in your poll largely lack both influence and success. |
Actually, Tull sold a lot more albums than ELP did in the 70s. People tend to forget ELP never had a platinum selling album or a #1 in the U.S., whereas Tull's Aqualung went 3x platinum, and even M.U. their first greatest hits album also went platinum. TAAB and A Passion Play also went to #1 in the States.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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The.Crimson.King
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Joined: March 29 2013
Location: WA
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Posted: January 27 2018 at 22:21 |
The Dark Elf wrote:
Actually, Tull sold a lot more albums than ELP did in the 70s. People tend to forget ELP never had a platinum selling album or a #1 in the U.S., whereas Tull's Aqualung went 3x platinum, and even M.U. their first greatest hits album also went platinum. TAAB and A Passion Play also went to #1 in the States. |
While they both had massive 1969-70 radio hits in Living in the Past & Lucky Man, back in the 70's in the SF bay area, Tull was much bigger than ELP. I think it was because Tull's audience included not only prog fans, but also hard rock fans in a way ELP could never reach. Tull also regularly toured through the bay area every single year from '70 to '79 (except '74) whereas ELP rarely came through ('71, '72 and '77)...
Edited by The.Crimson.King - January 27 2018 at 22:23
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Mortte
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Posted: January 27 2018 at 22:59 |
rogerthat wrote:
In terms of success, Gentle Giant were no more successful than Renaissance and never had a hit single (albeit that was a pop song) either. Rather, the weight of their work has given them a measure of influence Renaissance cannot lay claim to. Genesis had reached around Ren's level of charting success in the US by the time of Lamb and with Trick of the Tail got to 31. Another thing is Genesis went gold with some of their albums in US which Renaissance failed to achieve. And of course, Genesis were hugely successful in the UK where Renaissance had less success than in the US. Yeah, Yes, Floyd and ELP in the top tier and KC, Genesis, JT a rung below. GG and VDGG lacked commercial success but commanded influence. The bands in your poll largely lack both influence and success. |
If I understand right, what you mean about influence, I totally disagree with you. I think Caravan, Renaissance, Gong and Strawbs have been much more influental bands than Gentle Giant. I know Gentle Giant members were sour because they didnīt get at least the commercial succees they though they deserved then. I have never heard anything really great about Gentle Giant music and I understand fully, why they havenīt got as much success as for example Pink Floyd, Genesis, Jethro Tull and Yes. Yes, I think Gentle Giant influenced a lot neoprog, but I donīt like neoprog at all. I think those bands I mentioned developed prog into much greater direction. This is of course just my opinion and people here has right to love Gentle Giant as much as they want, itīs nothing away from me.
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Icarium
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Posted: January 28 2018 at 01:18 |
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Gentle Giant was an influence on Nik Kershaw and Tears for Fears
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Frenetic Zetetic
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Posted: January 28 2018 at 03:18 |
The.Crimson.King wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:
Actually, Tull sold a lot more albums than ELP did in the 70s. People tend to forget ELP never had a platinum selling album or a #1 in the U.S., whereas Tull's Aqualung went 3x platinum, and even M.U. their first greatest hits album also went platinum. TAAB and A Passion Play also went to #1 in the States. |
While they both had massive 1969-70 radio hits in Living in the Past & Lucky Man, back in the 70's in the SF bay area, Tull was much bigger than ELP. I think it was because Tull's audience included not only prog fans, but also hard rock fans in a way ELP could never reach. Tull also regularly toured through the bay area every single year from '70 to '79 (except '74) whereas ELP rarely came through ('71, '72 and '77)...
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I think a LOT of people - not just prog fans - forget how successful and how large of an appeal Tull had/still has. Didn't they erroneously win a metal award over Metallica in the late 80's? Their reach was undeniable. While tons of people know who YES and GENESIS are, I'd be willing to be more of them actually heard Tull over those two.
Mortte wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
In terms of success, Gentle Giant were no more successful than Renaissance and never had a hit single (albeit that was a pop song) either. Rather, the weight of their work has given them a measure of influence Renaissance cannot lay claim to. Genesis had reached around Ren's level of charting success in the US by the time of Lamb and with Trick of the Tail got to 31. Another thing is Genesis went gold with some of their albums in US which Renaissance failed to achieve. And of course, Genesis were hugely successful in the UK where Renaissance had less success than in the US. Yeah, Yes, Floyd and ELP in the top tier and KC, Genesis, JT a rung below. GG and VDGG lacked commercial success but commanded influence. The bands in your poll largely lack both influence and success. |
If I understand right, what you mean about influence, I totally disagree with you. I think Caravan, Renaissance, Gong and Strawbs have been much more influental bands than Gentle Giant. I know Gentle Giant members were sour because they didnīt get at least the commercial succees they though they deserved then. I have never heard anything really great about Gentle Giant music and I understand fully, why they havenīt got as much success as for example Pink Floyd, Genesis, Jethro Tull and Yes. Yes, I think Gentle Giant influenced a lot neoprog, but I donīt like neoprog at all. I think those bands I mentioned developed prog into much greater direction. This is of course just my opinion and people here has right to love Gentle Giant as much as they want, itīs nothing away from me. |
This is exactly why GG is my personal favorite band (and by proxy, prog rock band) of all time. They're kind of still an anomaly in terms of who they inspire, despite having, as the next poster mentions, hooked some serious up and comer from the 80's (Tears for Fears, etc).
While they never charted or reached the level of commercial success (not even the same ballpark) as Yes, Genesis, etc - Derek did go on to become a record executive and signed some of the biggest selling bands of the 80's (Bon Jovi, Cinderella, dude even signed Dream Theater and Pantera! FTW!); in my humble opinion THAT'S a level of success in itself, something tangential to a traditional path in the music business, just like Gentle Giant's existence itself was! Personal opinion, of course.
Edited by Frenetic Zetetic - January 28 2018 at 03:19
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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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Mortte
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Posted: January 28 2018 at 04:13 |
Frenetic Zetetic wrote:
I think a LOT of people - not just prog fans - forget how successful and how large of an appeal Tull had/still has. Didn't they erroneously win a metal award over Metallica in the late 80's? Their reach was undeniable. While tons of people know who YES and GENESIS are, I'd be willing to be more of them actually heard Tull over those two. |
Agree fully! Jethro is to me also much greater than Genesis or Yes.
Frenetic Zetetic wrote:
This is exactly why GG is my personal favorite band (and by proxy, prog rock band) of all time. They're kind of still an anomaly in terms of who they inspire, despite having, as the next poster mentions, hooked some serious up and comer from the 80's (Tears for Fears, etc).
While they never charted or reached the level of commercial success (not even the same ballpark) as Yes, Genesis, etc - Derek did go on to become a record executive and signed some of the biggest selling bands of the 80's (Bon Jovi, Cinderella, dude even signed Dream Theater and Pantera! FTW!); in my humble opinion THAT'S a level of success in itself, something tangential to a traditional path in the music business, just like Gentle Giant's existence itself was! Personal opinion, of course. |
Agree again. I think the massive popularity of GG in todayīs proglisteners also prove that. I personally donīt like any of those bands you mention, so this also increase my understanding, why GG has never hit me.
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Second tier bands
