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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2017 at 11:50
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

Nah...  See the guy who looks like he stepped right off the top of a wedding cake...

he was the important X.

The whole lot of the others.. including Trump.. buffoons. Dangerous in their own way... but limited to what they could do by their own buffoonery, inexperience.  As the last 7 months have shown... cleaning up after Bush took all Obama could do... cleaning up after Trump.. piece of cake. His damage is more to the social fabric of the nation rather than anything he actually does himself assuming he keeps us out of a Asiatic War.

Pence though is a true domestic danger...  and why again Trump is gone next year if Mueller finds what we suspect he will find.  Trump was not part of the Republican Party.. nor was truly supported by it ...he simply took it over.. and is f**king up their brand name.  Pence though.. he is one of them... and a very dangerous right wing fundie social activist. Something Trump is not. Unless Trump does a complete 180 and things continue as they have.  Trump will be gone if Mueller gives Congress political cover with their own voters to save their own asses for the midterms and attempt to preserve any chance of winning in 2020.
Yes! Pence scares me. Trump is just so incompetent at his job that we might be better off with him. Then again, Trump is so clearly unhinged that ousting him may be necessary. The cost may be elevating the VP to POTUS and, having sound experience in government, he may not be quite so incompetent in pushing his agenda and message. I just don't know.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2017 at 11:46
^ I am not what you would call anti-police at all. As a trouble making youth I had plenty of first hand experience with police officers, and I was often impressed with their patience and professionalism, but its well known in the black community that there are police officers who have an agenda against blacks, and officers who are straight up KKK.

This has been well documented in recent times via amateur videos and police dash cam videos etc. One video I can recall specifically shows an officer in South Carolina executing an older black man in the back as he tried to run. Another recent video shows an officer punching a black man in the head after he is handcuffed and pinned to the ground. This is all the more unfortunate as it makes it even harder for the good cops to do their job.

Edited by Easy Money - August 19 2017 at 12:00
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2017 at 08:36
Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

I'm not quite sure what HackettFan is trying to get at with his post, but I assume it is because I do not have a PhD in linguistics (congrats on that by the way).  The only reason that I typed the word Black in bold was to stress the word that people to tend to have a problem with in that catchphrase. 


Yes, you were adequately describing what their problem with it was by placing 'black' in bold. And I explained that that does not comport with what any and every native speaker understands about the language. They are being disingenuous by forming that interpretation. They are changing its meaning. Let's put it this way. A 'Black lives matter' activist would speak in a fashion as to put the sentence stress on 'matter' (place 'matter' in bold). This is the normal default way to utter sentences in English according to how information is typically packaged. If I say horses have four legs, one is not free to say that I am saying that sheep do not. If I say animals matter, one is not free to say that I am saying that humans do not. If I say that Linguistics is a cool cognitive science, one is not free to say that I am saying that Psychology is not.


Gotcha.  What you say makes sense to me now.  And I agree that there is a falseness to this interpretation.

I read far too many comment sections on CNN and other news websites.  The more real argument that is made is if "black lives matter" so much why do they only show up when there is death by police officer.  In the city of Detroit numerous blacks are murdered each and every day.  Chicago is a war zone.  More blacks die in Chicago then soldiers in the war on ISIS.  Where are the black lives matter folks then?  If black lives matter so much why are they not protesting these murders? 

Personally, I was raised to believe that the police are the good guys, and I still think that this is true.  I have no idea what the true story is behind all of the police officers shooting black people.  Almost every story that I have seen has involved a black man breaking the law and being shot by a police officer who was doing his or her job.  Police brutality?  Excessive force?  Fearing for their own lives?  Unlike the gang bangers who are killing each other without a second thought, I am pretty sure that every one of these police officers who may feel justified in what they have done, would if given a second chance tried to have found a way to have tried to end things differently.  I agree that most of these men did not commit a crime that deserved for them to be executed, but if they hadn't been committing the crime that brought them to the police's attention then the events that occurred resulting in their deaths wouldn't have happened.  Forgive my possible naïve point of view, but I don't think that I am alone in this point of view.  I think that this is mostly the white point of view.   

Don't get me wrong. I agree 100% that black lives matter as much as all lives matter.  It makes me sad that anybody would kill anybody else.  And I think that it is sad that each of these situations resulted in someone's death.  Anyhow I'm going off the rails on a very touchy subject.  I don't think that I have said anything too radical but just trying to provide a counter point of view.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2017 at 08:27
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Its quite simple; the phrase black lives matter does not imply that other lives do not matter, it just points out that there are those who act as if black lives don't matter.


Indeed, and the fact so many people jump to that conclusion, must speak to something. Which is nothing new, we never did deal with our race issue, just keep ignoring it and moving around to avoid it. 
Yes, our race issue is down to laws put on paper. We have done little to alter how people think about race issues. The fact that Trump's Christian supporters failed to object to his "both sides were at fault" stance illustrates that clearly. If the church will not take a stand on race issues, how can it's followers?
 
As to black lives matter, wouldn't it be more correct to state black lives matter, too. (Just asking.)

No, Black lives were introduced as the topic from the very start. It would be more correct to say 'White lives matter too' since that's an attempt to broaden the topic (and derail it).




Edited by HackettFan - August 19 2017 at 08:28
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2017 at 07:52
^ in fact to add to that sense of history we are living in.

One can easily say that in terms of the President himself and the nation around him.... that only after 7 months Trump has already moved past 43 past Presidents .. only behind Lincoln himself as the most historically important US Presidents. Will Clinton, Bush, Kennedy.. even FDR be studied intensely many many years down the road. No.. not like Lincoln... nor Trump.  Not surprisingly both involve the division of this country. We were at a crossroads as a nation under Lincoln and arrived at it due to his election.. and we are that as well under Trump. That place in history that unlike other Presidents is merely continuing down paths previously established... but are firm places due to them from which the future and where this country goes are quite uncertain.

This is history man... and we are not merely audiences to it. But part of it ourselves.


Edited by micky - August 19 2017 at 07:55
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2017 at 06:59
good god man.... I can't get enough of it myself.  This is history we are living in. Nothing like it before in 250 years before... hopefully nothing like it in the next 250. This was the VERY reason the founding fathers made the electoral college.. for when the ignorant uninformed masses f**k up royally and elect something that had no business being elected if one voted responcibly.  Just happened well after it exceeded it's practical lifespan. Imagine the books ... all the books to come out of this. We are living it...  others will merely read it.

The grandkids of our kids will be reading about these days... and probably having the same reaction many of us do.... what the f**k was 'Trump voter' thinking that fateful day in November 2016.


Edited by micky - August 19 2017 at 07:01
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2017 at 06:51
I am sick and tired of our politics at the moment.  The Stephanie Miller Show always cheers me up.  A little at least. http://https://www.stephaniemiller.com/
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2017 at 06:46
Nah...  See the guy who looks like he stepped right off the top of a wedding cake...

he was the important X.

The whole lot of the others.. including Trump.. buffoons. Dangerous in their own way... but limited to what they could do by their own buffoonery, inexperience.  As the last 7 months have shown... cleaning up after Bush took all Obama could do... cleaning up after Trump.. piece of cake. His damage is more to the social fabric of the nation rather than anything he actually does himself assuming he keeps us out of a Asiatic War.

Pence though is a true domestic danger...  and why again Trump is gone next year if Mueller finds what we suspect he will find.  Trump was not part of the Republican Party.. nor was truly supported by it ...he simply took it over.. and is f**king up their brand name.  Pence though.. he is one of them... and a very dangerous right wing fundie social activist. Something Trump is not. Unless Trump does a complete 180 and things continue as they have.  Trump will be gone if Mueller gives Congress political cover with their own voters to save their own asses for the midterms and attempt to preserve any chance of winning in 2020.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2017 at 06:32
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:


Two more X's and the Dems win the game!


Playing the game of dick wack dope. 5 x's and you ein.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2017 at 05:39
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

The First Amendment to the United States Constitution prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion, ensuring that there is no prohibition on the free exercise of religion, abridging the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble, or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances. It was adopted on December 15, 1791, as one of the ten amendments that constitute the Bill of Rights.

The greatest thing about the USA in my opinion is this 1st amendment.  This amendment gives pricks like the KKK and Neo Nazis the right to spout off their nonsense. They are free to exercise their right to freedom of speech, no matter how deplorable and hateful their speech may be.  Now I'm not sure how a hate group can technically "peaceably" assemble, but without the counterprotesters there to take the bait I suspect that the violence that occurred wouldn't have occurred. 

I guess what I am getting at is that as much as I disagree with the message that these groups have, it is their right to provide this message and ironically, preventing them from giving this message would actually go against America's #1 core value.  "Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me".  Once they cross that line then all bets are off, but as long as they are just spouting hate that is their right to do so.  

true that... but what has trumped the 1st Amendment. Always has.. always will.  Is public safety.. no one is getting thrown in jail for hate speach... one can not shout fire in a crowded movie theater.. you can in the street and not get tossed into jail by the 'politically correct'.....  a simple comparison.. but an accurate one. Denying permits to those that preach hate is not infringing upon their free speech or their first amendment rights it is protecting public safety.  You have the right to free speach... you do not have the right to exerciseit in any and all circumstances.

the thing many seem to forget....  the other side of the coin with one's rights.. is the responsibility that comes with exercising those rights. So vividly shown in 2016 by non bigoted, racist Trump voters hahah. Agenet of change?  Oh yeah he has been that.. .just not what you might have hoped with your eyes closed and your f**king heads in the sand. So you didn't like Hillary.. and you thought a good idea electing a rich misogynist, racist, reality TV star and otherwise failed business leader with no experience, and zero temperament who ran a campaign based upon hate and division to be the champion... or even care.. about the peons he has shown zero regard for.. until stumping for their votes.

with rights.. comes the duty to exercise them responsibly.


Edited by micky - August 19 2017 at 06:27
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2017 at 05:23
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:


I guess this is the point that I am trying to make.  Nothing has really changed all that much.  Hillary pointed out this basket of deplorables during the campaign and all that it did was energize Trump and his supporters.  Are we really all that surprised that Trump responded how he did?  People are acting as though "now he has crossed the line and gone too far" but as far as I can tell he is just being consistent. I have no idea how this clown got elected but it worked for him then, and honestly, I wonder if we are delusioning ourselves if we think that anything has changed because of his remarks.  The people that hated him then still hate him now and have been quite vocal about it since day one of his election but sadly this mostly just comes across as sour grapes.

From what I can gather, the people who voted for him then only because they hated Hillary, may regret his behavior and that he is such a buffoon, but they would still rather not have Hillary.  I just don't think that this is the game changer that the Democrats are hoping that it is.

game changer?  I do think it was Scott.. but not for the reasons you are touching on here.  Not the electorate at large.  Trump has his core support. Roughly a third of the population. Where he won, or more to the point.. where Hillary lost.. was in battle for the middle third of the electorate. Those that hated both of them but saw Hillary as the status quo.. and Trump the agent of change. If the polls are to be believed.. Trump's support has cratered among those.. but it wasn't Charlottesville that did it.. it has going on for months. If he doesn't regain them...  he gets crushed 1964 Goldwater style who only had the votes of racists and bigots. They exist here... but nowhere near enough to win elections at a national level.

Where I do think it was a game changer.. was pure and simple.. . was whether he survives politically.  When you have Republicans... Republicans that stood on the sidelines previously regarding his past outrages haha.. finally come out and question his judgment, temperament and the COMPETENCE to be President.. that means yes.. it was a game changer.  Which means unless things change very quickly...  the notion of the Republicans impeaching him if and when Mueller comes out with his findings is much more real today than it was a week ago.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2017 at 05:10
Originally posted by mathman0806 mathman0806 wrote:

Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Its quite simple; the phrase black lives matter does not imply that other lives do not matter, it just points out that there are those who act as if black lives don't matter.


Indeed, and the fact so many people jump to that conclusion, must speak to something. Which is nothing new, we never did deal with our race issue, just keep ignoring it and moving around to avoid it. 


Yeah, when a White supremacist, chants white lives matter, they mean "only" white lives matter. The point of black lives matter is to mean black lives matter "as well."

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2017 at 03:19
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Two more X's and the Dems win the game!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2017 at 03:18
Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Its quite simple; the phrase black lives matter does not imply that other lives do not matter, it just points out that there are those who act as if black lives don't matter.

Indeed, and the fact so many people jump to that conclusion, must speak to something. Which is nothing new, we never did deal with our race issue, just keep ignoring it and moving around to avoid it. 
Yes, our race issue is down to laws put on paper. We have done little to alter how people think about race issues. The fact that Trump's Christian supporters failed to object to his "both sides were at fault" stance illustrates that clearly. If the church will not take a stand on race issues, how can it's followers?
 
As to black lives matter, wouldn't it be more correct to state black lives matter, too. (Just asking.)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2017 at 02:53
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2017 at 17:39
Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Its quite simple; the phrase black lives matter does not imply that other lives do not matter, it just points out that there are those who act as if black lives don't matter.


Indeed, and the fact so many people jump to that conclusion, must speak to something. Which is nothing new, we never did deal with our race issue, just keep ignoring it and moving around to avoid it. 


Yeah, when a White supremacist, chants white lives matter, they mean "only" white lives matter. The point of black lives matter is to mean black lives matter "as well."
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2017 at 16:33
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Its quite simple; the phrase black lives matter does not imply that other lives do not matter, it just points out that there are those who act as if black lives don't matter.

Indeed, and the fact so many people jump to that conclusion, must speak to something. Which is nothing new, we never did deal with our race issue, just keep ignoring it and moving around to avoid it. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2017 at 16:30
^ Wurd.

The thing we tend to either forget or deny is that in the US, sometimes black lives don't matter, or don't seem to.   Not suggesting that anyone here thinks that and I'm not judging the public in general, but sometimes even us bedwetting liberals don't always give African Americans the respect that they, that we all, deserve.

It's a long, long process.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2017 at 15:55
Its quite simple; the phrase black lives matter does not imply that other lives do not matter, it just points out that there are those who act as if black lives don't matter.

Edited by Easy Money - August 18 2017 at 16:23
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2017 at 14:52
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

I'm not quite sure what HackettFan is trying to get at with his post, but I assume it is because I do not have a PhD in linguistics (congrats on that by the way).  The only reason that I typed the word Black in bold was to stress the word that people to tend to have a problem with in that catchphrase. 


Yes, you were adequately describing what their problem with it was by placing 'black' in bold. And I explained that that does not comport with what any and every native speaker understands about the language. They are being disingenuous by forming that interpretation. They are changing its meaning. Let's put it this way. A 'Black lives matter' activist would speak in a fashion as to put the sentence stress on 'matter' (place 'matter' in bold). This is the normal default way to utter sentences in English according to how information is typically packaged. If I say horses have four legs, one is not free to say that I am saying that sheep do not. If I say animals matter, one is not free to say that I am saying that humans do not. If I say that Linguistics is a cool cognitive science, one is not free to say that I am saying that Psychology is not.




Edited by HackettFan - August 18 2017 at 14:55
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