Why dont many girls like prog?

Raff wrote: ... women as a whole tend to look at the big picture rather than obsess about the tiniest detail.

Really? Where did that come from? Why is this perception that I've never noticed ever ever ever in my life so obviously true, as opposed to the ubiquitously made observation that women (tend) to not like Prog? If we're explaining away one purported myth with another purported myth we're not making much progress.

I think part of the reason why there are not as many women who like prog as men is cultural. Children learn gender roles at a young age and the media often intentionally or unintentionally reinforces a set of cultural norms, such how certain behaviors are not ladylike. Although it might not go to the extent it has in the past, I think that the idea that women are the gentler sex promoted the idea that they should be more polite, passive and meant to be pursued. Think of how in many situational comedies, the women are portrayed as the voice of reason compared to the antics of the male lead. If I'm being honest with myself, I'll admit some of my own views are misogynistic.

I am reminded of a 2014 review of 1986 video game Alter Ego, written by Jimmy Maher, aka The Digital Antiquarian, whose blog chronicles the history of video games, with an emphasis on interactive fiction (aka text-based adventures):
"As with a lot of games I write about, I played Alter Ego with my wife Dorte. She played with the female version, I with the male, and we took turns playing through a life phase at a time and comparing notes. Our agreed approach was to each play ourselves, making the choices we thought we would make at those ages in those situations. As we played, I found myself getting more and more angry at the game and sad for Dorte, as I kept getting to do cool and/or bold things and she kept being offered only meek girlie stuff. I got to go skydiving; she got to get an eyebrow tattoo. I slashed a hated teacher’s tires; she got a new hairdo. I got to buy video equipment or a flash new computer; she got to buy jewelry or “gourmet cooking accessories.” She always got offered the subordinate role, the pretty girl cheering on the boys who were actually doing something. I got to try out for the baseball team; she got to try out for the cheerleading squad. I got to start a rock band with some buddies; she got to call in to a radio show and win backstage passes to a concert."

Also, progressive rock was long seen by society as a nerdy hobby, together with pastimes such as science fiction, fantasy, role-playing games, wargames, programming and video games. Nerds are generally depicted as being unpopular, overweight or scrawny, having poor social skills, poor fashion sense, poor hygiene, in other words, the complete opposite of a conventionally attractive woman. I think this reason also plays a role in how fewer women work in the STEM fields (science, technology, engineering, mathematics). In fact, the media still generally portrays being an actress, singer or fashion model as the acme of success for women.

Additionally, the great majority of prog musicians are male (as in many other fields), so I can understand if some feel a lack of inclusion. I think this also plays a role in why fewer women pursue STEM careers. In many fields, characteristics such as boldness, aggressiveness, rebelliousness, stubbornness and challenging convention are lauded, the very things women were instilled to eschew.

That is not to say I think that cultural norms are entirely responsible for fewer women being interested in prog compared to men. I do think women are better at reading and interpreting social cues, expressing empathy and that social interactions play a more important role in their lives. As such, I can see how many women could prefer to listen to the same music their friends listen or to music that is meant to be enjoyed in a social context, such as parties, dancing, or karaoke.

On an unrelated note, the thought just occurred to me that certain conditions, such as color blindness, affect men disproportionately compared to women due to the fact that women have two X chromosomes (which are responsible for a lot of mental functions), so that if there is a recessive gene on one chromosome, its can still be masked if the other X chromosome has the dominant allele. Thus, the same X chromosome has a normalizing effect. I do not claim to be an authority on genetics beyond what I remember from high school and this is pure speculation on my part, but perhaps this same effect might be responsible for some of the rather colorful personalities in the music world and why more men might be interested in the innovations characteristic to prog. After writing this entire paragraph out, I realized I am basically claiming that men have a higher rate of incidence for a "prog gene". Maybe I need some sleep...


Edited by Replayer - April 27 2017 at 23:45

Because prog bands are full of mostly unkempt hairy, ugly men who are up themselves (!).

No one likes prog so why should women be left out of the equation?
There are maybe 37 prog fans worldwide. My take is that at least 12 are women if not transgendered.

Why do most men dislike Twilight?

Replayer wrote: I think part of the reason why there are not as many women who like prog as men is cultural. Children learn gender roles at a young age and the media often intentionally or unintentionally reinforces a set of cultural norms, such how certain behaviors are not ladylike. Although it might not go to the extent it has in the past, I think that the idea that women are the gentler sex promoted the idea that they should be more polite, passive and meant to be pursued. Think of how in many situational comedies, the women are portrayed as the voice of reason compared to the antics of the male lead. If I'm being honest with myself, I'll admit some of my own views are misogynistic. I am reminded of a 2014 review of 1986 video game Alter Ego, written by Jimmy Maher, aka The Digital Antiquarian, whose blog chronicles the history of video games, with an emphasis on interactive fiction (aka text-based adventures): "As with a lot of games I write about, I played Alter Ego with my wife Dorte. She played with the female version, I with the male, and we took turns playing through a life phase at a time and comparing notes. Our agreed approach was to each play ourselves, making the choices we thought we would make at those ages in those situations. As we played, I found myself getting more and more angry at the game and sad for Dorte, as I kept getting to do cool and/or bold things and she kept being offered only meek girlie stuff. I got to go skydiving; she got to get an eyebrow tattoo. I slashed a hated teacher’s tires; she got a new hairdo. I got to buy video equipment or a flash new computer; she got to buy jewelry or “gourmet cooking accessories.” She always got offered the subordinate role, the pretty girl cheering on the boys who were actually doing something. I got to try out for the baseball team; she got to try out for the cheerleading squad. I got to start a rock band with some buddies; she got to call in to a radio show and win backstage passes to a concert." Also, progressive rock was long seen by society as a nerdy hobby, together with pastimes such as science fiction, fantasy, role-playing games, wargames, programming and video games. Nerds are generally depicted as being unpopular, overweight or scrawny, having poor social skills, poor fashion sense, poor hygiene, in other words, the complete opposite of a conventionally attractive woman. I think this reason also plays a role in how fewer women work in the STEM fields (science, technology, engineering, mathematics). In fact, the media still generally portrays being an actress, singer or fashion model as the acme of success for women. Additionally, the great majority of prog musicians are male (as in many other fields), so I can understand if some feel a lack of inclusion. I think this also plays a role in why fewer women pursue STEM careers. In many fields, characteristics such as boldness, aggressiveness, rebelliousness, stubbornness and challenging convention are lauded, the very things women were instilled to eschew. That is not to say I think that cultural norms are entirely responsible for fewer women being interested in prog compared to men. I do think women are better at reading and interpreting social cues, expressing empathy and that social interactions play a more important role in their lives. As such, I can see how many women could prefer to listen to the same music their friends listen or to music that is meant to be enjoyed in a social context, such as parties, dancing, or karaoke. On an unrelated note, the thought just occurred to me that certain conditions, such as color blindness, affect men disproportionately compared to women due to the fact that women have two X chromosomes (which are responsible for a lot of mental functions), so that if there is a recessive gene on one chromosome, its can still be masked if the other X chromosome has the dominant allele. Thus, the same X chromosome has a normalizing effect. I do not claim to be an authority on genetics beyond what I remember from high school and this is pure speculation on my part, but perhaps this same effect might be responsible for some of the rather colorful personalities in the music world and why more men might be interested in the innovations characteristic to prog. After writing this entire paragraph out, I realized I am basically claiming that men have a higher rate of incidence for a "prog gene". Maybe I need some sleep...

I've found I think and work best the less sleep I get Interesting post... if way over-complicating it.

Again.. plenty of women like prog.  It goes back to my tongue in cheek post...  perhaps due to those cultural norms or whatever but it goes beyond merely liking or not liking the music.  I've been to prog shows of current bands where it was a rough 50-50 split men to women.. what men feel the need to do that women apparantly do not... is identify themselves through the music they like which leads them to sites like this that they can revel with others in their 'superior' tastes and overpowering tastes and intellects. Women.. pfff.. they don't have the time or inclination to beat their chests as men do. They enjoy what they do and leave it at that. It doesn't define who they are as many men seem apt to do.. with music.. or their politics.. or whatever.

Larkstongue41 wrote: No gender judgment here but from my experience men are generally much more into music  (not just prog) than females. Maybe it's just my generation. Also now that I think of it, I believe women are much more inclined towards visual arts. Perhaps that could be an interesting case to study actually....

Guldbamsen wrote: No one likes prog so why should women be left out of the equation? There are maybe 37 prog fans worldwide. My take is that at least 12 are women if not transgendered. Why do most men dislike Twilight?

37 ?!?!?! I think you might be counting yourself twice.


Re: Twitlight. Personally, my manhood is threatened by buff, tan, teenage vampires.
Honestly, I don't know any adults who enjoy it, regardless of gender.

Pekka wrote: micky wrote: Pekka wrote: I once spent a long night with a girl I sort of vaguely knew, chatting on MSN Messenger (is that still a thing?) about all the cool bands we were digging up from the PA database as we talked. Discovering stuff like PFM, Isildur's Bane, Novalis etc. together. That was 12 years ago - now we've been married for six years, have two kids and about 2400 albums. They're out there somewhere, you might bump into one when you least expect it. awesome man... good see ya Pekka.. and that isn't enough.. kids or albums  and no one understands that better than me  Oh albums I agree on, but kids... our mutual understanding now, having made it out of the baby years relatively sane, is that babies are perfectly fine as long as you can hand them to someone else when they start making demanding noises. In fact both by sister and brother are having kids this year, super happy for them. I guess it's time for my yearly check-in at PA, nice to see you still around, I hope you and Raff are doing well

sane and with the marriage intact... well done for it sure isn't easy is it. Yeah we are still doing great and loving life and each others company (ie she hasn't tired of me yet). 

Good to still some of the old crew still drop by and check in.. see again next year I suppose!

The female cat I am currently fostering seems to enjoy prog more than the male cat I had for many years

micky wrote: kenethlevine wrote: The female cat I am currently fostering seems to enjoy prog more than the male cat I had for many years now that would be a fascinating detour for this thread ..  we all think we know about the differences between men and women... but male and female cats?? Who really knows what cats think.. much less female cats