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Rednight 
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Joined: January 18 2014
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 Topic: ELP: In Defense of Tarkus over Brain Salad Surgery
Posted: April 20 2017 at 15:22 |
 Flight123 wrote:
Some of us like complexity and experimentation. Nothing can be 'too prog'. You have dissed two of my favourite all time albums!! |
Here, here, mo-fo!
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"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno
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dr prog
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Joined: September 25 2010
Location: Melbourne
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Points: 2528
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Posted: April 20 2017 at 15:13 |
mechanicalflattery wrote:
Why anybody would defend Tarkus side 2, some of the most embarrassingly terrible material ever produced by the "classic" prog era, is beyond me. Infinite Space (Conclusion) alone is so clunky and incompetent that it usually has me cracking up, and that's not mentioning those "comedic" bookend tracks. That being said, I have no bone to pick. Enjoy what you enjoy, I suppose. |
Side 2 is better than side 1. Some boring parts on side 1. Some people in here just don't have the right balance of melody, complexity and experimentation 
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All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
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M27Barney
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Joined: November 09 2006
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Posted: April 20 2017 at 05:04 |
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Tarkus has the title track, BSS has KE9 FI Pts 1 & 2 and TI.....the rest of the compositions are nowhere near as good as these. such inconsistency is the bain of ELP.
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KingCrInuYasha
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Joined: September 26 2010
Location: USA
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Points: 1281
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Posted: April 19 2017 at 22:53 |
dr prog wrote:
Bss is too prog just like Relayer is. Rather than having 40 minutes of strong composition, it has over pompous, over complex or over experimental plop |
So, basically Lou Reed's Metal Machine Music or Pink Floyd's "John Latham".
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He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball!
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hellogoodbye
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Posted: April 19 2017 at 05:52 |
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Personally,I prefer Tarkus over BSS ... and their first album over those two.
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Flight123
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Location: Sohar, Oman
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Posted: April 19 2017 at 05:21 |
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Some of us like complexity and experimentation. Nothing can be 'too prog'. You have dissed two of my favourite all time albums!!
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dr prog
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Joined: September 25 2010
Location: Melbourne
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Points: 2528
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Posted: April 19 2017 at 05:06 |
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Bss is too prog just like Relayer is. Rather than having 40 minutes of strong composition, it has over pompous, over complex or over experimental plop
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All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
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prog4evr
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Joined: September 22 2005
Location: Wuhan, China
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Points: 1455
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Posted: April 19 2017 at 01:11 |
uduwudu wrote:
The best one stop shop is the WBMFTTSTNE live album. You get it all in one set. What a band, what a performance and all the greatest hits....
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Eloquently stated...
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miamiscot
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Location: Ohio
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Posted: April 13 2017 at 15:21 |
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They are both great. Throw in the debut and Trilogy and you've got a legendary act right there. Maybe they'll hit the Big Time at some point...
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Jeffro
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Joined: March 29 2014
Location: USA
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Points: 2201
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Posted: April 10 2017 at 09:31 |
I think Tarkus (the song itself) as a single piece is stronger than all three impressions of Karn Evil 9.
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We all dwell in an amber subdomain, amber subdomain, amber subdomain.
My face IS a maserati
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geekfreak
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Joined: June 21 2013
Location: Musical Garden
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Posted: April 10 2017 at 07:18 |
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Tarkus or Brain Salad Surgery hmmm its a question which has had a million different answer so there`s isn't a answers which will be a plus or minus to this one...
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Friedrich Nietzsche: "Without music, life would be a mistake."
Music Is Live
Two people are better off than one, for they can help each other succeed.
Keep Calm And Listen To The Music…
<
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Bilek
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Posted: March 30 2017 at 15:48 |
uduwudu wrote:
The best one stop shop is the WBMFTTSTNE live album. You get it all in one set. What a band, what a performance and all the greatest hits. |
I'd probably agree, if not for the overblown drum solo iin the middle of KE9. Don't get me wrong, I love drums (one of my top ten musicians is Christian Vander, and drumkit is the only instrument I can ever come close to playing ), and Palmer is a heck of a drummer, but what works as a short percussion interlude in that particular section just doesn't work as an extended drum solo (and cuts off the song's flow). I feel the same way about Ian Paice's solos in DP concerts, as much as he's in my top ten drummers list...
uduwudu wrote:
Two major works and why one has to be "better" than the other is beyond me. Now which is the best intro - the awesome piano riff from Tarkus or the quiet spooky thing from Karn Evil? I really wish this had been a developed piece of its own.
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Amen to that. I simply can't distinguish between the two albums. In fact, I simply can't distinguish between the first five, with the possible exception of Pictures, because of relying too much on blues in places... (I could take Isle of Wight or Mar y Sol in its lieu anytime!)
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Listen to Turkish psych/prog; you won't regret:
Baris Manco,Erkin Koray,Cem Karaca,Mogollar,3 Hürel,Selda,Edip Akbayram,Fikret Kizilok,Ersen (and Dadaslar) (but stick with the '70's, and 'early 80's!)
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moshkito
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Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
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Points: 18149
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Posted: March 29 2017 at 08:07 |
Emerlist Davjack wrote:
uduwudu wrote:
Two major works and why one has to be "better" than the other is beyond me. |
I'm inclined to agree with you. I only feel the need to offer an apologia for Tarkus because so many people seem to think BSS is "better." It's all subjective, at the end of the day, of course. |
Agreed.
For the time it was released, I think that TARKUS is a much more important album, and its strength is it's power.
By the time of BSS, I am not sure that ELP was as important to me, as other bands were (specially in Europe), and while I do not dislike the piece and just recently listened to it again (after listening to some classical music!), and it stood up fine. But of all ELP's work, the album that hits me best ... is TARKUS ... don't tell me lies ... pound ... pound ... pound (the bass drum!), and it really tells you what ELP was about ... it wasn't just music! It was rock music at its very best!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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Emerlist Davjack
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Joined: March 19 2017
Location: Sacramento
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Posted: March 27 2017 at 01:17 |
uduwudu wrote:
Two major works and why one has to be "better" than the other is beyond me. |
I'm inclined to agree with you. I only feel the need to offer an apologia for Tarkus because so many people seem to think BSS is "better." It's all subjective, at the end of the day, of course.
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Dellinger
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Posted: March 27 2017 at 00:21 |
uduwudu wrote:
The best one stop shop is the WBMFTTSTNE live album. You get it all in one set. What a band, what a performance and all the greatest hits.
Two major works and why one has to be "better" than the other is beyond me. Now which is the best intro - the awesome piano riff from Tarkus or the quiet spooky thing from Karn Evil? I really wish this had been a developed piece of its own.
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I usually do like live versions of songs... often better than the originals... but ELP somehoe doesn't work well for me live. I'm not sure what it is, but they usually spoil what I did like from the studio originals.
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Dellinger
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Posted: March 27 2017 at 00:15 |
Flight123 wrote:
The Tarkus/Brain Salad debate depends on the material that supports the main fare (i.e Karn Evil 9 and Tarkus itself). Both tracks are among the finest, most exciting rock music of the late 20th century - their influence spreading outside of the confines of 'prog'. Side 2 of Tarkus itself is wonderful - I even love the whacked out piano from Keith on 'Eddie'. On Brain Salad, you get the breathtaking, audacious 'Toccata'. For me, both albums are on a par amongst the greatest. What I find astounding is the hostility to ELP some 40 years later when the high priests of cool declared ELP toxic...(and some of this attitude lingers on a site that calls itself 'Prog Archives') |
And it's exactly the Tarkus / Karn Evil comparison that makes me go for Tarkus. I mostly love the Tarkus thing (except for the middle "Mass" section, which is the exact example of why I don't regard ELP higher), while Karn Evil doesn't really do much for me. I don't think it's bad, it just doesn't give me much enjoyment. As for the other songs from both albums, my favourite by far is Toccata.
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cstack3
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Posted: March 26 2017 at 11:33 |
I love Lake's lead-guitar playing on BSS, but the Hammond organ tones on Tarkus are SO nasty!
I'd say they are evolutionary, and it is hard to pick one over the other.
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Kepler62
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Posted: March 26 2017 at 09:48 |
Flight123 wrote:
I would agree about the live album - in particular the extended 'Aquatarkus': awesome. |
I would third that 
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micky
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Posted: March 26 2017 at 08:46 |
Flight123 wrote:
micky wrote:
yeah... but understand my point.. boring.. only in comparison to the incredible heights of the first 2 Impressions. Compared to those.. yeah.. it strikes me as some sort of Genesis nod and puts me to sleep. It isn't bad.. god knows it isn't no PoLHK kind of sh*t sandwich/failure.. but no.. it was the musically equivalent of the teasing redhead who gets you to 3rd base..whoo hooo... then wantonly picks you off on the way to home ...and sends you to the showers.
that was the 3rd Impression
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Ha ha! I get it! I read somewhere that Genesis's management didn't want to put out 'The Cinema Show' as it sounded too much like ELP... |
hahha.. now that makes TOO much sense... not that I ever associated it with ELP. Banks was many things.. but not anything approaching Emerson.. but that was the finest thing Genesis did do in the lost years of their art rock fixation.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Flight123
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Joined: September 01 2010
Location: Sohar, Oman
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Points: 1399
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Posted: March 26 2017 at 07:30 |
Guldbamsen wrote:
Maybe it's just down to a simple thing. Some bands pass through the ages and still sound as fresh as the day it was spawned whilst others like ELP seem destined to fall completely out of favour. Most of this is bollocks incarnate but one can't deny the fact that many rock and prog fans to have come on board 'after the event', for some reason, find ELP nigh on ridiculous. Many of us (like myself) do fully understand and respect the impact they had on rock music during the 70s, which is something that no one can ever take away from them. I still never listen to ELP though apart from Tarkus which I absolutely adore. I'm not sure you can blame it on the priests of cool either. I take pride in listening to unhip music and know quite a few likeminded brethren.
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Having lived through the dissolution of ELP, I recall the venom of the music press in the late 70s and how trendy it was to Sl*g them off ('Welcome back, bell-ends... etc) In retrospect, they seem to set themselves up a bit although arguably the cover to Love Beach was a triumph of post-modern irony.
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ELP: In Defense of Tarkus over Brain Salad Surgery
