The American Politics Thread

Well....I stand corrected, some actual news!

Oh yeah, like I said the GOP will get away with it long as their base lets em. Technically can't even fault the GOP, well we can for being so immoral, but pure strategy wise it is indeed working. It's like this constant drift they take into the extreme. I keep thinking "OK they've hit the limit on anti gov sentiment, or anti immigrant sentiment" and nope, someone steps up the plate next for a bigger swing. 

rogerthat wrote: JJLehto wrote: Ah, yeah no doubt. Progress is progress, moderate or conservative Democrats need to accept this is a party and they are in the minority, but the party was foolish to abandon so many people economically as well. Obama proved the rust belt will hold onto social liberals long as they still believe the person has their interests in mind.  While I am a social liberal, and believe any national candidate should be, we should be tolerant of diversity below. I recall Sanders took some flak for endorsing a pro life Mayor, and Tom Perez said how all democrats need to be 100% pro choice, guns were made SUCH a big issue and frankly that's not wise. We need to do all we can to keep people in the tent. Focus on economics, allow some moderation at state and local level. And let me add that such doctrinaire convictions are not very, well, liberal so at least they could stop pretending to be liberals if they want to force everyone to align with their positions.

SteveG wrote: Atavachron wrote: ^ Not at all; this is a politics thread, you have to expect serious disagreement but you don't have to be part of any tribe (except maybe a diatribe).   Of course Hillary was a bad candidate, but compared to Trump she's a brilliant stateswoman.   Never going to be elected?   She was elected, which is why Trump is down to 19% or so of loyal followers.   He will be driven out of Washington so fast his orange skin will turn green before our eyes as the Marshals cuff him and lead him out of the White House, Trump grinning and muttering "You'll all miss me...that I can tell you, that I can tell you.  It's gonna be yooj". Nice one David! The bottom line is that no matter how flawed Hilary is, she is and will always be superior to the lunatic that is now our President. End of story. Jooj!  ;)

Atavachron wrote: ^ Not at all; this is a politics thread, you have to expect serious disagreement but you don't have to be part of any tribe (except maybe a diatribe).   Of course Hillary was a bad candidate, but compared to Trump she's a brilliant stateswoman.   Never going to be elected?   She was elected, which is why Trump is down to 19% or so of loyal followers.   He will be driven out of Washington so fast his orange skin will turn green before our eyes as the Marshals cuff him and lead him out of the White House, Trump grinning and muttering "You'll all miss me...that I can tell you, that I can tell you.  It's gonna be yooj".

well said my friend.  Oh tribal politics is alive and well.. on the right at least.  They knew Trump was fundamentally unfit and unqualified to be elected and still elected him because their political identification would not allow them to possibly vote for a much more qualified,experienced, emphatic politician who while personally flawed.. would still work to improve the lot of all Americans.. not just those that supported her.

The basic calculus of American politics is that tribalism on the right motivates their voters to get out and vote, fear and hate are powerful motivators..  along with an ideological purity that leaves little place for common sense politics. Hense the GOP Heath Care attempts which are much more about feeding the ideological beast.. less taxes,, less government. .than acually ummm..  trying to fix health care.

While the greatest strength and the greatest weakness of the Democratic Party is its pragmatism.  Pro Choice Republicans?  hah...   yet there are many Democrats ..liberal ones like myself that are pro-gun, pro states rights that have a home in the party.  Is the Democratic party ideologically based? Does one know anything about politics? Of course it is not..  that again is its greatest strength.. diversity of opinions and looking more than the 5 feet in front of their collective faces and yet its greatest weakness.   Note.. almost 30 districts voted for Clinton yet elected a Republican representative.  That pragmatism is best for America.. yout know.. thinking rational voters...  yet bad for the party.  That is a notion that is nonexistent on the right...  it is not America first.. it is party first.

Said it once.. said it a 100 times. Trump voter?  Be ashamed of yourself .. you knew he was not up the job.. this was not Bush.. all the signs.. warning signs were there.. but you ignored them for voting with the tribe..putting that first... not for country... not putting that first. They voted for him becubecause you didn't put the country first.

JJLehto wrote: Ah, yeah no doubt. Progress is progress, moderate or conservative Democrats need to accept this is a party and they are in the minority, but the party was foolish to abandon so many people economically as well. Obama proved the rust belt will hold onto social liberals long as they still believe the person has their interests in mind.  While I am a social liberal, and believe any national candidate should be, we should be tolerant of diversity below. I recall Sanders took some flak for endorsing a pro life Mayor, and Tom Perez said how all democrats need to be 100% pro choice, guns were made SUCH a big issue and frankly that's not wise. We need to do all we can to keep people in the tent. Focus on economics, allow some moderation at state and local level.

Edited by rogerthat - June 09 2017 at 22:34

^ Not at all; this is a politics thread, you have to expect serious disagreement but you don't have to be part of any tribe (except maybe a diatribe).   Of course Hillary was a bad candidate, but compared to Trump she's a brilliant stateswoman.   Never going to be elected?   She was elected, which is why Trump is down to 19% or so of loyal followers.   He will be driven out of Washington so fast his orange skin will turn green before our eyes as the Marshals cuff him and lead him out of the White House, Trump grinning and muttering "You'll all miss me...that I can tell you, that I can tell you.  It's gonna be yooj".




Edited by Atavachron - June 09 2017 at 16:13

^ Raving nonsense.   Trump will resign in 2018.  

JJLehto wrote: What do you mean by "given up" exactly? I don't know if the Democrats have given up on the midwest, or just assumed they will always vote for Democrats. This was a fatal flaw in the Clinton campaign who ignored the rust belt under the assumption they will automatically back her. Unless you mean specific liberal writers/liberals in general in which case I can't say I have an answer. All I can think of is as the party has become increasingly liberal on social issues, dedicated to college graduates and urban dwellers maybe they view the midwest as rednecks, backwards, too conservative etc etc Which would be a damn shame.  That'd just be arrogance. I'm a middle class, dense suburb raised, college graduate from the northeast and I don't look down on the midwest. The opposite, I do feel for lots of people who voted for Trump. While misguided, there are major problems out there for a lot of Americans who have been left behind by changes. There does seem to be some more agreement from the mainstream even that globalization has at least not worked as smoothly as believed. I agree, it's actually a stupid idea that's been pushed. You said it, there is simply not enough tech/white collar/knowledge jobs to support 100 million people. Especially with globalization creating intl competition...a good friend of mine is always nervous that he needs to train the south african branch of his company, because they are paid much much less and can design websites right there, he fears he's training his own replacement. Anyway, it's certainly unrealistic to think the "new" economy will just absorb all these people. Especially with a lack of resources. To even have a chance at landing a job like that you need college. So 4 years and many thousands of dollars. What about a 35 year old who has only worked that job and has a family. Can't exactly just go to school to study computers. Especially with such weak public assistance.

Soooo, the conservative experiment in Kansas has come to and end. The result: failure