The Renaissance Zone |
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2005 Location: Olympus Mons Status: Offline Points: 15916 |
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Shame, Camp is such a great bassist. Right off the bat on Prologue, and even the ‘abysmal’ (I happen to like it a lot !!) Time Line, Camp was up there with the best of ‘em. Man, I love Camera Camera. It blew me away at the very first listen (like most of their albums). My first taste of this wonderful band was around ‘91 - Novella. The gatefold cover was fancy and the long track timings drew me in immediately. I did not regret the discovery !!
Edited by Tom Ozric - October 22 2017 at 00:08 |
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
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Great bassist indeed. But in a way, it is not a surprise because he and Annie were the most extrovert of the classic line up and always seemed to have a sort of competition going on. Kind of a Don Dokken-George Lynch dynamic except Camp was playing bass, not electric guitar in the shred era. So he could get away with it as long as Annie, inexplicably, didn't assert herself. She seems to have sworn "Never again" after the 80s. I cannot in all honesty say it is for the better (for my taste) and I am not sure she gave free rein to Dunford either on Tuscany or Grandine Il Vento. But it's worked; three of the Grandine songs have become concert staples.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
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I mean, if you take Metallica, Hammett is happy letting Hetfield have all the limelight as long as he gets to play enough leads. It's not that Hetfield is much more talented than Hammett as a musician but he is doing vocals plus rhythm guitar and has a dominating personality so somebody else stealing the spotlight from him won't work. It's why Mustaine did not last long in Metallica. Generally, you can't have two dominating personalities in a band; one will have to cede ground to the other or both will have to compromise and decide to collaborate like Bon Scott and the Young brothers.
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2005 Location: Olympus Mons Status: Offline Points: 15916 |
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Ha !! Mustaine and Hetfield eh ? Talk about a clash of egos. Gimme Megadeth over Metallica any day.
Back on track now : Day Of The Dreamer Love this exquisite piece of music. |
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
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Same here. Rust in Peace!
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2005 Location: Olympus Mons Status: Offline Points: 15916 |
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^ Classic !!
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kenethlevine
Special Collaborator Prog-Folk Team Joined: December 06 2006 Location: New England Status: Offline Points: 8950 |
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indeed
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kenethlevine
Special Collaborator Prog-Folk Team Joined: December 06 2006 Location: New England Status: Offline Points: 8950 |
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the show at the Keswick is tomorrow night and I can't wait!
It not only will have the orchestra but it's the one they will film for the DVD. I was reviewing the stunning Park West performance from 1983 and was wondering, probably a question for Rogerthat, but who actually came up with the vocalise? Did she totally improvise it or did she practice it as heard, and did she come up with it on her own. I still shake my head that this talent was never fully appreciated, or perhaps it was, by anyone who can appreciate it, and that's the extent of it
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
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Annie has said in interviews that she had a big role to play in the vocal arrangements. So this seems to suggest she came up with the vocal solos of her own for the most part. In other tracks, she was mostly mimicking the actual music composed for orchestra in the studio recording but this was not possible on Ashes are burning as it's a guitar solo. So she took a different approach. I think she built up the vocal solo on Ashes up to the culmination that was Park West '83. The genesis probably lay in the Albert Hall performance of Ashes are burning where she sort of does that rapid alternation but only three times or so before sustaining the E6 and closing the vocalise section. She MAY have done that in an older performance; there is no way to tell because no two Ashes are burning vocal solos are the same which means many that went unrecorded have been forever lost without a trace. But back to the point, if we come to Boardwalk '79, the vocal solo is pretty close to Park West. In some ways, this solo is even better than Park West because the crescendo is almost identical while for the rest of it, she sings almost as if in a trance, using a lot of vibrato to add a lot of flavour to the vocalise. I guess Park West just sounds more intense because of the more rock-like instrumental set up. Plus, Park West surfaced first on the interwebs so that's stuck in everyone's mind as the definitive Annie Haslam vocalise. Had Boardwalk turned up first, who knows, people may have had a different view. As for appreciation of talent, see, the problem is Annie operates in a genre which tends to attract people who appreciate great instrumentation rather than great vocals. So people just kind of overlook her work; plus, people check out the studio albums rather than random live performances on youtube. If they do get there, her horrendous outfit and the 80s instrumentation will dissuade a lot of people from ever getting to the point where she unleashes the magic.
Edited by rogerthat - October 26 2017 at 20:14 |
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
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To just explain in short why the thing she does at 4:50 in the Park west performance of Ashes is incredible, just try singing at the very top of your range. You won't be able to hang around for too long before you run out of breath. Slipping into a single note and sustaining it is easier than trying to actually sing, like, different notes up there. Annie rapidly (and I mean really rapidly, like a guitar shred) alternates E6 and F#6 like it was nothing. And she does it for something like 10 seconds without losing breath. That's just beyond words. Not to raise the sexist bogey, but I bet if a male singer did that, he would self promote himself shamelessly and people would lap it up too. People just find it hard to take a woman's talent seriously, sorry to say so. Not intended for the Renaissance fans here, who obviously do appreciate Annie's amazing talent.
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kenethlevine
Special Collaborator Prog-Folk Team Joined: December 06 2006 Location: New England Status: Offline Points: 8950 |
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very well put, thanks for that. I think that, as an unabashed fan of Annie (in Renaissance), I have to say that the reason I prefer the Park West performance over Boardwalk '79 is that you can see her clearly, whereas in Boardwalk I think the visual cut out, didn't it? I love watching her unleashing with abandon, which adds quite a bit to the experience over just the audio. Yeah the outfit is out there, but it's the performance!
Edit - just looked again at Boardwalk...agreed that in some ways it surpasses Park West. But the sound/video quality on Park West and the greater focus on Annie makes it superior for me Edited by kenethlevine - October 26 2017 at 21:32 |
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
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Yeah, the video/audio quality does help. My point was more that there are actually other performances of the track which are more or less as good. Who knows where else she performed it in the 80s (and of which there are no recordings).
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kenethlevine
Special Collaborator Prog-Folk Team Joined: December 06 2006 Location: New England Status: Offline Points: 8950 |
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I did see them in April 1982 in Ottawa and they definitely did Ashes. It may well have been the Boardwalk/Park West Ashes, and I know my college mates were all raving about it afterwards. It was a fantastic show with a few songs from Camera Camera and a few from ASFAS. As we have noted, the band's live performances certainly didn't suffer even when record sales were plummeting
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
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So..Another thing I love about the Park West performance is initially the audience looks grumpy (it had not been a great show up to that point). But when she goes for the high G at around 3:50 (unable to post the link), they start jumping up like kids in excitement and when she does that guitar solo thing at 4:50 they just go wild. Annie at her best can toy with the audience just standing there and singing into the mic, no running around, no "come on Chicago" nothing. |
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iluvmarillion
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 09 2010 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 3242 |
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What is it you like about Camera Camera? My copy of the vinyl finished up in the rubbish bin.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
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Hope you enjoyed the Keswick show, Ken. They have posted stills from the show on facebook and even video of their Carpet performance from the Ridgefield show. I have never seen Annie so excited. She goofed up the song name while introducing but made a hilarious joke out of it. Sounded in great voice too. When the orchestra sat down, she did a sort of joke operatic vocalise... turned away from the mic!
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20604 |
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Edited by SteveG - October 28 2017 at 09:17 |
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This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
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kenethlevine
Special Collaborator Prog-Folk Team Joined: December 06 2006 Location: New England Status: Offline Points: 8950 |
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The show was fantastic and the orchestra brilliant.
Here is the set list as I remember it but may be slightly off in order Prologue Trip to the Fair Then orchestra appears Carpet of the Sun At the Harbour Grandine Il Vento Symphony of Light Kalynda Island Mother Russia Song for all Seasons Orchestra and band departs, only band returns Ashes are Burning So 4 songs that have not been part of the regular live set for years. I really had goosebumps when they did Kalynda. It was my favourite from Azure D’Or and one of the few bright spots of the album. She actually referred to it as a beautiful song written by Jon Camp. Such class The orchestra really brought out the brilliance of the Mother Russia/Song for all Seasons combo. Annie deferred to Mark Lambert’s guitar shredding at the end of Ashes but she didn’t skimp on much else. U While the orchestra only had about 10 members, they probably played 30 instruments between them. Loved the oboe and flute especially. Can’t wait for the DVD! |
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kenethlevine
Special Collaborator Prog-Folk Team Joined: December 06 2006 Location: New England Status: Offline Points: 8950 |
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I should mention Annie was overcome a few times with emotion, the first time
possibly being after the first of probably 5 standing ovations spread throughout the show. |
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
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Ken, how was Island? I am curious as to how Annie sounded on the song she had performed for her Renaissance audition.
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