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Topic ClosedSecond tier bands
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Poll Question: Which of these "second tier" bands is your favorite
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
10 [11.90%]
8 [9.52%]
10 [11.90%]
10 [11.90%]
4 [4.76%]
11 [13.10%]
14 [16.67%]
5 [5.95%]
2 [2.38%]
10 [11.90%]
This topic is closed, no new votes accepted

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rogerthat View Drop Down
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Points: 9869 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2018 at 08:32
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Ok, folks. Here it goes. Why were Renaissance and PFM included? You guys don't consider them to be second tier. Ok, fine. Everyone has their own interpretation of things. Why are Focus on here? They had one of the biggest prog hits with "hocus pocus." Also, why didn't I include Gentle Giant, Camel or VDGG aren't they considered second tier also? Yes, but in my mind those bands are a bit ahead of most of the others IN MY OPINION. Based on my years of research in prog the first tier bands are the most popular and over all most respected(yes some of these bands are just as good at times but just over all weren't or aren't quite as well known). Typically the first tier is King Crimson, Yes, Genesis, ELP, Pink Floyd, Jethro Tull and maybe Rush and the Moody Blues and maybe one or two others. This is not a science it's based on what I have come to understand who the biggest prog bands are. Also, being that I live in the US my opinion will reflect that. Again do you I really have to go on about how this poll represents my opinion? Everyone has their own interpretation and opinion of things. OK? 

As a huge Renaissance fan (and I do like PFM/Focus for that matter), I agree with more or less everything you wrote there.  There's an interview up on youtube from the 1979 where the RJ himself jokes with Annie Haslam and Jon Camp as to whether they get to play real theaters (like Eastman Theater, Rochester where they were about to perform) or pretend-theaters.  So, rather, I don't understand how they can possibly put in the same tier as Yes, Genesis, ELP or Tull.  No way!
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Points: 2689 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2018 at 07:06
Caravan & Focus & Gong equally for me.

For the poll, I imagined how each band might continue into the future, and thus Gong is the one.
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Points: 5538 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2018 at 23:28
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

^ that is interesting actually. I wasn't around to experience prog in its heyday so the context of the band's popularity as relative to how they are perceived today is interesting actually. I know Pink Floyd, Yes and ELP were popular but who else actually was? In real prog terms that is (not The Who, Led Zep or any other prog related)
According to BBC document ten most popular prog bands in order has been: Pink Floyd, Moody Blues, Genesis, Jethro Tull, Yes, ELP, Rush, King Crimson, Hawkwind & Camel. To me it suprises a little that Jethro has sold more albums than Yes, although I knew Jethro was really popular in the states in the seventies.
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Points: 9093 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2018 at 22:15
Strawbs had 7 straight albums on Billboard in the US, popularity being about the same level as Gentle Giant, while they had 5 chart albums in the UK, one of which reached #2.  On progarchives, their 2017 release, which is classic sounding yet fresh, has just 3 reviews.
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Points: 15346 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2018 at 21:36
^ that is interesting actually. I wasn't around to experience prog in its heyday so the context of the band's popularity as relative to how they are perceived today is interesting actually. I know Pink Floyd, Yes and ELP were popular but who else actually was? In real prog terms that is (not The Who, Led Zep or any other prog related)

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Points: 18974 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2018 at 19:39
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

^ not ruffled by the term. I was just suggesting that PFM wasn't second tier because they were one of the most successful bands of the day. But whatever! It's just a poll after all. BTW, i like every band on this list. Focus isn't my favorite but the rest are A-ok :) Don't have a favorite

In Italy they were. In the US Nektar were probably more well known(as were a few others on here) and they only have three votes. Sure, PFM did crack the US charts but so did Focus, Renaissance, Nektar and maybe some of the others. In fact those three bands all had albums that charted higher than PFM in the US but yeah whatever. Wink


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - January 23 2018 at 19:50
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Points: 15346 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2018 at 19:16
^ not ruffled by the term. I was just suggesting that PFM wasn't second tier because they were one of the most successful bands of the day. But whatever! It's just a poll after all. BTW, i like every band on this list. Focus isn't my favorite but the rest are A-ok :) Don't have a favorite

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Points: 18974 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2018 at 15:21
Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

as a fan of mostly "second tier" bands, I don't get ruffled by the categorization.  Suffice to say most of my favorites struggled commercially, and get short shrift on the prog "hit parade" as well.  So be it, they are still my faves, and I'm glad when they get discussed at all.

Finally someone who gets it. I can tell by your statement that you know I wasn't using "second tier" as some kind of derogative or patronizing way as others on here have suggested. I'm a fan of most of these bands myself and don't think of them as playing second fiddle or being "bench warmer" kind of bands at all. It's just that when you mention prog to someone who only has a passing familiarity with the genre it is unlikely they will mention one of these bands. 
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Points: 1092 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2018 at 14:10
Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

Triumvirat at bottom place? Come on, people!


There's nothing wrong with Triumvirat but much prefer others listed in that list.  Wink
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Points: 8771 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2018 at 12:54
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

^ from Wikipedia (they are right about this one :)

Premiata Forneria Marconi (PFM) (translation: Award-winning Marconi Bakery) is an Italian progressive rock band. PFM were the first Italian group to have success abroad, entering both the British and American charts. Between 1973 and 1977 they released five albums with English lyrics. They also had several successful European and American tours, playing at the popular Reading Festival in England and on a very popular national television program in the United States.

PFM introduced new sounds, such as the synthesizer, to the Italian musical world. They were also among the first to combine symphonic classical and traditional Italian musical influences in a Rock music context. Such innovations and their longevity have earned PFM a place among the most important bands in the Progressive rock genre.

Premiata Forneria Marconi - Wikipedia



They also did well in my native Canada ( btw Cook was mainly recorded in Toronto)
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Points: 8771 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2018 at 12:52
Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

Triumvirat at bottom place? Come on, people!
Where's Ivan when you need him?
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Points: 4462 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2018 at 11:06
 I voted for Renaissance. i I have to admit I haven't heard every band on the list. 
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Points: 5538 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2018 at 10:49
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

^ but not all legendary statuses are based on chart positions of album sales. They were revolutionary in musical compositions and quite successful for a prog band of their day. I wouldn't call that second tier but i still haven't gotten a definition of what that means in context to this list. Gong and Renaissance are quite popular as well.

To me second tier bands would be like Starcastle or something. Maybe i'm looking too much into this but it just seems that callling PFM a second tier band is a stretch. If we look at PA's top 250 albums then they have 3 albums in the top 100. That seems pretty darn good to me :)
Not listened PFM much, but what I was, I didnīt find their music very revolutionary comparing the other prog of same time. I think Caravan, Strawbs, Gong and Renaissance are much greater. But I promise to listen them more and I will tell you if I have to change my opinion!Wink
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Points: 9093 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2018 at 10:48
as a fan of mostly "second tier" bands, I don't get ruffled by the categorization.  Suffice to say most of my favorites struggled commercially, and get short shrift on the prog "hit parade" as well.  So be it, they are still my faves, and I'm glad when they get discussed at all.
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Points: 18974 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2018 at 09:57
Wink
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Points: 15346 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2018 at 09:55
Aye, capn

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Points: 18974 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2018 at 09:53
Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

^To me Starcastle would be a third or fourth tier band...

;)

Yep. Probably third tier even though I did consider adding them here. As for the PFM comments, I'm not going to keep repeating myself here. Please see my previous post(the one that starts with "OK, folks") and then start your own damn poll and label bands however you want. LOL


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - January 23 2018 at 09:56
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dr wu23 View Drop Down
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Points: 20671 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2018 at 09:01
^To me Starcastle would be a third or fourth tier band...

;)
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Points: 15346 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2018 at 07:40
^ but not all legendary statuses are based on chart positions of album sales. They were revolutionary in musical compositions and quite successful for a prog band of their day. I wouldn't call that second tier but i still haven't gotten a definition of what that means in context to this list. Gong and Renaissance are quite popular as well.

To me second tier bands would be like Starcastle or something. Maybe i'm looking too much into this but it just seems that callling PFM a second tier band is a stretch. If we look at PA's top 250 albums then they have 3 albums in the top 100. That seems pretty darn good to me :)

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Points: 5538 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2018 at 07:13
^When watching their chart positions from the same sites, only "Photos Of Ghosts" has been 180 position in Bilboard 200 & Cook 154 position in same list. I think Yes, Genesis, Pink Floyd and ELP have done a lot better. They released also one Wigwam album in the US 1970, then virgin signed it in 1975, but still I am not really saying Wigwam got international success.
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