Haven't Nazi Party done any good work really?

Dean wrote: Guldbamsen wrote: DamoXt7942 wrote: Guldbamsen wrote: It is rather disconcerting to witness how some cultures seem to be completely oblivious about certain chapters of history. We should directly look to the certain chapters of history ... Indeed, even if it is a painful experience. History should preferably teach us not to replicate our mistakes, although looking at history up until now it seems as if the teachings have been rather sparsely communicated (some have even been twisted in order to make X nation feel better about themselves and their place on this blue dot in space). Unfortunately bad people try to learn from history too, and believe they can improve on it. The problem there is no group ever sees themselves as the bad guys - every zealot believes they are following a just and honourable cause and every terrorist sees themselves as a good person fighting on the side of right.

This is indeed, sadly, absolutely true. It is the reason why each and every one of us should be prepared to look at such people who promise the earth in the pursuit of such goals with cynical and untrusting minds and eyes.

Unfortunately, in recent times, the instances of such loonies inflicting themselves and their creeds on the world's populations has increased.

Dean wrote: [QUOTE=BaldJean] Well, yes and no. Between 1934 and 1945 they pretty much limited their attacks to the church and its clergy, not the people who worshipped in those churches. During that period for a German citizen (or any citizen of an occupied country), being a christian was considerably safer than being jewish. Of course had the war continued then the persecution of the (catholic) church would have spread to other churches and then all christians much as the Soviet Union had done between 1917 and 1990 (and probably with the same effect). /sorry for all the edits - it seems I need to wear my spectacles today.

His election is a source of huge satisfaction for the jews. Pope Pius XII is a well known  friend of the jews and expressed in many occasions his energetic opposition to the persecution of Jews in Italy and Germany.

(Translation done by me from Spanish, not literal)

Germany might have lost the proper war, but the extreme-left nazi ideals live on . Today, most of the allied countries are really close to what the nazi party envisioned (Mussolini followed a somewhat similar line). Franco was a right wing conservative and a religious man. Nothing to do with the other two dictators.

What was the german socialist viewpoint? (aka. main traits of @ssholes)

-German workers were exploited and greedy jews controlled the banks, the media and the arts. Also, "less skilled" immigrants (romanians, poles, gypsies) stole jobs from the germans.
-The State must control the economy and human relations in order to stop capitalism from "polluting" Germany
-Animals had more rights than some human beigns
-Most environmentally conscious regime in history.
-Expropriation of private property
-Control of the media
-Censorship and racism
-Prosecution of freethinkers and people who opposed the regime
-Love of physical activity and healthy lifestyle
-Support of atheism and pagan movements (like wicca)
etc.

The difference between the russian and german socialism was that the russians didn't care about animals or the environment, were less educated, technologically inferior, and killed entire families by the millions, whereas the nazis were too forgiving (in comparison, that is). And we know that with a high survival rate, more negative views arise. And that's a problem, since socialism is all about genocide.

Also, racism, while present, wasn't the "main point" of nazism, allied countries were extremelly racist as well. Go watch the ads, or read the testimonies of japanese survivors of american concentration camps. If the axis had won the war, they would have depicted the allies as savage racists. The main focus was expansionism and economy: capitalism and mixed economy against central planning and control.
Of couse I like the allies way more.

Today the world is way closer to nazism than libertarianism, to collectivism than individualism, to control than freedom...and I don't like it one bit. I've seen cases of people receiving fines for collecting rainwater and using solar energy...if we keep on going this way, the State might tax sunbathing and breathing.
There are many things I'd like to add, but I might get into trouble with today's thought police. Screw national socialism!

Upbeat Tango Monday wrote: extreme-left nazi

On what world is fascism remotely left?

And that's a problem, since socialism is all about genocide.

I am not sure you know anything at all about socialism.


Edited by A Person - February 06 2017 at 13:29

The T wrote: ... a relatively mild version is currently running the most powerful nation on Earth.

Upbeat Tango Monday wrote: A Person wrote: Upbeat Tango Monday wrote: extreme-left nazi On what world is fascism remotely left? And that's a problem, since socialism is all about genocide. I am not sure you know anything at all about socialism. Of course not! I'm really, really dumb and your clever arguments are sound! You've convinced me with your eloquence and intellect. I'll stop being a libertarian and join the left right now!

>libertarian
well there's the problem! no conversation necessary to be honest

Dean wrote: Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: Dean wrote: BaldJean wrote: ... Well, yes and no. Between 1934 and 1945 they pretty much limited their attacks to the church and its clergy, not the people who worshipped in those churches. During that period for a German citizen (or any citizen of an occupied country), being a christian was considerably safer than being jewish. Of course had the war continued then the persecution of the (catholic) church would have spread to other churches and then all christians much as the Soviet Union had done between 1917 and 1990 (and probably with the same effect). /sorry for all the edits - it seems I need to wear my spectacles today.  It's simpler than that. You would be safe if you were white  despite your religion...Unless you were a jew. Of course it was pretty much safer to be Catholic than Jew, but that was because the NAZI party was anti-Semitic. Being that Eugenio Paccelli was a Nuncio in Germany and loved that country, Hitler believed that he would support the Nazis, but soon found it was a mistake. Pius XI proclaimed  Non Abbiamo Bisogno (Which was written by Eugenio Paccelli), in which he condemned Fascism (1931). In 1937 followed Mit Brennender Sorge (Also written by Pacelli), which condemned racial persecution. Hitler believed that when Paccelli was elected, the things would change, but as soon a he was elected, he proclaimed Summi Pontificatus where he attacked racism and totalitarian governments. The news were not good for Hitler Jewish Views and News Published in April 1939 His election is a source of huge satisfaction for the jews. Pope Pius XII is a well known  friend of the jews and expressed in many occasions his energetic opposition to the persecution of Jews in Italy and Germany. (Translation done by me from Spanish, not literal) The Rabbi of Romania spoke publicly in favour of Pius and that's when the harassment against Catholics started. According to David Dalin (American Rabbi) 6,000 Catholics (Piests, nuns and simple Catholics) were slaughtered for hiding Jews, according to him 860,000 Jews were saved by orders of Pius. Hitler already knew that the Catholic Church wouldn't support him, so in 1934 he took the Evangelische Deutsche Kirche and named Nazi leader Ludwig Muller as Reichbishop...Of course he had strong opposition from Lutherans who were not Nazis, but it was too late, Hitler had control of his Reich Church. But as you say, sooner or later, Hitler would get rid of all Christians Well, some of them perhaps, but certainly not "all christians". In the Soviet Union between 12-20 million christians were "got rid of" over a 70 year period, the rest of the christian population (which was most of them - 80% of the population was christian prior to the revolution) simply kept quiet or just wrote "none" on official forms. The same thing would have happened in Germany as even a party of completely deranged lunatics would not wipe-out 80% of their own population.

you forgot to mention the Reichskonkordat, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichskonkordat), Dean, which was signed 4 years before "Mit brennender Sorge". Rolf Hochhuth's play "Der Stellvertreter. Ein christlisches Trauerspiel" ("The Deputy. A Christian Tragedy") from 1963, one of the most important German plays of the 20th century, is all about Pius XI and especially the Reichskonkordat


Edited by BaldJean - February 06 2017 at 14:33

Hitler prodded Ferdinand Porsche to design and build the Volkswagen Beetle. That's little compensation, I'm afraid.

Edited by SteveG - February 06 2017 at 14:56

BaldJean wrote: you forgot to mention the Reichskonkordat, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichskonkordat), Dean, which was signed 4 years before "Mit brennender Sorge". Rolf Hochhuth's play "Der Stellvertreter. Ein christlisches Trauerspiel" ("The Deputy. A Christian Tragedy") from 1963, one of the most important German plays of the 20th century, is all about Pius XI and especially the Reichskonkordat

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - February 06 2017 at 16:44

BaldJean wrote: Dean wrote: Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: Dean wrote: BaldJean wrote: ... Well, yes and no. Between 1934 and 1945 they pretty much limited their attacks to the church and its clergy, not the people who worshipped in those churches. During that period for a German citizen (or any citizen of an occupied country), being a christian was considerably safer than being jewish. Of course had the war continued then the persecution of the (catholic) church would have spread to other churches and then all christians much as the Soviet Union had done between 1917 and 1990 (and probably with the same effect). /sorry for all the edits - it seems I need to wear my spectacles today.  It's simpler than that. You would be safe if you were white  despite your religion...Unless you were a jew. Of course it was pretty much safer to be Catholic than Jew, but that was because the NAZI party was anti-Semitic. Being that Eugenio Paccelli was a Nuncio in Germany and loved that country, Hitler believed that he would support the Nazis, but soon found it was a mistake. Pius XI proclaimed  Non Abbiamo Bisogno (Which was written by Eugenio Paccelli), in which he condemned Fascism (1931). In 1937 followed Mit Brennender Sorge (Also written by Pacelli), which condemned racial persecution. Hitler believed that when Paccelli was elected, the things would change, but as soon a he was elected, he proclaimed Summi Pontificatus where he attacked racism and totalitarian governments. The news were not good for Hitler Jewish Views and News Published in April 1939 His election is a source of huge satisfaction for the jews. Pope Pius XII is a well known  friend of the jews and expressed in many occasions his energetic opposition to the persecution of Jews in Italy and Germany. (Translation done by me from Spanish, not literal) The Rabbi of Romania spoke publicly in favour of Pius and that's when the harassment against Catholics started. According to David Dalin (American Rabbi) 6,000 Catholics (Piests, nuns and simple Catholics) were slaughtered for hiding Jews, according to him 860,000 Jews were saved by orders of Pius. Hitler already knew that the Catholic Church wouldn't support him, so in 1934 he took the Evangelische Deutsche Kirche and named Nazi leader Ludwig Muller as Reichbishop...Of course he had strong opposition from Lutherans who were not Nazis, but it was too late, Hitler had control of his Reich Church. But as you say, sooner or later, Hitler would get rid of all Christians Well, some of them perhaps, but certainly not "all christians". In the Soviet Union between 12-20 million christians were "got rid of" over a 70 year period, the rest of the christian population (which was most of them - 80% of the population was christian prior to the revolution) simply kept quiet or just wrote "none" on official forms. The same thing would have happened in Germany as even a party of completely deranged lunatics would not wipe-out 80% of their own population. you forgot to mention the Reichskonkordat, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichskonkordat), Dean, which was signed 4 years before "Mit brennender Sorge". Rolf Hochhuth's play "Der Stellvertreter. Ein christlisches Trauerspiel" ("The Deputy. A Christian Tragedy") from 1963, one of the most important German plays of the 20th century, is all about Pius XI and especially the Reichskonkordat