Forum Home Forum Home > Topics not related to music > General discussions
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - The American Politics Thread
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedThe American Politics Thread

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 1314151617 434>
Author
Message
npjnpj View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: December 05 2007
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 2720
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2017 at 02:04
Is there such a thing as well-intended treason out of necessity for the good of the country? After all, Donald Trump made a pig's breakfast out of his first negotiation with Australia. Even Steve Bannon had been heard to mutter: "Here, steady on!"

All in all it seems that anyone including Bozo The Clown could have done that better.

Well, what do you expect when Donald and Mickey are in running the country?


Edited by npjnpj - March 04 2017 at 03:11
Back to Top
npjnpj View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: December 05 2007
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 2720
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2017 at 08:17
Ah, thank goodness, Donald Trump is back and as insane as ever.

His tweets concerning Obama listening in on his phone calls hits the spot. Now we know who's been bugging him all this time.

It's good to know it's really him, because if his tweets are written directly and not dictated, they contain at least one spelling mistake. Quite an achievement in itself, considering the average length of a tweet (in this case: spelling 'tap' with double-p).

Seriously, after his teleprompter speech before the senate it's like welcoming an old friend back after a short but serious ailment. He had me worried for a few days.


Edited by npjnpj - March 04 2017 at 08:30
Back to Top
SteveG View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20604
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2017 at 08:58
Originally posted by npjnpj npjnpj wrote:

Ah, thank goodness, Donald Trump is back and as insane as ever.

His tweets concerning Obama listening in on his phone calls hits the spot. Now we know who's been bugging him all this time.

It's good to know it's really him, because if his tweets are written directly and not dictated, they contain at least one spelling mistake. Quite an achievement in itself, considering the average length of a tweet (in this case: spelling 'tap' with double-p).

Seriously, after his teleprompter speech before the senate it's like welcoming an old friend back after a short but serious ailment. He had me worried for a few days.
Well, Trump has to keep his insane constitutes happy too! LOL Yeah, really no surprise. I give him credit for holding out for a few days before regressing.
This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
Back to Top
omphaloskepsis View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 19 2011
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 6341
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2017 at 10:56
And now for something completely different...             





Edited by omphaloskepsis - March 04 2017 at 10:56
Back to Top
npjnpj View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: December 05 2007
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 2720
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2017 at 11:22
That's interesting, but I'm not sure what that's supposed to demonstrate or prove, apart from the fact that caller identification seems to be a bit wonky.

I hate to admit it, but I'm quite impressed how McCain handeled the conversation. He was mainly non-commital and diplomatic.

And bear in mind that I have an intense dislike for the man since that stage incident where he sang bomb-bomb-boomb, bomb-bomb Iran to the tune of the Beach Boys' Barbara Ann.

Admittedly, it's not on the same level as James Mattis declaring at a press conference that it's fun to shoot people, but still: birds of a feather.


Edited by npjnpj - March 04 2017 at 12:00
Back to Top
The Dark Elf View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 13054
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2017 at 13:58
The president is a loon.


As the Wizard of Odd is attempting to say, "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain. But I don't mean the Iron Curtain, which is fake news."

P.S. The President of the United States cannot spell "t-a-p".


Edited by The Dark Elf - March 04 2017 at 14:02
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
Back to Top
npjnpj View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: December 05 2007
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 2720
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2017 at 14:20
I've heard that when nobody checks it, he also tends to spell his name 'Trumpp'. Fake news or alternative fact?
Back to Top
The Dark Elf View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 13054
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2017 at 14:27
Originally posted by npjnpj npjnpj wrote:

I've heard that when nobody checks it, he also tends to spell his name 'Trumpp'. Fake news or alternative fact?

I wonder when it will dawn on Trump that it was perhaps the Russians who tapped his line. After all, they hacked everything else.
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
Back to Top
JJLehto View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2017 at 16:42
Trump's latest plan (and this is one I have no doubt he sincerely believes in and the GOP will gladly go with)
14% cut to IRS funding. 


As Robert Reich pointed out, this will actually make the gov deficit worse because each dollar spent by the IRS generates $4 in unpaid taxes.
Also since most audits are aimed at high income earners, who also get out of more taxes, this will be yet another boon for the wealthy. Courtesy of Mr working class populist Trump Smile


Also the Keystone Pipeline is apparently not gunna use any US steel. 
loloops that silly Trump and his promises! 
Back to Top
npjnpj View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: December 05 2007
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 2720
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2017 at 01:03
It does make you wonder how long this can go on for, until he's stretched the gullibility of his supporters just that little bit too far. Then, on the other hand, that could be years.

I'm quite astonished how much his madcap tweets are still being paid major attention to by the media. If you ask me, they should all just be collected into a separate folder marked 'Christmas Bloopers'. That would be the best show ever.

By the way, I've just learnt that we can rest peacefully again. The nuclear codes have been secretly replaced with a copy of the chickaDEE crossword puzzle. Safe as houses.
Back to Top
Atavachron View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Online
Points: 65249
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2017 at 01:07
The tweeting has to stop.   It will be his downfall.

"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
Back to Top
Atavachron View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Online
Points: 65249
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2017 at 01:10
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

wonder when it will dawn on Trump that it was perhaps the Russians who tapped his line. After all, they hacked everything else.

I have to wonder if very many care about the Russia thing.   Many don't know what the story is, and if they did would (correctly) ask "so the hell what?"




Edited by Atavachron - March 05 2017 at 01:10
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
Back to Top
npjnpj View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: December 05 2007
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 2720
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2017 at 02:58
All the same though, while Trump is strutting around like 10 pounds of sh*t in a 5 pound bag, having another one of his attacks, I can't help wondering what Steve Bannon is up to while everyone is distracted.

It's like trying to keep tabs on a goddamn escaping flea circus.


Edited by npjnpj - March 05 2017 at 03:02
Back to Top
HackettFan View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: June 20 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Status: Offline
Points: 7951
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2017 at 22:23
I told people Trump's a narcissist, and many Trump voters just kind of shrug. But it should be clear, now if it wasn't clear before, that it's not simply a narcissistic personality he has, it's a narcissistic disorder. He is so threatened by any challenges made against him that he just can't keep himself from doing tit for tat, even if he has to manufacture his counter response out of thin air. He just expects that his own importance will serve as all the evidence needed.

Unfortunately out and out falsehoods have worked with his base up to this point. We'll see what happens with this latest unsubstantiated claim. What does it say about the mentality of his voters that they so readily enable someone with a narcissistic personality disorder?





Edited by HackettFan - March 05 2017 at 22:25
A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now)
Back to Top
npjnpj View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: December 05 2007
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 2720
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2017 at 02:31

A few thoughts on this wire-tapping claim:

1) It would be pretty ridiculous to assume that Trump's lines weren't tapped; of course they were. Just like everyone else's, all over the world, wherever possible. Wasn't there an NSA scandal about just this sort of thing just a very short while ago? Or has that been forgotten yet? The only daft thing is of Trump suggesting he's been singled out specifically by Obama. Otherwise, in this case he just might be proved right (this time). But he's just one of millions. If they have no problem tapping Angela Merkel and other European heads of state, why should tapping Trump present a moral dilemma?

2) Why has specifically the FBI got its knickers in a twist about this? His tweets didn't mention the FBI at all. So why, of all the security agencies possibly involved, should they react as if they'd been stung? Very suspicious, I find, and a sign that there does seem to be something more going on here that meets the eye, at least concerning the FBI.

3) The security services must be going up the wall at the moment. Just when the NSA scandal has almost been forgotten, Trump has to stir the pot again.

4) The FBI is demanding a retraction. Don't they know that Trump never retracts anything? Such a demand will most likely be countered with an attempt to discredit them as the harbingers of fake news, unreliable, bad, and possible even an enemy of the people.

5) This level of accusation is ideal. It can be spun out endlessly by the Trump administration and produced whenever a situation demands it (and there will be plenty!). Ultimately it will degenerate into an endless spiral of “yes-you-dids” and “no-I-didn’ts”, resulting in a very appropriate kindergarten level of debate.

This is gonna be fun. I just hope that in this new sh*t storm nobody forgets about Jeff Sessions, the Russian connections, and Steve Bannon. Oh wait! Could this be a distraction? If so, you've just got to admire the light-footed delicacy of the operation.



Edited by npjnpj - March 06 2017 at 02:59
Back to Top
Kepler62 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 09 2017
Location: Fort Erie
Status: Offline
Points: 501
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2017 at 04:36
I wonder what the aliens think about all this nonsense. Maybe they will just say that there is just no more hope and annihilate us. Canada is just as much of a joke. Canadians think that they're a bunch of goody two shoes. but we're just as messed up as the States. If Trump wanted to take us out he could do it with just one aircraft carrier which possesses about double the firepower of our entire military. So our little kid Prime Minister is laying low. 
Back to Top
omphaloskepsis View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 19 2011
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 6341
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2017 at 06:14
I'm cool with this thread moving to JFF. 

Will someone explain this one to me.   How does the FBI know General Flynn had a phone conversations with the Russians if they didn't wiretap?   And if  the Russians were wiretapping Flynn and Trump, and if Trump is pro- Russia, then why would the Russians throw Trump under the bus?  

These following articles attempt to explain some of my questions.   

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/fbi-reviewed-flynns-calls-with-russian-ambassador-but-found-nothing-illicit/2017/01/23/aa83879a-e1ae-11e6-a547-5fb9411d332c_story.html?utm_term=.2d593904079c

"The FBI in late December reviewed intercepts of communications between the Russian ambassador to the United States and retired Lt. Gen. Michael T. Flynn — national security adviser to then-President-elect Trump — but has not found any evidence of wrongdoing or illicit ties to the Russian government, U.S. officials said.

The calls were picked up as part of routine electronic surveillance of Russian officials and agents in the United States, which is one of the FBI’s responsibilities, according to the U.S. officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss counterintelligence operations."

If the FBI didn't find any evidence of wrongdoing or illicit ties to the Russian government then why did the FBI leak the information?

Then today-

"FBI director James Comey asked Justice Department to refute Trump's wiretapping claims,"

https://gma.yahoo.com/fbi-director-james-comey-asked-justice-department-refute-000254897--abc-news-topstories.html#

So, in January the FBI claims to have wiretapped the Flynn's conversations but in March the FBI asks Justice Dept to refute the wiretapping story.

Then there is this...

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/05/former-dni-james-clapper-i-can-deny-wiretap-of-trump-tower.html

"When Todd asked him whether he could confirm or deny if a FISA (Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court Act) order for this existed, Clapper declared, "I can deny it."

Asked again whether there was a FISA Court order to monitor Trump Tower, Clapper said, "Not to my knowledge."

Clapper said that if any wiretap like that occurred, he would "certainly hope" that he would be aware of it.

"I can't speak for other authorized entities in the government or a state or local entity," he added."

Later from today's same article-

"Clapper was also asked on "Meet the Press" if he had any evidence that the Trump campaign was colluding with the Russian government while the Kremlin was working to influence the election.

"Not to my knowledge," Clapper said, based on the information he had before his time in the position ended.

"We did not include anything in our report … that had any reflect of collusion between members of the Trump campaign and the Russians. There was no evidence of that included in our report," he said. "We had no evidence of such collusion."

When asked whether he still believes that Russians interfered in the U.S. election to help Donald Trump, Clapper said, "Yes, I do."

So, today the FBI and Clapper, both say they didn't wire tap.  The former Director of National Intelligence-Clapper said he has no knowledge of court orders from FISA to wire tap Trump.  The FBI and Clapper both say,  there is no evidence of collusion between Trump and the Russians.  

 









Edited by omphaloskepsis - March 06 2017 at 07:48
Back to Top
npjnpj View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: December 05 2007
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 2720
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2017 at 07:48
Because there's a difference between wire-tapping civilians and surveillance of a foreign embassy?
Back to Top
omphaloskepsis View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 19 2011
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 6341
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2017 at 08:02
Originally posted by npjnpj npjnpj wrote:

Because there's a difference between wire-tapping civilians and surveillance of a foreign embassy?

I agree there's a difference, however the FBI twice requested a FISA wire tap on Trump Towers. And the second wire tap request was granted.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/03/fbi-granted-fisa-warrant-wiretap-trump-tower-media-claims-provides-no-evidence/

"Contrary to earlier reporting in the New York Times, which cited FBI sources as saying that the agency did not believe that the private server in Donald Trump’s Trump Tower which was connected to a Russian bank had any nefarious purpose, the FBI’s counter-intelligence arm, sources say, re-drew an earlier FISA court request […].

The original FISA request which specifically named and broadly targeted Donald Trump was denied, a second request was redrafted months later which narrowed down on equipment in Trump Tower. The second request is said to have been granted, despite the fact that FBI sources did not believe these servers to be of actual national security or possess any illegal ties to Russia. The notion that this second FISA warrant was granted is highly significant as they exist to investigate cases when Foreign Intelligence is suspected of operations in the US."


Meanwhile, Two days ago-  http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/322348-top-obama-adviser-to-trump-no-president-can-order-a-wiretap

"A former policy adviser to President Obama is firing back at President Trump's claim that Obama wiretapped Trump Tower, saying it didn't happen — at least not under Obama's orders.

"No President can order a wiretap. Those restrictions were put in place to protect citizens from people like you," Ben Rhodes tweeted Saturday morning.

He also said "only a liar" could make the case, as Trump suggested, that Obama wire tapped Trump Tower ahead of the election."

According to Federal law, it would seem Ben Rhodes is wrong-

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-04/obama-advisor-rhodes-wrong-president-can-order-wiretap-and-why-trump-may-have-last-l

It would appear, however, that Rhodes is wrong, especially as pertains to matters of Foreign Intelligence Surveillance, and its associated FISA court, under which the alleged wiretap of Donald Trump would have been granted, as it pertained specifically to Trump's alleged illicit interactions with Russian entities.

"In Chapter 36 of Title 50 of the US Code *War and National Defense", Subchapter 1, Section 1802, we read the following:

(1) Notwithstanding any other law, the President, through the Attorney General, may authorize electronic surveillance without a court order under this subchapter to acquire foreign intelligence information for periods of up to one year if the Attorney General certifies in writing under oath that—

(A) the electronic surveillance is solely directed at—
(i) the acquisition of the contents of communications transmitted by means of communications used exclusively between or among foreign powers, as defined in section 1801(a)(1), (2), or (3) of this title; or
(ii) the acquisition of technical intelligence, other than the spoken communications of individuals, from property or premises under the open and exclusive control of a foreign power, as defined in section 1801(a)(1), (2), or (3) of this title;

(B) there is no substantial likelihood that the surveillance will acquire the contents of any communication to which a United States person is a party; and

(C) the proposed minimization procedures with respect to such surveillance meet the definition of minimization procedures under section 1801(h) of this title; and
if the Attorney General reports such minimization procedures and any changes thereto to the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence and the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence at least thirty days prior to their effective date, unless the Attorney General determines immediate action is required and notifies the committees immediately of such minimization procedures and the reason for their becoming effective immediately.

While (B) seems to contradict the underlying permissive nature of Section 1802 as it involves a United States person, what the Snowden affair has demonstrated all too clearly, is how frequently the NSA and FISA court would make US citizens collateral damage. To be sure, many pointed out the fact that Fox News correspondent James Rosen was notoriously wiretapped in 2013 when the DOJ was investigating government leaks. The Associated Press was also infamously wiretapped in relation to the same investigation. "





Edited by omphaloskepsis - March 06 2017 at 08:20
Back to Top
npjnpj View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: December 05 2007
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 2720
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2017 at 08:24
It's not really a matter of whether Trump Towers was.under observation, from what you say I gather that if it was, it was legal.
The point of the matter is the accusation that the surveillance was directly ordered by Obama.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 1314151617 434>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 1.188 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.