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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
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Points: 16130
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Topic: Your living standards Posted: April 03 2017 at 03:24 |
Would you be prepared to accept a drop in living standards for the "greater good" In other words would you happily surrender more of your income in taxation to support those with less than you in the name of addressing income inequality, and addressing the challenges of poverty.
Do you trust government to clearly define what the "greater good" really is, and not to use your tax revenue to simply fund tax cuts for their friends, the "actual rich"
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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someone_else
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: May 02 2008
Location: Going Bananas
Status: Offline
Points: 24295
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Posted: April 03 2017 at 07:35 |
It's not because I'm reluctant to pay taxes, but I don't rely on the government to define the "greater good" in days like these, when many (Western European) countries seem to have developed autoimmune diseases.
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Vompatti
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: October 22 2005
Location: elsewhere
Status: Offline
Points: 67407
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Posted: April 03 2017 at 08:11 |
I doubt any government would agree with me on what the greater good is.
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Meltdowner
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 25 2013
Location: Portugal
Status: Offline
Points: 10232
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Posted: April 03 2017 at 08:30 |
I already pay a lot of taxes and we're still seen as burden to Europe so, no, I don't trust the government.
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group
Site Admin
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Status: Offline
Points: 35804
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Posted: April 03 2017 at 08:43 |
Yes, with many reservations. I don't trust the government with taxes as they show themselves to be extremely wasteful, nor do I expect that any one "adminstration"'s greater good would quite jibe with my expectations. I would like to see that the government that chooses to raise taxes is also tightening their belts and dropping their standard of living. I would want a long-term approach that will protect the environment as much as possible, and I would like to see population control as part of the equation. I want efficient spending and efficient birthing.
In the meantime, I do think it far too unfair that most children are growing up in poverty while others are born with silver spoons up their nostrils. I don't wish to support bludgers, and I don't think it's fair that many of us in the so-called middle class of income choose to limit our number of children, while others who are very poor keep on pumping out babies for the rest of us to support. That said, I don't blame it on the babies, and think that those children should be adequately supported.
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
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Posted: April 03 2017 at 09:00 |
The trouble is defining the greater good. Do you give out fish to poor people or do you teach poor people to fish. Both cost money and politics and economics only takes a short term view, because politicos have to win votes every four years. Long term strategies mean sacrifice AND long term investment.
From a UK perspective I actually don't buy into the ruse that there is no money (or just limited money) for society's most vulnerable. If there's hundreds of billions for bank bailouts and war, then there is money to make sure that disabled pensioners don't have to sleep in their own piss. Film director Ken Loach described it as 'conscious cruelty' in other words ideologically driven and intentional, and I'm inclined to agree.
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: April 03 2017 at 09:14 |
Yes, with reservations. Adding a few quid a week to my tax bill and NI contributions to ensure that the NHS and Education remain out of private ownership and that benefit payments are not unfairly sacrificed are perfectly acceptable. I find the mere suggestion that benefit cuts should be used in a punitive way just to appease the blue-rinse brigade to be morally abhorrent. In return for this reduction in my living standards I want government to be far more open and accountable than it currently is as no government should ever be unconditionally trusted regardless of how squeaky clean they are - any government who objects to this has something to hide, which makes them guilty by default.
But most of all I want us to go back to employing and fully utilising "experts" - the current madness of summarily dismissing the advice and recommendations of people who actually know and understand what they are talking about is crass stupidity.
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What?
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CPicard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 03 2008
Location: Là, sui monti.
Status: Offline
Points: 10841
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Posted: April 03 2017 at 09:31 |
Well, in regards to my living standards, the French government doesn't ask to pay taxes (the Paris municipality and the French public television do, though). Being unemployed half of the year gives you this kind of, er.... privilege?
By the way, having worked for the public administration many times as an archivist, I could adress some recommendations to the government to save some public funds (and thus, maybe, lower the taxes): stop wasting money on photocopies.
Seriously.
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Quinino
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 26 2011
Location: Portugal
Status: Offline
Points: 3654
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Posted: April 03 2017 at 09:35 |
I don't really know, tewnty/ thirty years ago I would certainly answer Yes (with the same reservations appointed by Dean, btw) - these are strange times and lately I find myself with little trust in the System
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group
Site Admin
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Status: Offline
Points: 35804
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Posted: April 03 2017 at 10:14 |
Teach them to fish longer-term, give them fish shorter-term. More importantly, try to ensure that plenty of fish will remain in the sea. Population control, as well as better management of resources, I think are important for the future of humanity. I feel that most efforts to alleviate poverty are merely band-aids, some of which may actually make long-term poverty worse.
Clearly the system is biased for the privileged as they have the power. There would be enough resources to go around for now if people weren't greedy and didn't over-consume. We do need to protect our environment if humanity is to survive and prosper.
It is a major problem that politicians only think to the next election when governments should be thinking both short-term and long-term. I think we have terrible systems that are systemically unfair. I probably won't be alive in another forty years, but I still care about that future, as I think many of us do. And I don't just care because I have kids that will be alive then (I felt guilty about having two kids). Those who are merely struggling to survive, and those that are greedy, may care less globally.
Edited by Logan - April 03 2017 at 10:17
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20240
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Posted: April 03 2017 at 10:21 |
Blacksword wrote:
Would you be prepared to accept a drop in living standards for the "greater good" In other words would you happily surrender more of your income in taxation to support those with less than you in the name of addressing income inequality, and addressing the challenges of poverty.
Do you trust government to clearly define what the "greater good" really is, and not to use your tax revenue to simply fund tax cuts for their friends, the "actual rich" |
Brexit geebies, Andy??
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Man With Hat
Collaborator
Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team
Joined: March 12 2005
Location: Neurotica
Status: Offline
Points: 166178
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Posted: April 03 2017 at 10:28 |
lol...I had an actual post (for once) that was denied by capcahta...oh well
I'm not going to type it all again so...option #2 for me
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Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
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Posted: April 03 2017 at 10:37 |
Not specifically, no. Public sending cuts to fund tax cuts for the rich is normal governmental behaviour in the UK. I suspect that principle will not change followng Brexit.
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65258
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Posted: April 03 2017 at 11:24 |
I might be persuaded to give up a small portion of income for a greater good, but not things like my home, possessions, etc. And I'd want to be sure the money would reach its intended targets, which I would be doubtful of.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group
Site Admin
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Status: Offline
Points: 35804
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Posted: April 03 2017 at 12:03 |
Imagine the joy you could bring by distributing your prog collection to the impoverished. Or maybe not... You can give a poor man a fish, you can teach a poor man to fish, but you can't make a man like a poor Fish (that line works better for Marillion fans).
Edited by Logan - April 03 2017 at 12:03
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: April 03 2017 at 13:22 |
I would be willing to lose a few bucks every month if that means everybody has access to universal health care, for example. Yes, fewer book purchases a month, fewer outing a month, that's fine.
The problem is the people who can't go from having two yachts to one yacht or who can't go from having 1.9 billion dollars to having 1.7 billion dollars, the poor souls.
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65258
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Posted: April 03 2017 at 13:27 |
Oh, well, fewer books? No, no, no that wouldn't do at all. I thought maybe less artisan chocolate or good whisky or something. Gotta have my books.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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HackettFan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Status: Offline
Points: 7951
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Posted: April 03 2017 at 18:48 |
Dean wrote:
Yes, with reservations. Adding a few quid a week to my tax bill and NI contributions to ensure that the NHS and Education remain out of private ownership and that benefit payments are not unfairly sacrificed are perfectly acceptable. I find the mere suggestion that benefit cuts should be used in a punitive way just to appease the blue-rinse brigade to be morally abhorrent. In return for this reduction in my living standards I want government to be far more open and accountable than it currently is as no government should ever be unconditionally trusted regardless of how squeaky clean they are - any government who objects to this has something to hide, which makes them guilty by default.
But most of all I want us to go back to employing and fully utilising "experts" - the current madness of summarily dismissing the advice and recommendations of people who actually know and understand what they are talking about is crass stupidity. | This exactly.
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A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now)
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Kepler62
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 09 2017
Location: Fort Erie
Status: Offline
Points: 501
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Posted: April 03 2017 at 18:58 |
i think that we all should be like Norwegians.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: April 03 2017 at 23:36 |
Kepler62 wrote:
i think that we all should be like Norwegians. |
Be grumpy vikings who live on fish and potatoes?
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