^ He's saying he thinks voters will vote for someone else at the midterm elections if members reject the healthcare bill.  The president can't fire them.  That said, Lyndon Johnson was known for threats and coercion but he was a lifelong career politician and had tons of influence and political capital by 1964.  Trump is a green amateur compared to LBJ.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkhCqFG6Qv0&t=506s  

Edited by Kepler62 - March 21 2017 at 06:44

Atavachron wrote: One wonders if Trump was fed the story to provoke him into the idiotic frenzy that it did.   On the other hand, he really needs no help at all.

Edited by The Dark Elf - March 20 2017 at 20:04

GRIPPING YOUR PILLOW TIGHT

So now we can all sleep.

HackettFan wrote: micky wrote: HackettFan wrote: progaardvark wrote: The only items getting increases are military- and national security-related. The U.S. already spends more than any other country in the world on military, more than twice what China spends (who ranks second). My prediction is they'll pick another country to invade, run up another damned huge deficit, and then another Democratic president will be forced to deal with another GOD-DAMNED REPUBLICAN MESS!!!! What a bunch of f**kheads!!!   Reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures     I agree and this is what leaves me scratching my head over conservative ideology in general. When conservatives are asked to explain why they hold their views about limited government, a recurrent explanation is that they are afraid of government imposition because they're the ones with the guns. And true you see this played out with their position on gun control, government aid, federal regulations, federal reclamation of land and protection of environment, and so on. However, conservatives tend also to be hawkish, strengthening the military component of the federal government that they say they so fear (Trump of course fits right into this). I tend to view this supposed fear of federal government as very disingenuous. Is it deception, self-deception, or is there something I'm missing? This is an open question to anyone who thinks they can answer. I'll take a stab at it, my experiences give me some insight I suppose. Sort of enlisting some paranoid right wing tin-foil hat wearing wack job onto the forum to answer it. I suppose I'll try to answer that. I think you are attempting to tie two completely things together man.  The fear the right has of big government is very real.  Do I agree with it?  Of course not, what is there to fear...if Po-Po or the Feds comes beating down my door to deport Raff or to toss me into a neo-facist re-education camp for hating on the Emperor of the US himself online... then they get blown away even if I am a liberal. The point is.. they are not afraid of the military. Even in their ignorant self contained world they understand that the military has not place within in the US itself. It is illegal and the President who even mutters the thought of using the military within the US will be the one thing outside of terrorists to unite our fractured and divided country. Those agents of goverment they fear...that might take their rights, their guns, their land, are not military man. They are the police and the Feds. VERY VERY VERY different.  Those are the people the right has a problem with, be it potentially taking their guns or their land (the big to-do out west). It isn't the military Thus I have seen little fear of the military on the right.  As all might suspect, the military itself is very right leaning.  I felt very out of place being a self professing liberal in the military.  Just as we on the left tend to think every rightie is a gun totting Bible freak, most think those on the left are paper pushing pussies who think that god and relgion are mass delusions.  I'd like to think I showed those I met that is not the case, as much as they taught me that common views of the right by the left are not true (at least ALL of them ) I had to take some time to mull this over. You might be right. I had made the contrary interpretation that they were concerned about military power when I heard one whose name I can't remember unfortunately interviewed on the radio saying that they're afraid of government power because "they're the ones with the guns". I understood them referring to a power imbalance, and given all the guns throughout the country, I didn't think the reference was to the FBI but to the military. And the major rationale conservatives have for their enthusiasm over the second amendment is that people should have the ability in principle to rise up against the government if it were to turn tyrannical. If a rebellion were just a local armed stand off, then yeah the FBI or ATF would be expected. If a full out war of rebellion were ever to occur, I presume conservatives would quite rightly expect such a theoretical rebellion to be engaged by actual armed forces of the military, as of course happened with the Civil War. I guess that all depends on what individuals envision, and that may evolve over time, I suppose. The small armed standoffs are what are current and more plausible, but the full scale war scenario better serves the motivation for having the second amendment. Maybe, however, it stays in the realm of the theoretical, and what is more psychologically real for conservatives are the small scale standoffs, and then you're certainly right; it's the Feds that become the concern. I don't know, but I think I'm over-thinking this more than I ought to.

I don't think you are over-thinking it.  Hell I applaud the effort to try to figure out what makes them tick.  It is a scary road of hate, ignorance, and paranoia.  I took it myself since it is so completely contrary to how I was raised and the person I grew to be, and yet worked with and even was friends with those completely different in their thinking than I was and feel pretty safe to safe I"m the only member of this forum to have ever attended a KKK meeting so yeah... your pool of respondants here is fairly limited as it is not exactly a ideologically diverse forum

You do raise some interesting 2nd amendment points..  I may touch on those later.

micky wrote: HackettFan wrote: progaardvark wrote: The only items getting increases are military- and national security-related. The U.S. already spends more than any other country in the world on military, more than twice what China spends (who ranks second). My prediction is they'll pick another country to invade, run up another damned huge deficit, and then another Democratic president will be forced to deal with another GOD-DAMNED REPUBLICAN MESS!!!! What a bunch of f**kheads!!!   Reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures     I agree and this is what leaves me scratching my head over conservative ideology in general. When conservatives are asked to explain why they hold their views about limited government, a recurrent explanation is that they are afraid of government imposition because they're the ones with the guns. And true you see this played out with their position on gun control, government aid, federal regulations, federal reclamation of land and protection of environment, and so on. However, conservatives tend also to be hawkish, strengthening the military component of the federal government that they say they so fear (Trump of course fits right into this). I tend to view this supposed fear of federal government as very disingenuous. Is it deception, self-deception, or is there something I'm missing? This is an open question to anyone who thinks they can answer. I'll take a stab at it, my experiences give me some insight I suppose. Sort of enlisting some paranoid right wing tin-foil hat wearing wack job onto the forum to answer it. I suppose I'll try to answer that. I think you are attempting to tie two completely things together man.  The fear the right has of big government is very real.  Do I agree with it?  Of course not, what is there to fear...if Po-Po or the Feds comes beating down my door to deport Raff or to toss me into a neo-facist re-education camp for hating on the Emperor of the US himself online... then they get blown away even if I am a liberal. The point is.. they are not afraid of the military. Even in their ignorant self contained world they understand that the military has not place within in the US itself. It is illegal and the President who even mutters the thought of using the military within the US will be the one thing outside of terrorists to unite our fractured and divided country. Those agents of goverment they fear...that might take their rights, their guns, their land, are not military man. They are the police and the Feds. VERY VERY VERY different.  Those are the people the right has a problem with, be it potentially taking their guns or their land (the big to-do out west). It isn't the military Thus I have seen little fear of the military on the right.  As all might suspect, the military itself is very right leaning.  I felt very out of place being a self professing liberal in the military.  Just as we on the left tend to think every rightie is a gun totting Bible freak, most think those on the left are paper pushing pussies who think that god and relgion are mass delusions.  I'd like to think I showed those I met that is not the case, as much as they taught me that common views of the right by the left are not true (at least ALL of them )

I had to take some time to mull this over. You might be right. I had made the contrary interpretation that they were concerned about military power when I heard one whose name I can't remember unfortunately interviewed on the radio saying that they're afraid of government power because "they're the ones with the guns". I understood them referring to a power imbalance, and given all the guns throughout the country, I didn't think the reference was to the FBI but to the military. And the major rationale conservatives have for their enthusiasm over the second amendment is that people should have the ability in principle to rise up against the government if it were to turn tyrannical. If a rebellion were just a local armed stand off, then yeah the FBI or ATF would be expected. If a full out war of rebellion were ever to occur, I presume conservatives would quite rightly expect such a theoretical rebellion to be engaged by actual armed forces of the military, as of course happened with the Civil War. I guess that all depends on what individuals envision, and that may evolve over time, I suppose. The small armed standoffs are what are current and more plausible, but the full scale war scenario better serves the motivation for having the second amendment. Maybe, however, it stays in the realm of the theoretical, and what is more psychologically real for conservatives are the small scale standoffs, and then you're certainly right; it's the Feds that become the concern. I don't know, but I think I'm over-thinking this more than I ought to.





Edited by HackettFan - March 19 2017 at 00:21

That's a very interesting article, I especially enjoyed the sideline about Trump and handshakes.

I've been watching several repeats of the Merkel-Trump press conference, and my impression concerning their body language during the handshake debacle is:

Merkel: Ok, you old fool, fornicate you, have it your own way then.
Trump: If I were alone with the bitch, I'd strangle her right here and now.

Just watch it, and you'll see what I mean.


Edited by npjnpj - March 18 2017 at 23:49

well that is what the intellectual wing of the Republican party feared and why they couldn't support him and why you find his strongest centers of support at the f**king local Wal-Mart haha.

He truly has become a national embarrassment.. along with his supporters.. 'Washington can't take a joke'

really... back to the 5 year well of bad excuses for getting caught for deliberating lying and misleading

 and boo on the English P.M.  good thing I wasn't in that position.  I'd have demanded a personal apology from Trump..  which would have killed him to give as it butts right up against his Narcissistic Personality Disorder. The man can NOT admit when he is wrong.. a VERY dangerous habit as President.

it is one thing when the bullsh*t, lies, and deliberate mistruths are thrown to his idiot supporters.. what many feared is exactly what happened..  is not being up to the task in regards to world affairs. As we said, he failed the qualification test of being city dog catcher.. and we elected him President.

Oh well...  not surprising.. but I had hoped he would prove the fears we had as to his ability to be President to switch from populist purveyor of bullsh*t to his idiot unthinking supporters to a Presidential leader of America.. not just his supporters..just wrong  as we were that the American public wasn't stupid or ignorant enough enough to elect him.  Well no dice there


Edited by micky - March 18 2017 at 09:33

HackettFan wrote: progaardvark wrote: The only items getting increases are military- and national security-related. The U.S. already spends more than any other country in the world on military, more than twice what China spends (who ranks second). My prediction is they'll pick another country to invade, run up another damned huge deficit, and then another Democratic president will be forced to deal with another GOD-DAMNED REPUBLICAN MESS!!!! What a bunch of f**kheads!!!   Reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures     I agree and this is what leaves me scratching my head over conservative ideology in general. When conservatives are asked to explain why they hold their views about limited government, a recurrent explanation is that they are afraid of government imposition because they're the ones with the guns. And true you see this played out with their position on gun control, government aid, federal regulations, federal reclamation of land and protection of environment, and so on. However, conservatives tend also to be hawkish, strengthening the military component of the federal government that they say they so fear (Trump of course fits right into this). I tend to view this supposed fear of federal government as very disingenuous. Is it deception, self-deception, or is there something I'm missing? This is an open question to anyone who thinks they can answer.

I'll take a stab at it, my experiences give me some insight I suppose. Sort of enlisting some paranoid right wing tin-foil hat wearing wack job onto the forum to answer it. I suppose I'll try to answer that.

I think you are attempting to tie two completely things together man.  The fear the right has of big government is very real.  Do I agree with it?  Of course not, what is there to fear...if Po-Po or the Feds comes beating down my door to deport Raff or to toss me into a neo-facist re-education camp for hating on the Emperor of the US himself online... then they get blown away even if I am a liberal.

The point is.. they are not afraid of the military. Even in their ignorant self contained world they understand that the military has not place within in the US itself. It is illegal and the President who even mutters the thought of using the military within the US will be the one thing outside of terrorists to unite our fractured and divided country.

Those agents of goverment they fear...that might take their rights, their guns, their land, are not military man. They are the police and the Feds. VERY VERY VERY different.  Those are the people the right has a problem with, be it potentially taking their guns or their land (the big to-do out west). It isn't the military

Thus I have seen little fear of the military on the right.  As all might suspect, the military itself is very right leaning.  I felt very out of place being a self professing liberal in the military.  Just as we on the left tend to think every rightie is a gun totting Bible freak, most think those on the left are paper pushing pussies who think that god and relgion are mass delusions.  I'd like to think I showed those I met that is not the case, as much as they taught me that common views of the right by the left are not true (at least ALL of them )