The American Politics Thread

^ I don't think any president could be worse than Nixon.   Nixon was sick, twisted and paranoid (with good reason).   At least Trump is a non-pol.

Last prez most revered?   Obama will eventually become revered, but I guess some might actually say Reagan.   But it's JFK in my house.

And the answer to the question will always be Abraham Lincoln.  

SteveG wrote: And the answer to the question will always be Abraham Lincoln.

The Dark Elf wrote: SteveG wrote: And the answer to the question will always be Abraham Lincoln.   I'm not sure how "revered" Lincoln was or is south of the Mason-Dixon line. Beyond honest Abe and Washington, FDR for most of the country and Reagan for the rest. Kennedy is still loved in Ireland where my cousins still have his portrait up in their parlor.

yeah... ignoring the south...  don't forget he was quite unpopular in the north. Freeing the slaves was NOT a universally beloved idea in the north. He came within a hair wisker of losing the '64 election.  If he hadn't have had the solders released to vote.. he would have lost.

and the south?  Yeah.. it is fair to say he is still not beloved... so much so they still get their digs in on him by calling their party of bigotry, white power, and states rights .. the party of Lincoln.

agree...  there are none...   if one wants to choose Reagan.. beloved among those who voted for him.. loathed among those that didn't.  You could choose a more recent example. William Jefferson Clinton.


Edited by micky - April 08 2017 at 06:13

On more somber news. 

micky wrote: The Dark Elf wrote: SteveG wrote: And the answer to the question will always be Abraham Lincoln.   I'm not sure how "revered" Lincoln was or is south of the Mason-Dixon line. Beyond honest Abe and Washington, FDR for most of the country and Reagan for the rest. Kennedy is still loved in Ireland where my cousins still have his portrait up in their parlor. yeah... ignoring the south...  don't forget he was quite unpopular in the north. Freeing the slaves was NOT a universally beloved idea in the north. He came within a hair wisker of losing the '64 election.  If he hadn't have had the solders released to vote.. he would have lost. and the south?  Yeah.. it is fair to say he is still not beloved... so much so they still get their digs in on him by calling their party of bigotry, white power, and states rights .. the party of Lincoln. agree...  there are none...   if one wants to choose Reagan.. beloved among those who voted for him.. loathed among those that didn't.  You could choose a more recent example. William Jefferson Clinton.

Part of reverence is becoming mythologised over decades after being killed, even by one's enemies. Lincoln will always be the benchmark of the great American President that preserved the Union and the US Constitution.

As for the GOP future. I don't know, I still don't get why: Since the older folk are the ones who keep rebelling against attempts to be more moderate and open on the race stuff, as they die out...doesn't that just mean the GOP would be more able to outreach and change their tactics/framing? The thing holding them back from doing so would be gone. 

Edited by JJLehto - April 08 2017 at 12:37

Finnforest wrote: You're right, Brian.  I think Micky assumes that everyone your age is automatically a lefty for life, simply because they are in college with the political views and peers that often entails.  Guess what? College kids get older and their views can change once they have kids, mortgages, and more of life's problems.  They are not lockstep to the rigidity of their college prof's political wet dreams.  And on the other end, Micky assumes that only Republican voters die.  I'll tell you this.  My Mom is in her 80s, and without question ALL of her social group are Kennedy era Democrats who faithfully show up at every election to pull the straight Dem ticket.  They are among the most faithful Dems I've ever witnessed.  Guess what, they also die just like Republican old people.  I should know, we are going to funerals as often as we buy groceries it seems.  So while it might be tempting for all you lefties here to assume the Demographic snapshot looks good when you look at Millennial opinion, you have a problem with both ends just like center-rights have.  I do agree that many of the data points look better for your side, but not to the extent that they can't be countered/altered by strategy and/or world events for many years to come.  Even immigrants to this country, while they may vote overwhelmingly Dem early on, I think they can be quite conservative as well, and even economically so once they get involved in a new business with concerns about their taxes.  I think the US will be a toss up for many years to come, trending your way perhaps, but not nearly as quickly, nor cut and dried as some here believe.  It's a little messier than that, and I think the pendulum  will swing back and forth for years to come.

I think this is a brilliant short essay on political facts and realities.

Finnforest wrote: You're right, Brian.  I think Micky assumes that everyone your age is automatically a lefty for life, simply because they are in college with the political views and peers that often entails.  Guess what? College kids get older and their views can change once they have kids, mortgages, and more of life's problems.  They are not lockstep to the rigidity of their college prof's political wet dreams.  And on the other end, Micky assumes that only Republican voters die.  I'll tell you this.  My Mom is in her 80s, and without question ALL of her social group are Kennedy era Democrats who faithfully show up at every election to pull the straight Dem ticket.  They are among the most faithful Dems I've ever witnessed.  Guess what, they also die just like Republican old people.  I should know, we are going to funerals as often as we buy groceries it seems.  So while it might be tempting for all you lefties here to assume the Demographic snapshot looks good when you look at Millennial opinion, you have a problem with both ends just like center-rights have.  I do agree that many of the data points look better for your side, but not to the extent that they can't be countered/altered by strategy and/or world events for many years to come.  Even immigrants to this country, while they may vote overwhelmingly Dem early on, I think they can be quite conservative as well, and even economically so once they get involved in a new business with concerns about their taxes.  I think the US will be a toss up for many years to come, trending your way perhaps, but not nearly as quickly, nor cut and dried as some here believe.  It's a little messier than that, and I think the pendulum  will swing back and forth for years to come.

oh no Jim...  you'lll have to forgive me for not being 100% clear in my post. It is something I've posted of many times so that was the cliff note version.  It is not about age... its never been about age.... it is all about race and demographics.

the white vote.. regardless of age... which favors the GOP by a large margin is decreasing by approximately 2% every 4 years in regards to the overall population. The greater question.. and the one at the direct heart of my post is does that rapidly growing minority population... to be a majority of the US population perhaps in our lifetimes.... does it remain Democratic.  Nothing to do with age... it is the policies of the right that have driven them into the Democratic party. If that party does not change.. stops fighting what can not be fought.. it will make itself policitally extinct as yes... the white population ages and dies and is otherwise overwhelmed by new minority arrivals and their much higher birth rates.

as we talked about way back in teh original thread. Of course the Republican party will change.. it will have no choice but to. They are aware of the reality of it... but for various reason (like political suicide) those in charge of the party have chosen to pull a 'climate change' style of politics.. close their eyes and continue to pander to white fears and bigotry and hope they are out of office and retired when the butchers bill comes due and someone else will have to fix the electoral/demographic mess the GOP has been walking straight into for years.  They may change... likely will change.. but the question is... will it be too late. If the GOP alienates the Hispanic population as throughly as it has done the blacks.. it is game over for them.

it isn't about age... it is about race and demographics.


Edited by micky - April 08 2017 at 16:29

data points.. yeah you could call them that.  We came into a world Jim where this country was over 80% white... we'll leave it with it being less than 50%. No there is no lockstep.. no more than me being older, white and well off makes me a f**king Republican.  However the trends and numbers are what they are.  Whites are driven by fear of losing their 'white America' and vote Republican.. even in the face of their own economic self interests... and minorities. sure some vote Republican.. perhaps buying the economic bullsh*t.. but the very large majority understand that voting GOP is like being Jewish and voting for the Nazi Party in the 30's. They are blamed by the party, and their supporters for the ills of nation... make America great. A code word for making America white again

not sure what news outlets you have Jim... or what you tune into but there are plenty of stories out there about the issues and the politics involved with them. As far and the nothingburgers... well... blame the voters that put a man who was morally, ethically and simply tempermentally unsuited to be President into the White House. God help us if the Press stops doing its job.. its function as a watchdog of the governement.