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rogerthat View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 06 2017 at 18:49
Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

^that's great news!  Somehow people have dug down deep and the DVD/concerts will be a reality

Yes, they have done it!  This was touch and go compared to the previous campaigns but they made it.  I have to say here that Annie has achieved all the things she set out to in the 'comeback'.  She has been saying for years that they should do a concert with orchestra again.  That box is about to be checked.  Plus, a tour of Europe and also of Brazil, both of which she has done now. At the time of the release of the 2011 concert DVD, I had a very brief chat with her on the Ren FB page and she said "Let's go to India, let's go to Brazil" when I said I was from India and had very little hope of seeing her live.  I liked the thought but parked it as positivity spin.  I should have known better!  She has followed through on these dreams in spite of great constraints.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 06 2017 at 20:02
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

^that's great news!  Somehow people have dug down deep and the DVD/concerts will be a reality

Yes, they have done it!  This was touch and go compared to the previous campaigns but they made it.  I have to say here that Annie has achieved all the things she set out to in the 'comeback'.  She has been saying for years that they should do a concert with orchestra again.  That box is about to be checked.  Plus, a tour of Europe and also of Brazil, both of which she has done now. At the time of the release of the 2011 concert DVD, I had a very brief chat with her on the Ren FB page and she said "Let's go to India, let's go to Brazil" when I said I was from India and had very little hope of seeing her live.  I liked the thought but parked it as positivity spin.  I should have known better!  She has followed through on these dreams in spite of great constraints.

She and the band should be very proud of their accomplishments, not to mention the quality of their performances.  About a week ago I posted the link on facebook.  I have no idea if anyone who read it contributed, but it was the cumulative effect of so many fans posting that must have done the trick!

I do hope for your sake that they will somehow get to India, or that you can somehow get here.
That skype chat would have been awesome for you because of your connection with her as a vocalist.  I myself would surely be too tongue tied to do a skype with her, but I really do want to try to meet her at the PA concert in Oct, and thank her
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 06 2017 at 21:29
Tell you what, I was tempted by the Skype option later yesterday and tried to create a login for myself. But Skye wouldn't connect and I said it will be a lot of money down the drain if this happens on the day of my chat. I wouldn't dare discuss singing with her, though. I mean, it's like somebody learning the alphabet trying to talk to an English major about English. She has said she likes Indian music so I would have probably asked her about specific artists. That would have been a good starting point to build on. And of course about who all her were/are her favourite singers, that sort of stuff.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2017 at 21:10
*bump*  Lots to share, haven't been able to post here on PA generally very much lately. 

Firstly, Annie has been giving quite a few interviews in the build up to the concerts with the 10 piece orchestra.  The best of them was this one:


The great news is:

a) They are going to do Islands with an orchestra (not mentioned in the interview but the band said so on FB)!  Islands with an orchestra would be fantastic and I was always curious as to how it would sound with Annie's voice since this was the song she performed for the Renaissance audition.

b) It transpires that the RPO had approached the band for a concert with them again but given the expense, Annie was apprehensive.  So this series of concerts is a pilot of sorts and if it goes of well, who knows, fans could actually get a video of a concert with RPO, something they missed out on back in the day. 

Two things that made me sad:

a) Annie is a long surviving patient of osteoporosis and if the Repub healthcare bill goes through (have no idea sitting here what the status is), she will lose coverage and will not be able to afford her treatment.  She says very politely in the interview that she doesn't want to talk about politics but at the same time, she basically won't be around for much longer if this happens. Cry

b) During the making of her troubled s/t solo album in America, her mother's Alzheimer's became unmanageable and she had to go back to UK.  By the time she could get back, the album of singer Basia (never heard) was ready for release on the same label (Epic Records) and they were assured of sales in the region of 400000 copies.  Predictably, they 'killed' Annie's album and it sank without a trace as the promotion budget was diverted to Basia's album.  With that, Annie lost her contract with Epic Records and she had been signed on for 4 albums.  It's amazing (in a bad way) how she's had this never ending run of misfortune.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2017 at 21:59
I’ve, most likely, mentioned Camera Camera as being one of my favourites. There’s something about it that ‘does it’ for me. It’s nothing on their classic 70’s albums, but one of my favourite Prog albums from the 80’s. it’s pretty ‘Poppy’, but complex at the same time. And Jon Camp is on fire with his bass playing, and Annie is perfect as always. Love this album.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2017 at 04:34
^I agree with you Tom. Despite a few duff tracks, Camera Camera is a long time favorite of mine from any genre. I wish they would the title track in concert or Ukraine Ways. Especially with an orchestra!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2017 at 04:46
While I don't like Camera Camera much, I love the title track. But as well as her voice may have aged, I don't think Annie could sing that anymore. That was a young and supple voice in its prime, shifting registers with monstrous ease. They did perform it live at the time from what I gather and I would love to hear recordings of it.

Edited by rogerthat - October 20 2017 at 05:51
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2017 at 07:42
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

*bump*  Lots to share, haven't been able to post here on PA generally very much lately. 

Firstly, Annie has been giving quite a few interviews in the build up to the concerts with the 10 piece orchestra.  The best of them was this one:


The great news is:

a) They are going to do Islands with an orchestra (not mentioned in the interview but the band said so on FB)!  Islands with an orchestra would be fantastic and I was always curious as to how it would sound with Annie's voice since this was the song she performed for the Renaissance audition.

b) It transpires that the RPO had approached the band for a concert with them again but given the expense, Annie was apprehensive.  So this series of concerts is a pilot of sorts and if it goes of well, who knows, fans could actually get a video of a concert with RPO, something they missed out on back in the day. 

Two things that made me sad:

a) Annie is a long surviving patient of osteoporosis and if the Repub healthcare bill goes through (have no idea sitting here what the status is), she will lose coverage and will not be able to afford her treatment.  She says very politely in the interview that she doesn't want to talk about politics but at the same time, she basically won't be around for much longer if this happens. Cry

b) During the making of her troubled s/t solo album in America, her mother's Alzheimer's became unmanageable and she had to go back to UK.  By the time she could get back, the album of singer Basia (never heard) was ready for release on the same label (Epic Records) and they were assured of sales in the region of 400000 copies.  Predictably, they 'killed' Annie's album and it sank without a trace as the promotion budget was diverted to Basia's album.  With that, Annie lost her contract with Epic Records and she had been signed on for 4 albums.  It's amazing (in a bad way) how she's had this never ending run of misfortune.

awesome interview, thanks!
2 weeks from the Keswick show, which will be the one they film for the DVD.  It's exciting that they ae working a few songs into the set that have rarely if ever been done live.  I love that they try to change it up for their fans.  But I do hope they still do "A Song for all Seasons".  We need a live document of it with the orchestra!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2017 at 07:44
I think she could still do it Roger. Smile Or perhaps that's just wishful thinking. Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2017 at 08:19
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

I think she could still do it Roger. Smile Or perhaps that's just wishful thinking. Tongue

Would love for Annie to read what I wrote, bristle at the very suggestion and make me eat crow by performing it live.  But nah, think that's just too much pyrotechnics now.  Even on Ashes are burning, she no longer does that amazing 'alternate picking' rapid vocalise she used to in the late 70s/80s. She doesn't perform Running Hard at a faster pace than the original recording the way she could in the mid 70s.  She has wisely adapted her still brilliant voice to age because she doesn't need those pyrotechnics to give a great show.  A track like Mystic and the Muse is still very technical but she's not trying to sing too fast in general.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2017 at 08:39
^ agreed, she has mellowed and has the wisdom to perform within her limits, which has meant, and will hopefully continue to mean, performances into the future.

I do think resurrecting a song from Camera Camera in concert would be therapeutic for all.  It was a credible reinventing of their sound IMO.  They are even resurrecting "Kalynda", and I think Camera Camera is a MUCH better album than Azure D'Or

Re Healthcare, let's hope that Trump and company will continue to stumble as they try to take good health care away from the masses.  I recently read that his latest executive order of limiting coverages may actually backfire as it actually opens the door to financial assistance for a lot of the people who are affected



Edited by kenethlevine - October 20 2017 at 08:41
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2017 at 08:54
Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

^ agreed, she has mellowed and has the wisdom to perform within her limits, which has meant, and will hopefully continue to mean, performances into the future.

I do think resurrecting a song from Camera Camera in concert would be therapeutic for all.  It was a credible reinventing of their sound IMO.  They are even resurrecting "Kalynda", and I think Camera Camera is a MUCH better album than Azure D'Or

Re Healthcare, let's hope that Trump and company will continue to stumble as they try to take good health care away from the masses.  I recently read that his latest executive order of limiting coverages may actually backfire as it actually opens the door to financial assistance for a lot of the people who are affected


Unfortunately, Annie has completely turned against both the 80s albums.  She was anti AZD for some time but seems to like Kalynda and Forever Changing for now.  I think they could do Bonjour Swansong and Remember, they weren't so far removed from the classic sound anyway, barring the keyboards.  I'd love for them to do Okichi San with orchestra but Annie has misgivings about the song now being it is about a geisha. 

Listening to the Camera Camera song, just wondrous singing.  No way she can do that fluttery vibrato now. At that time, she could do pretty much whatever she wanted to with that voice for hers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2017 at 09:08
^ I know she has turned against their 80s work and that's why I think it would be therapeutic.  As you point out, there is plenty of classic Renaissance inherent in several of the tracks, which could be redone without the cheesy keys quite nicely.  Understood about the geisha issue, and I don't think they can include Northern Lights and Bonjour Swansong in the same set - too redundant.  If Camera Camera is out of her current range, then indeed "Remember" might be the best choice.  They would have to find something to replace the repetitive, uninteresting, and poorly executed outtro but I think Rave could figure something out.  Tyrant Tula has a bit of the Vultures Fly High thing going on, so that could work too.  Ukraine Ways would be a great choice as well.  I like the Russian dance rhythm to it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2017 at 09:25
^^^^ It could be therapeutic indeed but, and I say this with the greatest respect, I guess Annie attends to conflict/unpleasant situations by simply avoiding them.  That's why she jumped at the opportunity when Camp pulled out of the reunion shows citing his 60s birthday celebrations.  She didn't want to deal with them again and was glad to be given an easy way out.  It is what it is.  Not going to judge, maybe we would have chosen likewise in her position.  In case you're wondering, it's all connected.  Bashing the 80s albums probably has more to do with anger that Camp pushed them down that road and towards ignominy than say an aesthetic dislike of the music itself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2017 at 09:58
I guess in retrospect perhaps they should have gone Europop in the 80s instead of synth new wave, but they were between a rock and a hard place, and it's quite possible nothing would have worked any better than what they tried.  They simply didn't have the audience and the marketing push that the big 6 had
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2017 at 10:02
They were doomed once they lost the Warner Bros contract.  Yes and Genesis had a big label contract and could roll on.  Renaissance were already in a tough spot when the band split post AZD.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2017 at 12:24
What is all this ‘bad blood’ with Jon Camp ??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2017 at 21:49
Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

What is all this ‘bad blood’ with Jon Camp ??

It's a long story and one where we don't quite know what all really happened between the parties concerned. Maybe SteveG can throw more light on it but Annie joked in one interview that they would probably kill each other now. They are not getting back ever, I guess, not after Tout too passed away.  Sullivan had already kind of fallen out with them during Tuscany and said he'd rather be long distance friends than work and bring back all those unpleasant feelings.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2017 at 07:08
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

What is all this ‘bad blood’ with Jon Camp ??

It's a long story and one where we don't quite know what all really happened between the parties concerned. Maybe SteveG can throw more light on it but Annie joked in one interview that they would probably kill each other now. They are not getting back ever, I guess, not after Tout too passed away.  Sullivan had already kind of fallen out with them during Tuscany and said he'd rather be long distance friends than work and bring back all those unpleasant feelings.
As noted, both Annie and the late Micky Dunford were mum as to the bad feelings remaining with Camp. The best that I can recall hearing is the hard feelings arose with Camp when he ditched the group in '85 while both Annie and Dunford stuck it out for a few more years. He was the driving force behind Camera Camera and the abysmal Time Line that followed, so I'm sure that didn't help when he bailed, but all that is well known.
What's not well known is the change in Annie's input, creative control, as well as business control, over the group, along with Dunford before he passed away. In the past, Annie left that side of things to the boys. With Camp such a domineering personality, I can only assume that Annie would not want to deal with him in her new, more forward role in Renaissance. Hence the joke that "they would probably kill each other."
 


Edited by SteveG - October 21 2017 at 07:14
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2017 at 09:03
"He was the driving force behind Camera Camera and the abysmal Time Line that followed, so I'm sure that didn't help when he bailed, but all that is well known."

Yeah, this is my assessment too.  Camp does not seem to have acknowledged that it was a bad idea to bail out on them because they were without a drummer.  He could play guitar and keyboard too; surely he could have helped them stay afloat.  He was clearly taken aback by the blowback when he asked to come back again.

"With Camp such a domineering personality, I can only assume that Annie would not want to deal with him in her new, more forward role in Renaissance."

Yeah, Annie has been pretty upfront about this and mentioned that she is much more involved in the business side of things and it would not work out because Camp used to take care of it (along with Dunford, presumably) in the 70s.  Reading between the lines (because she mentioned payment issues in a bitter interview from 2005 when she was on a hiatus), she may have apprehended that splitting earnings would not be a smooth affair and hence her resistance to getting Camp back on board.  I got the feeling she may have been ok to have Tout back in the fold since she did a one off performance with him in 2008 but they (Tout and Sullivan) sided with Camp in the fall out of what happened in 2009 so that was that.
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