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Kingsnake 
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 Posted: September 16 2016 at 09:08 |
 chopper wrote:
BJH are a bit of an enigma for me. "Once Again" is in my top 10 prog albums of all time, possibly top 10 of all albums. It's just a wonderful album from start to finish. I have listened to some of their other albums and never got the same feeling from any of them. I will persevere but so far they're a bit of a one album band for me. |
My first guess is, you should stick with their "harvest'-years. They were the most symphonic in those years. There are four Harvest-albums (the first four). On top of that, their first Polydor album was a double sided live album (simply called Live), that is comprised of songs from their first four albums. The songs have a more expanded and rock-feel to it. Maybe the period 1974-1978 can be interesting. The music is more a kind of soft classic rock with pseudo-symphonic elements. Quite atmospheric and romantic. Their most progressive album of that period is Octoberon, wich has almost anything a prog-enthousiast will enjoy. When you're not into Barclay James Harvest that much, you should avoid anything after 1978. After that is mostly soft-pop, middle-of-the-road AOR. Still likeable to me, though. For the symphonic-enthousiast I can really recommend the latest John Lees' Barclay James Harvest album North.
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kenethlevine
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Posted: September 18 2016 at 19:41 |
Kingsnake wrote:
chopper wrote:
BJH are a bit of an enigma for me. "Once Again" is in my top 10 prog albums of all time, possibly top 10 of all albums. It's just a wonderful album from start to finish. I have listened to some of their other albums and never got the same feeling from any of them. I will persevere but so far they're a bit of a one album band for me. |
My first guess is, you should stick with their "harvest'-years. They were the most symphonic in those years. There are four Harvest-albums (the first four). On top of that, their first Polydor album was a double sided live album (simply called Live), that is comprised of songs from their first four albums. The songs have a more expanded and rock-feel to it. Maybe the period 1974-1978 can be interesting. The music is more a kind of soft classic rock with pseudo-symphonic elements. Quite atmospheric and romantic. Their most progressive album of that period is Octoberon, wich has almost anything a prog-enthousiast will enjoy. When you're not into Barclay James Harvest that much, you should avoid anything after 1978. After that is mostly soft-pop, middle-of-the-road AOR. Still likeable to me, though. For the symphonic-enthousiast I can really recommend the latest John Lees' Barclay James Harvest album North. |
nice summation 
Note that the Live album from 1974 includes material from albums 2-5, album 5 being the first Polydor release "Everyone is Everybody's Else". As such it's an excellent option for someone who has only gotten into "Once Again".
I agree with your opinion of North. Some really strong stuff there
Edited by kenethlevine - September 18 2016 at 19:43
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Kingsnake
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Posted: September 19 2016 at 01:19 |
You know. It's been a long time since I played Live. I didn't even remember there were songs from Everyone is Everybody Else on it. But that even adds to the beauty, because that's a stellar album, with the magnificent Child of the Universe and For No One.
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Matti
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Posted: September 19 2016 at 03:16 |
Once Again is my favourite, but I also appreciate the mid/late 70's era ( Gone to Earth etc). North is indeed surprisingly good. BTW, does any of you know what the list of alphabets (abbreviations or whatever they are) in the song 'In Wonderland' means? (My promo copy doesn't contain lyrics, nor did I find the lyrics in the net, otherwise I'd write the alphabets here.)
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Kingsnake
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Posted: September 19 2016 at 03:52 |
Matti wrote:
Once Again is my favourite, but I also appreciate the mid/late 70's era (Gone to Earth etc). North is indeed surprisingly good. BTW, does any of you know what the list of alphabets (abbreviations or whatever they are) in the song 'In Wonderland' means? (My promo copy doesn't contain lyrics, nor did I find the lyrics in the net, otherwise I'd write the alphabets here.) |
I will play the record later today and will pay close attention. Maybe I can answer your question.
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kenethlevine
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Posted: September 19 2016 at 08:30 |
Kingsnake wrote:
You know. It's been a long time since I played Live.I didn't even remember there were songs from Everyone is Everybody Else on it.But that even adds to the beauty, because that's a stellar album, with the magnificent Child of the Universe and For No One. |
Unfortunately Child of the Universe is not on "Live". There is an excellent version on "Live Tapes", the next live album. I'm guessing that, at the time of "Live", Child had not yet attained classic status
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Kingsnake
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Posted: September 19 2016 at 08:44 |
Now that we're discussing Child of the Universe.
I find it interesting that John Lees never was satisfied with the end result of the song. As such, there are dozens of versions of the song. There is the album version, the John Lees soloversion, 3 or 4 radio versions and the different live versions. The liveversions are always different to the original albumversion.
I like the John Lees soloversion the best. With extended pianosolo and orchestra.
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kenethlevine
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Posted: September 19 2016 at 20:29 |
Kingsnake wrote:
Now that we're discussing Child of the Universe.
I find it interesting that John Lees never was satisfied with the end result of the song. As such, there are dozens of versions of the song. There is the album version, the John Lees soloversion, 3 or 4 radio versions and the different live versions. The liveversions are always different to the original albumversion.
I like the John Lees soloversion the best. With extended pianosolo and orchestra. |
I'm still going with the original. The combination of piano and synth showed that the band was thinking outside the box, and it sounds great. The guitar solo at the end, like so many on EIEE, is dripping with emotion. But I do like the Live Tapes version alot, especially for the outtro again, with Wolstenholme playing a new melody on keys before Lees chimes in
I had the John Lees' solo album but it was just too funky for me. Sadly I sold it and I only kept one song, "Untitled Number 3", which sounds the most like BJH.
edit: whoa, I just found John Lees' "A Major Fancy" on spotify, including bonus tracks, one of which is Eagles "Best of My love". We had already seen the BJH love for the Eagles on "poor Boy Blues" and "Mill Boys" as well as the lead solo on "Rock n Roll Star"
Edited by kenethlevine - September 19 2016 at 20:33
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Kingsnake
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Posted: September 20 2016 at 01:16 |
Yeah. John Lees really was the most diverse songwriter, from folk to rock to blues to country to boogie to ballads and even heavy metal on Face to Face. I like that on Everyone is Everybody Else, the songs Poor Boy Blues and Mill Boys are strung together and share the same melodies. In that sight, it's almost one song written together. And that's rare, for Les and John to write together.
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kenethlevine
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Posted: September 20 2016 at 08:38 |
Kingsnake wrote:
Yeah. John Lees really was the most diverse songwriter, from folk to rock to blues to country to boogie to ballads and even heavy metal on Face to Face. I like that on Everyone is Everybody Else, the songs Poor Boy Blues and Mill Boys are strung together and share the same melodies. In that sight, it's almost one song written together. And that's rare, for Les and John to write together. |
The democracy in early BJH slowly faded. On the first couple of albums, most songs were credited to the whole group, and most vocals were handled by Woolly, regardless of who wrote the song. Mockingbird is a good example, which Lees has claimed as his but which seemed like a group effort. Increasingly after, the albums became duels between the pop oriented Holroyd and the folkier, more lyrically deep Lees. I thought that sometimes this split worked well, but especially in the 1980s and 1990s, it highlighted the weakening of the material offered by both. In some ways Holroyd became the more interesting, especially on albums like "Turn of the Tide", where Lees seemed to want to go hard rock and Holroyd embraced the synth pop.
I have always enjoyed the trio of Poor Boy Blues, Mill Boys and For No one. The first two cleverly blend melodies and the third is just what's needed at that moment.
BJH don't get a lot of respect around here especially among those seeking more "challenging" prog. Some have even expressed surprise that they are here, even though they have always been associated with the prog movement. What irks me is when bands like Supertramp, who are arguably more light and pop oriented than BJH, seem to be so idolized here
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Kingsnake
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Posted: September 20 2016 at 09:48 |
I don't even have to discuss wether BJH deserves a place here.
Long ago, when the term progressive rock didn't exist, we learned that symphonic rock was 'pop' or 'rock' music infusing elements of classical music. BJH fits perfectly into symphonic rock, as are Moody Blues, Sky, The Nice, Ekseption etc.
Maybe BJH never explored polyrhythms or disonants but they perfectly knew how to mix classical music, poetry and rockmusic.
When the seventies were over and BJH hit it big, with middle of the road-pop, they were less of a symphonic rockband, but neither were The Moodies, etc,
BJH is very underrated in that matter, and maybe dismissed too soon.
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kenethlevine
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Posted: September 20 2016 at 10:01 |
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I do remember the local university station in Ottawa, in 1979, had a DJ who so loved BJH that he was sometimes called "Barclay James Grainger". He began every show with "Song for You" off Time Honoured Ghosts. When XII came out they did a big feature on it, and talked about how BJH was often the target of critics. The other DJ referred to BJH as an excellent progressive rock band. So the term was definitely in use at that time. Unfortunately, their Euro success in the 1980s was not duplicated at all in North America, where they remained best known, if at all, for their 1974-1977 period. I would have been quite happy if they had achieved success here on any terms. What they did was no worse a sell out than many who struck it big in that decade.
Edited by kenethlevine - September 20 2016 at 10:03
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Kingsnake
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Posted: September 20 2016 at 10:51 |
Okay, I'm not sure how the genre was defined in other countries.
In The Netherlands we had the Oor Pop encyclopedia. There they had the genre Symphonic Rock (with Queen, BJH, Saga, Rush, King Crimson, Gentle Giant, Eloy, Camel, Pink Floyd) all thrown in together.
That's how I discovered a lot of bands.
I started out with Queen, Saga, Camel and BJH, by the way. 4 totally different but excellent prog-acts.
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maryes
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Posted: September 25 2016 at 10:34 |
My preferfence order: 1- B J Harvest 2- Once Again 3- Everyone is .... 4- Octoberon
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Pennsylvanian
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Posted: October 04 2016 at 16:59 |
I picked up "Everybody is Everybody Else" vinyl a few months ago. I enjoy most of it... particularly "Paper Wings" and the closing trilogy "Mill Boys", etc. "For No One" is particularly powerful.
Where should I go from here?
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kenethlevine
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Posted: October 04 2016 at 17:09 |
Pennsylvanian wrote:
I picked up "Everybody is Everybody Else" vinyl a few months ago. I enjoy most of it... particularly "Paper Wings" and the closing trilogy "Mill Boys", etc. "For No One" is particularly powerful.
Where should I go from here? |
I think maybe the album just called "Live" from 1974. This has quite a few songs originally on the album you have as well as a few of the classics from Harvest. If you like those, try "Once Again". If you like the Everyone is Everybody Else tracks especially, go with Octoberon.
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Kingsnake
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Posted: January 30 2017 at 02:23 |
Been listening to the difficult 80's albums of Barclay James Harvest today: - Turn of the Tide - Ring of Changes - Victims of Cirumstance - Face to Face I think the albums have their moments, especially the John Lees-songs. But it's mostly 2 or 3 songs per album that are nice. The ballads are mostly terrible. At least that's what I think. With Ring of Changes I have the felling they tried to copy Long Distance Voyager by the Moody Blues (same producer).
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Kingsnake
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Posted: January 30 2017 at 02:25 |
Pennsylvanian wrote:
I picked up "Everybody is Everybody Else" vinyl a few months ago. I enjoy most of it... particularly "Paper Wings" and the closing trilogy "Mill Boys", etc. "For No One" is particularly powerful.
Where should I go from here? |
Time Honoured Ghosts, Octoberon, Gone to Earth and XII are all great mid-70's albums with that folky feeling. You can;t go wrong with these albums. Less mellotronthan their Harvest-albums, but still very high standard soft-prog.
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Cosmiclawnmower
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Posted: February 02 2017 at 14:54 |
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I first heard BJH on 'Live' around 1974 (courtesy of my older brother); i was struck by what a powerful, melodic and direct sound they had. Then it was 'Time honoured Ghosts' and 'Everyone is Everybody else' and the 4 Harvest lps. I saw them first in 79 and again in 82. I lost touch with them (had a family so lost touch with lots of things!) until 2002 when John Lees and Woolly Wolstenholme took the BJH legacy out on the road. The Buxton opera house gig which was going to be a '40th anniversary of 'Once again' but became a tribute to the life of Woolly Wolstenholme was possibly one of the most moving and emotional concerts ive ever been to. Ive seen JLBJH about 12 times since and i just enjoy their warm, personal and generous spirited concerts and long may they continue.
If you can, try and hear the 1977 live version of 'Medicine man' which was originally released as a 7'' 33rpm EP with a live version of 'Rock n roll Star' which pre-dates the 'Live tapes' lp. Although its a slightly rough recording, its the heaviest BJH you will ever with some of the best guitar solos you will ever hear from John Lees.
I think that BJH along with the Moody Blues and Procul Harum, created in the late 60s a particular type of pastoral, symphonic proto prog, which was certainly informed by psychedelia and the Beatles and precursor for King Crimson's first lp. I think that is why, for some, it is passed up as 'not being Prog'. Elbow (in their early days) spoke about early BJH (as well as being fellow lancastrians) and Trespass era Genesis being big influences on their sound.
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ProcolWho?
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Posted: May 12 2017 at 23:20 |
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In Search Of England
Always thought that was an amazing track.
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Barclay James Harvest appreciation thread.