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SteveG 
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20604 |
 Posted: March 08 2017 at 15:24 |
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Just wait a few days and he'll start up the Birther Movement again.
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This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
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micky
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46833 |
Posted: March 08 2017 at 15:53 |
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woo hoo!!!! you rule America.... |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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omphaloskepsis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2011 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 6341 |
Posted: March 08 2017 at 17:13 |
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I couldn't agree more. I don't want Obama Care Lite! We need choices across state lines. We need Congress and/or Trump to force Phamasuitical companies to lower artificially high prices. Supposedly this is a first draft. It better be. And it better get better. Senator Rand Paul suggestions are more palatable. One of Paul's unique ideas incorporates associations. For example- If you are member of a Credit Union your entire credit union can negotiate a health care plan, thus lowering costs for the individual. Much better Health Saving Accounts which allow you to claim Exercise equipment and dietary supplements. Edited by omphaloskepsis - March 08 2017 at 18:27 |
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46833 |
Posted: March 08 2017 at 17:26 |
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 forget about it.... all those fools are good for are throwing bombs and being against what others try to do.. now in power.. oh yeah.. no sh*t.. it is a big problem .. and a very complex issue. They'll try.. probably come up with something that will fail. As anything economically they have done in the last 40 years other than make the rich richer and sh*t upon the very working class people that INCREDULOUSLY still think they clowns actually care about them. I guess.. we'll add heathcare to the list of messes we'll have to clean up after Trump is gone. and hopefully the fools in control of congress too gone with him. The ACA wasn't perfect and needed to be fixed... you don't fix the problem that was health care in the first move... you indentify the problems and address them...but as usual ... common sense has no place in GOP politics. They roped themselves in the red meat they fed their meathead supporters about REPEAL REPEAL REPEAL.. yet they have NO plan.. never did.. as to either improve the first step that the ACA was.. much less come up with a better system. In fact... I fear what they do will be much worse. why... they are playing politics and ideology with this.. not reason.. not compassion.. and not economics.. always did.. and it is too late to back away from it now. Edited by micky - March 08 2017 at 17:28 |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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omphaloskepsis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2011 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 6341 |
Posted: March 08 2017 at 18:06 |
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Rand Paul introduced Senate Bill 222 today I copied and pasted. For a cleaner copy then my awkward copy and paste, without crossed out zeros. https://www.paul.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/ObamacareReplacementActSections.pdf The Obamacare Replacement Act (S. 222) Senator Rand Paul, MD Repealing Obamacare Effective as of the date of enactment of this bill, the following provisions of Obamacare are repealed: o Individual and employer mandates, community rating restrictions, rate review, essential health benefits requirement, medical loss ratio, and other insurance mandates.
Protecting Individuals with Pre-Existing Conditions Ø Provides a two-year open-enrollment period under which individuals with pre-existing conditions can obtain coverage. Ø Restores HIPAA pre-existing conditions protections. Prior to Obamacare, HIPAA guaranteed those within the group market could obtain continuous health coverage regardless of preexisting conditions. Equalize the Tax Treatment of Health Insurance Ø Individuals who receive health insurance through an employer are able to exclude the premium amount from their taxable income. However, this subsidy is unavailable for those that do not receive their insurance through an employer but instead shop for insurance on the individual market. Ø Equalizes the tax treatment of the purchase of health insurance for individuals and employers. By providing a universal deduction on both income and payroll taxes regardless of how an individual obtains their health insurance, Americans will be empowered to purchase insurance independent of employment. Furthermore, this provision does not interfere with employerprovided coverage for Americans who prefer those plans. Expansion of Health Savings Accounts Ø Tax Credit for HSA Contributions o Provides individuals the option of a tax credit of up to $5,000 per taxpayer for contributions to an HSA. If an individual chooses not to accept the tax credit or contributes in excess of $5,000, those contributions are still tax-preferred. Ø Maximum Contribution Limit to HSA o Removes the maximum allowable annual contribution, so that individuals may make unlimited contributions to an HSA. Ø Eliminates the requirement that a participant in an HSA be enrolled in a high deductible health care plan o Currently, in order to be eligible to establish and use an HSA, an individual must be enrolled in a high-deductible health plan. This section removes the HSA plan type requirement to allow individuals with all types of insurance to establish and use an HSA. o This would also enable individuals who are eligible for Medicare, VA benefits, TRICARE, IHS, and members of health care sharing ministries to be eligible to establish an HSA. Ø Allowance of Distributions for Prescription and OTC Drugs o Allows prescription and OTC drug costs to be treated as allowable expenses of HSAs. Ø Purchase of Health Insurance from HSA Account o Currently, HSA funds may not be used to purchase insurance or cover the cost of premiums. Allowing the use of HSA funds for insurance premiums will help make health coverage more affordable for American families. Ø Medical Expenses Incurred Prior to Account Establishment o Allows qualified expenses incurred prior to HSA establishment to be reimbursed from an HSA as long as the account is established prior to tax filing. Ø Administrative Error Correction Before Due Date of Return o Amends current law by allowing for administrative or clerical error corrections on filings. Ø Allowing HSA Rollover to Child or Parent of Account Holder o Allows an account holder’s HSA to rollover to a child, parent, or grandparent, in addition to a spouse. Ø Equivalent Bankruptcy Protections for HSAs as Retirement Funds o Most tax-exempt retirement accounts are also fully exempt from bankruptcy by federal law. While some states have passed laws that exempt HSA funds from being seized in bankruptcy, there is no federal protection for HSA funds in bankruptcy. Ø Certain Exercise Equipment and Physical Fitness Programs to be Treated as Medical Care o Expands allowable HSA expenses to include equipment for physical exercise or health coaching, including weight loss programs. Ø Nutritional and Dietary Supplements to be Treated as Medical Care o Amends the definition of “medical care” to include dietary and nutritional supplements for the purposes of HSA expenditures. Ø Certain Providers Fees to be Treated as Medical Care o Allows HSA funds to be used for periodic fees paid to medical practitioners for access to medical care. Ø Capitated Primary Care Payments o HSAs can be used for pre-paid physician fees, which includes payments associated with “concierge” or “direct practice” medicine. Ø Provisions Relating to Medicare o Allows Medicare enrollees to contribute their own money to the Medicare Medical Savings Accounts (MSAs). Charity Care and Bad Debt Deduction for Physicians Ø Amends the Internal Revenue Code to allow a physician a tax deduction equal to the amount such physician would otherwise charge for charity medical care or uncompensated care due to bad debt. This deduction is limited to 10% of a physician’s gross income for the taxable year. Pool Reform for the Individual Market Ø Establishes Independent Health Pools (IHPs) in order to allow individuals to pool together for the purposes of purchasing insurance. Ø Amends the Public Health Service Act (PHSA) to allow individuals to pool together to provide for health benefits coverage through Individual Health Pools (IHPs). These can include nonprofit organizations (including churches, alumni associations, trade associations, other civic groups, or entities formed strictly for establishing an IHP) so long as the organization does not condition membership on any health status-related factor. Ø Requires that the IHP will provide insurance through contracts with health insurance issuers in fully insured plans and not assume insurance risk with respect to such coverage. Allows the IHP to provide administrative services to members, including accounting, billings, and enrollment information. Interstate Market for Health Insurance Cooperative Governing of Individual Health Insurance Coverage Ø Increases access to individual health coverage by allowing insurers licensed to sell policies in one state to offer them to residents of any other state. Ø Exempts issuers from secondary state laws that would prohibit or regulate their operation in the secondary state. However, states may impose requirements such as consumer protections and applicable taxes, among others. Ø Prohibits an issuer from offering, selling, or issuing individual health insurance coverage in a secondary state: o If the state insurance commissioner does not use a risk-based capital formula for the determination of capital and surplus requirements for all issuers. o Unless both the secondary and primary states have legislation or regulations in place establishing an independent review process for individuals who have individual health insurance coverage; or o The issuer provides an acceptable mechanism under which the review is conducted by an independent medical reviewer or panel. Ø Gives sole jurisdiction to the primary state to enforce the primary state’s covered laws in the primary state and any secondary state. Ø Allows the secondary state to notify the primary state if the coverage offered in the secondary state fails to comply with the covered laws in the primary state. Association Health Plans Ø Association Health Plans (AHPs) allow small businesses to pool together across state lines through their membership in a trade or professional association to purchase health coverage for their employees and their families. AHPs increase the bargaining power, leverage discounts, and provide administrative efficiencies to small businesses while freeing them from state benefit mandates. Ø While AHPs currently exist, strict Department of Labor standards exist regarding the types of organizations that may qualify as a single large-group health plan under ERISA. The standard stipulates that the association must be a group of employers bound together by a commonality of interest (aside from providing a health plan) with vested control of the association to such an extent that they effectively operate as one employer. This is considered a difficult standard for most associations to meet. Ø Amends ERISA to define AHPs and allow for their treatment as if they were large group single employer health plans. This definition would allow a dues-collecting organization maintained in good faith for a purpose other than providing health insurance to benefit from the insurance regulation exclusions currently afforded to large-group health plans under ERISA. Ø Requires solvency standards to protect patients’ rights and ensure benefits are paid. o Requires AHPs to have an indemnified back-up plan in order to prevent unpaid claims in the event of plan termination. o AHPs must undergo independent actuarial certification for financial viability on a regular basis. o Requires AHPs to maintain surplus reserves of at least $500,000 in addition to normal claims reserves, stop loss insurance, or indemnification insurance. Anti-Trust Reform for Healthcare Ø Provides an exemption from Federal antitrust laws for health care professionals engaged in negotiations with a health plan regarding the terms of a contract under which the professionals provide health care items or services. Ø This section applies only to health care professionals excluded from the National Labor Relations Act. It would also not apply to contracts or care provided under Medicare, Medicaid, SCHIP, the FEHBP, or the IHS as well as medical and dental care provided to members of the uniformed services and veterans. Increasing State Flexibility to Conduct Medicaid Waivers Ø Provides new flexibilities to states in their Medicaid plan design, through existing waiver authority in current law. Ø For many years, including under Obamacare, States have had the option to request a waiver from HHS to allow states to test new coverage rules under Medicaid and other programs. This provision would allow states to make changes to their Medicaid plans without interference from Washington. Self-Insurance Protections Ø Amends the definition of “health insurance coverage” under the Public Health Service Act (PHSA), and parallel sections of ERISA and the Tax Code, to clarify that stop-loss insurance is not health insurance. Ø This provision is designed to prevent the federal government from using rule-making to restrict the availability of stop-loss insurance used by self-insured plans. Edited by omphaloskepsis - March 08 2017 at 18:15 |
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HackettFan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2012 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 7951 |
Posted: March 08 2017 at 22:36 |
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A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now)
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Status: Offline Points: 34550 |
Posted: March 08 2017 at 22:43 |
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They're to the right of the mainstream. They also hate compromise and reject "some progress is better than nothing" solutions. They want a strict laissez-faire plan. Funny since tax rebates have been the corner stone for GOP policy for years, now that is not enough It's quite dumb though, if they really DO put up a fight...well, they will get nowhere, (I cant see how an even more conservative bill will be passed) and thus: Obamacare will remain as is. If only they could accept moderation. Then again, the normal GOP can't do that. They created this problem back in 09. They could've accepted ACA. It's a moderate bill very much like ideas they supported in the past (Romney was praised for a near similar bill). They could've argued, changed some things etc etc but accepted it in the end and say "Look! We saved the US from the public option and gov takeover of health. We got coverage to everyone while preserving a private system". But no they chose war, total obstruction. Thus they put themselves in this situation. In all fairness, political views aside the plan really IS bad. It will do nothing of what they claim, and supposedly doctors, hospitals and some insurers are now lining up to oppose the plan. It's a truly terrible plan. I hope it fails to even pass the House (with the Freedom Caucus, its possible) and the whole thing becomes a debacle. As a Democrat its the only joy I can get right now
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Status: Offline Points: 34550 |
Posted: March 08 2017 at 22:53 |
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Well first of all, if you expect a Republican led Congress and President Trump to force the big health companies to lower prices...you are kidding yourself. Also while you're correct they're artificially high, the right will never dare tell a private business, (powerful ones too) to do something like that. "Free markets" and what not. They have generally opposed these ideas of course because they are corporate sell outs, not really free marketers. And many of the players involved don't want competition either. That said I do agree, we need more competition, across state lines and allowing foreign drug companies to sell here. We have a very monopolistic health market. However, more competition while good, will only go so far. Something must be done about drug companies that can behave like straight up robbers. In addition to all that, we need a public option. I believe its the only true way to contain costs.
Edited by JJLehto - March 08 2017 at 22:55 |
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Status: Offline Points: 34550 |
Posted: March 08 2017 at 22:59 |
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Because fun lil fact, when I did my taxes earlier I noticed I paid 16% of my income in 2016 to my insurance plan (more than all my taxes combined btw). So if you think about it...even a 10% tax hike, if it could eliminate most of the private costs, would still break even if not be a saving to me.
Especially since Medicare is FAR less wasteful than most private companies. Their savings on overhead is ridiculous. It'd be a fairer, cheaper, more straightforward way to do healthcare. Agreed Micky, I sincerely don't know how people (especially working and poorer people!) still believe the Republicans are for them. I mean, if you are swayed/believe more in other issues OK, but people truly believe the Reps are better for them then the Dems. It's insanity. And not that they'd care (ya know facts and stuff) but here's the analysis of how people would fare under the GOP plan vs Obamacare. Shocker: Poorer people and the elderly will be worse off. At the 75k limit though everyone is better off. I know, stop the presses http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/03/08/upshot/who-wins-and-who-loses-under-republicans-health-care-plan.html?_r=1Indeed, those hardest hit would be lower earning, older people in high cost areas. Ya know, the very people who need help most? While younger more well off people in cheaper areas will be quite fine. Typical GOP planning!
Edited by JJLehto - March 08 2017 at 23:03 |
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Status: Offline Points: 34550 |
Posted: March 08 2017 at 23:12 |
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Here's a fun one. We've oft discussed the increasing polarization of America, and I've said I feel it's more driven by the right.
Well, 538 to the rescue! They say: Yes, purple America really is vanishing. Since 92 we've been progressively growing polarized. Both sides are doubling down while fewer areas are within a single digit gap now. However, I noticed if you follow the maps, ALOT more red is popping up. In fact you see mostly red creeping in and creeping in, and only bits of blue. So while both sides and digging their feet in, and the middle IS vanishing...seems to me the middle is vanishing largely as more people tilt red. It really is conservatism driving much of it. Or so that's what I take from it. Which syncs up with reality, since the 90s economic conservatism has been growing, as has been the resurgence of moral warfare and nativism. So, we're both correct.
Edited by JJLehto - March 08 2017 at 23:12 |
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npjnpj
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 05 2007 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 2720 |
Posted: March 09 2017 at 03:13 |
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This is getting annoying: everone and everything nowadays is being hacked and leaked, so why the bloody hell don't Trump's tax returns get leaked? I don't understand it, it should be a doddle.
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Kepler62
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 09 2017 Location: Fort Erie Status: Offline Points: 501 |
Posted: March 09 2017 at 04:02 |
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I don't get it. You giuy write more about politics here than you do about progressive rock.
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npjnpj
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 05 2007 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 2720 |
Posted: March 09 2017 at 05:49 |
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So?
Don't like it? Easy-peasy: have me banned. Edited by npjnpj - March 09 2017 at 05:52 |
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progaardvark
Collaborator
Crossover/Symphonic/RPI Teams Joined: June 14 2007 Location: Sea of Peas Status: Offline Points: 50966 |
Posted: March 09 2017 at 05:56 |
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I'm not going to defend the CIA, but I think the text you posted above from Wikileaks needs more analysis. Instead of reading the Wikileaks press release, read the supporting documents (there are seven pages of them). This was an intelligence gathering operation. Most of the pages have questions that intelligence personnel should attempt at answering. There is nothing in the seven documents that implies that anyone interfered in the 2012 French election. This was an intelligence gathering operation to gauge how the election might impact U.S.-France relations. All countries do this sort of intelligence. From page 2: "Analysts in CIA's Office of Russian and European Analysis (OREA) closely watched the Oct 9th and Oct 16th Socialist primaries and will be closely monitoring the April 22nd and May 6th 2012 Presidential elections. Of particular interest is President Sarkozy, the Socialist Party (PS), and other potential candidate's plans and intentions for these elections. Analysts assess that the Union for a Popular Movement (UMP), the current ruling party, is not assured of winning the presidential election and, as a result, analysts are interested in the electoral strategy of the non-ruling parties listed below. Additional information on these topics will help analysts assess, and prepare key US policymakers for, the post-election French political landscape and the potential impact on US-France relations." https://wikileaks.org/cia-france-elections-2012/document/2012-CIA-FRANCE-ELECTION/page-2/#pagination Wikileaks conclusions are clearly flawed in this case and seem more like sensationalism. I would question their reliability at this point.
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i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions |
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omphaloskepsis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2011 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 6341 |
Posted: March 09 2017 at 06:07 |
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JJLetho I'm very cynical about politicians. I don't think drug companies will be forced to lower their prices. If drug companies lowered prices as much as they should, I'd think I was dreaming and minutes from a very rude awaking. Regardless, I'm for lower health care premiums and fair drug prices. What will I do? At the very least I will contact my congressman and Senator and let their staff know. Will they listen to me? No way. But, if a massive wave of constituents rise up and let their congressmen know he/she won't be elected again. MAYBE some congressmen will be swayed. You noticed I made that a big maybe. Senator Rand Paul talked about his bill in an interview. Within hours Senator Rand Paul's interview was banned on YouTube and Facebook. A senator for gods sake! Rand Paul also complained the Republicans were attempting to ramrod Obamacare Lite through behind closed doors. Furthermore, Rand insisted that congress absolutely should not debate America's healthcare future behind closed doors, but in plain few of the public. My point? If the forces that be wish to sneak their plan past America and ban Rand Paul's interview then I'm pretty sure the forces that be wish Rand Paul's healthcare bill die, a quick silent death. I feel empathy for your 16% of income health insurance bill. That is horrendous. You have a right to be pissed. On the polarization of America, you couldn't be more right on. I've never felt America so polarized and pissed. Like two rival fire ant colonies. I've seen videos of people screaming. Just screaming in public. Loud and long. HackettFan, as to the authenticity of WikiLeaks? As I type the CIA has admitted that the info is real and they need to find who leaked the info to WikiLeaks. It's all over the major media outlets. The CIA is playing down their illegal activities. Instead the CIA is saying the perpetrator must be identified and brought to justice. Major media TV outlets are emphasizing the perpetrator of the WikiLeaks leak must be identified too. I agree it is illegal to leak CIA info, yet their are degrees of illegality. In my opinion, the CIA's spying on American citizens is much worse than leaking the CIA documents. It's like we live in upside down world. It's as if a anonymous citizen, after hacking a serial killer's computer, sent a letter to the police detailing evidence of who, how, when, and where a Jack the Ripper copycat serial killer committed his murders. Then the media reports the serial killer admitted the murders, has not been arrested, and now there is a manhunt for the anonymous citizen who broke the law by hacking the serial killer's computer. Edited by omphaloskepsis - March 09 2017 at 06:46 |
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Status: Offline Points: 34550 |
Posted: March 09 2017 at 06:29 |
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I've been here since 2005 (had a different username even!) and frankly, you can only talk music sooooo long, especially when the topics tend to repeat over and over. Ya know, burn out. But politics is always changing. It's the most progressive aspect of life!
Thing is no one really cares. Obviously no one on the right, and from the left...frankly, I'm getting bored of it. I mean keep up the attack at least as a reminder to people, but with soooo much going on and at stake, I'm tiring of it being made such a big deal. That's not a defense, I hate that (most likely) Trump has paid 0 taxes for years and years. It's even worse than Romney's 14% (which is basically what I paid as a poor grad student working a $10/hr job) Just I think it's being used mostly as a political attack than anyone being that upset over it
Edited by JJLehto - March 09 2017 at 06:30 |
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Status: Offline Points: 34550 |
Posted: March 09 2017 at 06:48 |
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I kind figured, I also figured by your tone (and many mentionings of Rand) you're a libertarian or libertarian-conservative. Yeah, you are very aware of the situation, in general the people have been shut out of the process. That transcends all politics imho. Thing is the right generally is supportive of $ in politics, either because they're sellouts or truly believe its freedom of speech, but that has only made the situation worse. Oh and of course many leftist politicians are swayed by big donor money, imo, often causing them to act counter to what they say... As for health, who knows. I do think a public option is the best option out there. The most direct as well. Instead of the gov forcing companies to pay whatever price and etc just have that, plus a combo of more competitive markets. I actually wasn't very pissed, just was making the point 1: at a low income level its not taxes that are my biggest burden (and with more income you may have more/costlier insurance anyway) but 2: That basically Sanders was right, we look at taxes but not private costs. More of the former to eliminate much of the latter would be beneficial for many many people. And yeah secrecy is a terrible thing. Same with these trade deals. No one knows what goes on with them or even what they are. Progressives and some libertarians would raise a fuss, but it wasn't until 2015 the masses actually got informed/cared enough to make it a political issue. And irony: if it was less secretive, if years ago Obama and co came out and said this is what we're trying to do, MAYBE people would've been more on board. Maybe not, but at least it wouldn't have been in secret and last minute the Dems are scrambling to try and justify it to a populace that already got their information from someone and made up their mind. Hey I feel ya, most people are cynical of politicians. I am often. I was/am of Clinton and many mainstream Democrats. And how can you not be? Look at whats going on. Jeff Sessions made me very angry when he justified his anti immigration with "protecting the American worker" and "keeping wages up and jobs here" "TPP is bad" but he's all for gutting labor and trade deals that happened under Bush
Hypocrisy and lazy politics everywhere |
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omphaloskepsis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2011 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 6341 |
Posted: March 09 2017 at 07:12 |
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Progaardvark said- "I'm not going to defend the CIA, but I think the text you posted above from Wikileaks needs more analysis. Instead of reading the Wikileaks press release, read the supporting documents (there are seven pages of them). This was an intelligence gathering operation. Most of the pages have questions that intelligence personnel should attempt at answering. There is nothing in the seven documents that implies that anyone interfered in the 2012 French election. This was an intelligence gathering operation to gauge how the election might impact U.S.-France relations. All countries do this sort of intelligence" Last night I read the documents you speak of, and for the most part I agree with you. All countries do this sort of intelligence. Yet, many Americans believe the CIA spies exclusively on America's enemies. Not our allies or citizens. My beefs? Was the CIA directed by the President or a CIA agenda? If the CIA is acting solely on their own agenda then the CIA is a rogue agency. We, the American people, must have faith that the CIA is staffed with honest, patriotic men and women. We have to hope the CIA are spying on Americans, their congressmen, and the media for all the right reasons. What are the right reasons? Another thing. What should the CIA do with the criminal activity they root out? For example- What should the CIA do if they found out that a number of Congressmen and Media personality were active pedophiles? I know what I think they do with the info. I think the CIA would blackmail Congressmen into voting for the CIA agenda. I think the CIA would blackmail the media into spinning WikiLeaks CIA documents into a positive light for the CIA. Historically, this is exactly how the CIA works. But that was in the past. There's a strange phenomena, where people tend to believe- "That couldn't happen now. Not during my lifetime." Bottom Line- I'm cynical of CIA motives. I hope it's just a case of paranoia on my part. Edited by omphaloskepsis - March 09 2017 at 08:04 |
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omphaloskepsis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2011 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 6341 |
Posted: March 09 2017 at 08:22 |
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JJLehto- That Bernie Sanders vs Trump analysis is most excellent. I too, think America's youth were extremely bummed once Sanders was eliminated from the Presidential race. Sanders was my favorite Democrat horse vying for the presidency. By the way, your analysis echoed several of my wife's viewpoints. She was pulling for Bernie Sanders candidacy. After Sanders was eliminated she crossed political lines and voted Trump. (I didn't vote) My wife despises Hillary. Hillary sets my wife's teeth on edge. This evening, I'll show my better half your article. I can picture her now, winding down with a cup of jo and your insightful Sanders analysis. You are a well informed American JJLehto. If the majority of America was as well informed as you we wouldn't be in the current national snafu. I respect people who disagree with my political views, as long as they are well informed. Likewise, I don't respect the viewpoints of people who agree with me, if they have no earthly, logical idea why they agree. I have more faith in an a nation chuck-full of political, autodidactical citizenry then politicians left to their own devices. Unfortunately, most Americans parrot the last opinion they heard or read. I respect and appreciate Progaarvark for reading through several WikiLeaks CIA documents.
Edited by omphaloskepsis - March 09 2017 at 08:32 |
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HackettFan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2012 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 7951 |
Posted: March 09 2017 at 09:27 |
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With respect to the current news item, where's the part about the CIA spying on US citizens? I agree with you that that's exceptionally undesirable and illegal, but I don't see it in anything I've read. The reports that came out (and even your post) all say nothing more than they can hack iPhones anywhere in the world (or could according to Apple). Shocked I am not. But that information does not say and in no way implies that they have spied on US citizens. The CIA does deserve close scrutiny. However, I re-iterate a comment I made before that I am far happier with the CIA having this capability than I am with the FBI. |
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A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now)
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The American Politics Thread
Topic Options
SteveG wrote: