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micky View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2017 at 13:32
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

That article has no calories, no substance ..*snip*



what was that quote from Bull Durham.. this conversation is rapidly approaching Martian and Fungo status

first off.. show me any work done to show that their are no negative effects to this. Of course you won't and can't all you have are the verbal assurances of the administration that ...  this will be the greatest duty ever.. everyone will be happy.. America will be greater. Words.. empty rhetoric with no basis. No one loses their job... the only people hurt will be the bad bad Canadians taking advantage of us..  Sorry man that fails any test of reason.. and it just happens that those in the field and economics called bullsh*t on such claims.

Jesus man.. and do you all really wonder why so many question the intelligence of those that just accept what Trump and his minions put out at face value. It is your duty to be skeptical.. especially when the man is walking confict of business interest.. oh.. not to mention having zero experience in governing... made worse by surrounding himself with advisors that (unlike Bush ) are just as inexperienced and over their head.

second off... there is a wonderful thing called hyper links.. if you bother to check them out and find the substance and calories to that report. that link postedwas a summation. I figured this might be an educated reasonable conversation but perhaps I should have known better and so it goes into the toilet. At least you didn't call it fake site or alt facts as many with their heads in the sand like to do when their cute little notions don't pass reality checks.

Note..and this is the important point

This was not this was from a politically partisan source.. that can be just ignored as political postering...but one who.. ahem.. are directly involved and affected (be it positively or negatively) by it. If they found it wouldn't have made a difference.. they would have said as much but they didn't.  It helps the timber industry here the report says as much... but it does far more damage to others than the little it might do for timber states and their workers.  That is not a value judgement... just what economists believe.   Protectectism  may save a few jobs to the select few.. but downstream it will cost many others their jobs.  It is what we call a negative sum gain. 



Edited by micky - April 29 2017 at 13:33
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2017 at 14:14
Then all the other administrations that oversaw this same duty since the 80's, we should have questioned their intelligence and also accept their minions for what they put out as whatever? Sure Trump has no public office governing experience, so what....The others had no experience running a billion $$ business....Tit for tat.

The rest is just glorified political talk, this side that side. The fact remains the housing market has been growing by leaps and bounds and people are able to buy these new and old remodeled houses, regardless of this duty.

So I guess your ok with cars being assembled in Mexico with no regard for the US auto worker. A much more gigantic problem than a $7,000 lumber package for your $400K house. Canadian lumber mills will be perfectly fine......As has been the case since the 80's, natural disasters (fire) and animal protectionism (spotted owl, tree huggers) has been more harm than this lowly duty.
But since it is a Trump watch duty, the sky is now falling......LOL

I have no more valid points to make......Enjoy your weekend...Gonna go to another music site and continue my Beatles trashing Clap that does not have mental a$$ captcha every other post.
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micky View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2017 at 14:24
yeah.... the Captchas really suck man Beer

anyhow.. find me something factual to debunk, perferable as that was from a apolitical source, those findings and numbers and we can pick this up again if you wish.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2017 at 21:53
Ah yes...lumber. A hot button issue in the US-Canada trade debate since 1988.
Seriously.
Glad to see the more things change, the more they stay the same!

Also Trump continue to be a bully. Picks on an easy target, I mean Canada is about as low on the list of concern as can be, while totally leaving China alone. Which is no shock, Trump benefits personally from Chinese labor he wont dare harm em lol
He's even dropped the rhetoric as they become good friends unified in this weird escalation with North Korea, though as another strong man I assume the two have agree to put on this show. OI

Anyway, Trump had a bold big plan for his first 100 days. 100 days in, he's done basically nothing.
Total whiff on ACA, tax reform, his muslims bans have both been challenged by the courts as is his want to defund sanctuary cities. However, some things he HAS achieved: Delaying or eliminating rules that benefit work health and wagesCry as this article lays out, he has displayed an overall anti labor mentality, despite some nice words. http://www.epi.org/publication/the-first-100-days-president-trumps-top-priorities-include-rolling-back-protections-to-workers-wages-health-and-safety/   (Sorry to do it this way but for whatever reason I have been unable to put that in a link, several minutes and attempts)

Way to go Ohio, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, Iowa. The working class who put their faith in Trump sure have shot themselves in the foot. And its only 100 days in! We knew this would happen but guess some people need the slap to ever learn
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2017 at 22:11
Because really, Trump may have pulled out of TPP, a move I supported, but what is he gunna do? Thus far, nothing. Trade with the TPP nations already existed, either through direct FTAs or generally low barriers. He pulled out of a future deal, but what does he intend to do about the already existent issue?

What about China? Even mainstream economists are admitting now trade with China has cost us jobs, I've seen 2-3 million since 2000. What does he intend to do? Thus far, it seems absolutely nothing.

He may talk tough with Mexico and maybe maybe he'll do SOMETHING but a great discussion I heard about the "border tax" on NPR made it seem like while it would raise revenue and may be a good tax, it wont really do much to stop imports or trade imbalance. This was from a supporter of the tax.
So thus far, we have...a tariff on Canadian lumber, and a lot of "looking into" trade reforms and tough talk.

Sad!

And that's just trade. Domestically Trump and has shown a clear anti labor agenda. Sure he talks about his $trillion infrastructure and he probably means it since he has an obsession with building things and it would likely benefit his friends and co but cmon how will that get passed a GOP Congress? He wants to make drastic cuts to gov agencies that would carry this plan out....he's looking to slash regulations, crush whatever may remain of our weak unions, is anti min wage.

Speaking of, latest EPI report is out. They estimate the impact of a $15/hr min wage by 2024 (based on a bill proposed by Sanders and others). They estimate it would:
Raise wages for 41 million workers (29% of the work force)
Of the workers benefited: 55% would be women, 63% work full time, 28% have children.
33-40% of Hispanic and Black workers would be benefited, as would over 40% of single parents
The avg age of benefited workers is 36, and only 10% impacted would be teenagers.

http://www.epi.org/publication/15-by-2024-would-lift-wages-for-41-million/

A true unifying move. Note if you check their interactive map, the states that would benefit most are red states, those who would oppose it LOL
Shame people that need this, and labor policies in general, oppose them due to a lifetime of brainwashing and instead channel their economic frustration into walls, bans, tough policing, etc etc :(
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2017 at 06:31
yeah man... brainwashing is about what it is isn't it.

You know it is almost enough to want to see Congress ram through this whole Health Care farce... just to see it hurt most the very fools that it tried to help... and who also voted for those who have no interest or care if they can afford Health Care. They would simply deserve what they get. I've had my savings once wiped out for having to pay out of pocket uncovered medical experiences.. even when the ex and I both had insurance.... it isn't a pleasant experience. IT is a major problem.. and what are the Republicans doing with it...  games.. political games just to manage a massive tax cut for the rich out of the fiscal savings. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2017 at 09:48
Pretty much. The tired ol "socialism/big guvmint/liberties/free markets" bullet points it really is brainwashing. A higher min wage, soc security, welfare, ACA/universal healthcare all would benefit most the states that least want it.
Funny because the south was so strongly Democratic during the new deal era because ya know, it was good for them, and now that's the bastion of anti New Deal thought. Those dark specters of race, then religion/social conservatism and anti unionism/fear of the S word sure did work. 

It's sad, you see on that map CA, NY, really all the higher income more blue states that would see less impact are the ones likely to back it. Shame we have to literally drag parts of the country kicking and screaming towards modernity, or even their own damn self benefit lol
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2017 at 12:47
and the dominoes start to fall... one stepcloser to retaking the house

Ileana Ros-Lehtinen announced her retiremnt from the House today.  District voted 70-30 Clinton... and fully expected by all to go to the Democratic challenger she barely beat in November. Perhaps she might have won in 2018 but apparently was tired of... being a Republican hahahha.  Was completely against the bullsh*t of the ACA repeal.. has a transgender child.. and thinks Trump is an a****le and unqualifed to boot.

why don't these people.. they do exist.. rational Republicans just face facts.. you've lost your party to wackos and lunatics. 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2017 at 13:04
Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

Also Trump continue to be a bully. Picks on an easy target, I mean Canada is about as low on the list of concern as can be,


thought about this for some Brian...  that goes to something which scares teh hell out of me.  Oh the domestic stuff.. we can fix.. there is little he can f**k up we won't fix in 2020. Obama was able to repair 8 years of Bush even if he will get little to no credit from it from many Americans.

What scares me most.. is that mentality applied on the foreign stage.  He has probably already found out what Obama learned..  talking tough about Isis Syria and Afganstan is well good and good on the campaign trail.. now he has to deliver.. that is a tough nut to crack for experts, though experienced in world affairs. 

Yet especially with spining his tires and butting up against the Democratic Party he has completely alienated and his own fractured party he has got nothing of any substance accomplished.. and to be honest... the chances he will are very slim.  The window on his control of Congress is closing.. and god help him or anyone if they think he'll find the Democrats willing to play with him. He'll be lucky if the first thing they don't do is draw up Artciles of Impeachment against him. He'll be lucky if all they do is get rid of the obstuctions and proceed iwth independent investigations of him and his administration.

what scares me most if short of being able to accomplish much.. he'll go the for might appear to be an easy target. North Korea.  Easier perhaps.. to look tough and drop some bombs.. but a 1000 times messier if (when) they said f**k it and just unleash hell upon the one of the worlds largest economies not to mention millions of innocent civilians. All because he thought it was a good idea to shake a stick in a rattlesnake pit.

The resulting chaos, death and destruction would makeBush's unnecessary war mongering in Iraq that a decade+ later is still a f**king mess.... look like kids play in comparison.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2017 at 21:00
Well, well, well...treason just won't go away. It seems Mike Pence, the constipated reincarnation of Salem witchcraft judge William Stoughton, has likely lied about the vetting process that he and his staff performed on Russian lackey Mike Flynn. Which means Spicer lied. Which means Trump lied...


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to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2017 at 21:16
hahah... oh that's too funny...

so what's it going to be in 2018 a two for one sale.. why impeach one.. which you can do both.. and the best part.. take the Presidency and have Nancy f**king Pelosi as goddamned President LMAO!!!

*spits wine all over monitor*

and who says Karma isn't real....

in all serousness...  they've already been headed this mess off on the twitterverse.. they're blaming Obama (of course) for Flynn's vetting. Sounds stupid but .. it works!!!

 And you know what.. I bet there are millions of his supporters that..well aren't paying attention because that.. well .. that is what Trump voter is good at.. advancing the art of ignorance.

but many who might turn in to Rush.. or Fox.. or Breitbart..... will believe it. Good times...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2017 at 00:33
Yeah that's the fear Mick. Domestic policy is tough and complicated, but foreign policy the President has pretty clear supremacy. Tis the point after all, we want a Commander in Chief but a weak executive on the home front. So Trump's...personality and style, certainly is a bit alarming. 

Though on the domestic front, Trump had a "very friendly" talk with Filipino President Rodrigo Duterte, praising him and inviting him to the WH some day. This is the guy famous for being a "law and order" mayor where he just had anyone accused of being a drug criminal killed without question and encouraged vigilante (or is it mob?) justice. He called Obama a "son of a whore" that can "go to hell", threatened to pull out of the "stupid"  because Ban Ki-moon was a disrespectful "son of a bitch" and said as Mayor he "should've been first" to rape a Missionary who was gang raped, only half assedly apologizing for the comment. I'm sure Trump is 100% sincere, this is clearly the type of guy Trump could be good friends with! 

No shock there Dark Elf. I never believed Pence was innocent in all this. How can you be?? He's the VP, a powerful one with a lot of say, and had no idea about any of that and was just chilling while all the bad doers around him were at fault? Please. Glad to see more of the muck is bubbling up to the surface. Hope they all get taken down, by taking part in this shameful farce for your benefit, I hope all their careers end up trashed. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2017 at 00:49
Speaking of domestic policy being difficult:

Congress has actually agreed on a spending bill! This avoids a government shutdown and keeps it running until the end of September. 
The bill includes a $15 billion boost for the Pentagon and $1.5 for border security. 
However, funding for building the wall was denied, as was $18 billion in cuts to domestic agencies. Also denied were restrictions on regulations. Planned Parenthood remains funded, the National Institutes of Health gets a $2 billion boost. 

That $1.5 billion can't even be spent on more border patrol agents, and sanctuary cities remain untouched. 

That is pretty much a clear Democratic victory. 
Another swing and a miss Trump! 

Jeez who knew being President was so hard?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2017 at 09:27
My series of "Glorious Quotes by our Beloved Guide" continues: 

"People don’t realize, you know, the Civil War, you think about it, why? People don’t ask that question, but why was there the Civil War? Why could that one not be worked out?"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2017 at 10:28
I swear that I can hear this man spinning in his grave. It's time for another New Deal.
This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2017 at 11:17
^Good point, but this time there is no Middle Eastern nation interested in dealing a 'Faustian bargain' pact with the devil (nor a viable one for that, if you are talking from an opposite perspective).
The overwhelming amount of information on a daily basis restrains people from rewinding the news record archives to refresh their memories...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2017 at 17:52
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

My series of "Glorious Quotes by our Beloved Guide" continues: 

"People don’t realize, you know, the Civil War, you think about it, why? People don’t ask that question, but why was there the Civil War? Why could that one not be worked out?"

Yes T., but Trump doubled down on his imbecility by uttering the bizarre notion that Andrew Jackson could have headed off the Civil War. LOL Let's ignore the fact that Jackson died 16 years before the Civil War, Dead but he was also an unapologetic slave-holder who posted bounties on escaped slaves, and thus would have no inclination to reach rapprochement with Lincoln regarding eliminating slavery from Confederate states like Tennessee (where Jackson held his slaves).Confused


Edited by The Dark Elf - May 01 2017 at 17:52
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2017 at 19:43
We've been in a sort of cold civil war since the Civil War ended.  The 1960s was evidence of that with Southern states violently opposing desegregation and military officers threatening politicians.  Frankly it was far worse then, though there are similarities with what's happening now in France [in 1962 deGalle was nearly assassinated when his car was sprayed with machine gun fire by dissident French army officers], Russia [who had plenty of spies in the US of course], and a big upswell of support on both political sides.

"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2017 at 22:34
Holy crap. This thread has made me feel so much better. On other music forums I try to avoid political discussions because even when there's more rational people, they're outnumbered by the people who want to "give Trump a chance" or are all the way to supporting him no matter what.

Here... here, everyone seems to get why this is so bad.

Thank you for being a forum full of rational people.


Edited by NateHevens - May 01 2017 at 22:35
Great Guitar Solos - My favorite guitar solos...
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micky View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2017 at 13:29
*spits beer on monitor*

if you say so LOL  We try our best ..to be.. umm.. rational.
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